Liberty Domination Walkthrough

Moriarte said:
Well, it gives you gold if you settle on top, don't it? :D In the end of the day, that extra +5g (including modifiers) per turn from single gold tile is compared to a 10 turn earlier settler/worker/granary/archer or whatever, not to mention extra gold when most needed, during first 30 turns.. Might be worth it. Especially on deity. I usually end up with 400+ gpt, so.. I see your argument though.
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I thought BNW changed it so you didn't get credit for settling right on top a lux?
 
The downside to settling on the lux is the same as always - you don't get the extra gold from improving the lux. Since gold is in short supply early in the game, ...
 
Browd said:
The downside to settling on the lux is the same as always - you don't get the extra gold from improving the lux. Since gold is in short supply early in the game, ...
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I rarely work mines before turn 100, or even later. Prefer plains farms, pastures, plantations, lumber mills (something with food). With exception of Salt, of course. So one can skip settling on it, but will future extra spoils outweigh immediate +2 gold during first 100 turns?
 
That is definitely the way to think about it. I prefer settling on luxuries where I'm not confident I will actually work the improved luxury tile continuously. If I settle on the lux, I am guaranteed to get that lux's raw gold yield (e.g., 2 gold) every turn for the rest of the game, while giving up the extra gold and, if mined, future extra hammers, whereas if I settled next to that lux and took worker turns to improve it, I might only work that tile intermittently, or in the case of a desert incense tile, maybe never.
 
For non-Tradition starts, that's probably a good idea - I like the thought about an intermittent working tile to settle upon. Hadn't done that so I didn't know that it would be a 2/2/2 city tile.
 
But other considerations include, do you have a spare worker to improve the lux, how long will it take to improve it, and how consistently will you work the lux tile throughout the game?
 
Thanks for posting this - great guide. Haven't tried it on Deity yet but it's been a great help on Immortal, I'll probably make the step up soon. A couple of questions:

I notice you said one of the civs you tested this with was Sweden. Are they a viable domination civ now? And if so, is that mainly because of Caroleans? How many Caroleans would you build, and how would you promote them? I usually go straight for March with melee units, but since they start with March I guess you would go for a different promotion. Medic, maybe? Or Blitz? Or something else entirely?
 
Killeritch said:
Thanks for posting this - great guide. Haven't tried it on Deity yet but it's been a great help on Immortal, I'll probably make the step up soon. A couple of questions:

I notice you said one of the civs you tested this with was Sweden. Are they a viable domination civ now? And if so, is that mainly because of Caroleans? How many Caroleans would you build, and how would you promote them? I usually go straight for March with melee units, but since they start with March I guess you would go for a different promotion. Medic, maybe? Or Blitz? Or something else entirely?
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Sweden has been a top-tier warmongering Civ since G&K release. You fight on the ocean, you fight on land, and you take the extra great generals and admirals and feed them to your CS allies. I war all game with them and don't take any cities (less warmonger hit) and just bully people for chunks of GPT in peace deals, diplomatic relation boosts, and to get experienced units. Now you can take your excess great musicians (read: all of them) and feed them to your city state allies as well.

Caroleans are really strong, and I think that a mix of two drill/cover to one medic is about right. Melee in general in Civ 5 benefit tons from cover promotions. Sure if you can do some kind of crazy XP wonder/building stacking that's a plus, but in general on Deity I usually will only have armories in my production cities when I get rifling.
 
I second Fragamemnon: gift your generals and you will have CS alliances right when and where you need them. I like gifting GG's to cultural CS. Helps you blast through opening policies, rationalism, or whatever, while constantly warring.

I don't use many infantry based units during my games, prefer the knight line, but i imagine double cover march rifles are pretty solid.
 
Huh, I never thought about them like that - had them as a predominantly Diplo civ. Thanks! I'll have to give that a try.
 
I did a game with Darius tonight and timing the composite bow upgrades with the Representation Golden Age felt completely broken. I am used to playing Persia as Tradition but man I felt so invincible I forward settled right into Mongolia and took his capital while he was off bullying a CS as Mongolia generally does at that point in a game.

If he had all of his units around it wouldn't have mattered much. Three move buffed composite bows are absurd at the turns it happens in a game.
 
Very nice write up, Moriarte! I am a Liberty player since G&K, and I was familiar with some parts of the strategy, but I have one question: do you have any math on using the Liberty finisher for GE and rush NC vs using it for GS and planting an academy?
 
Blitz Spearman said:
Very nice write up, Moriarte! I am a Liberty player since G&K, and I was familiar with some parts of the strategy, but I have one question: do you have any math on using the Liberty finisher for GE and rush NC vs using it for GS and planting an academy?
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I think it depends on terrain. If you choose between these two you should consider timings too. Let's say it's turn 80 now: you have good terrain (NC < 13 turns), you plant an academy and hard build NC. You have bad terrain (NC in 22 turns): you rush NC and forget about academy. (and build a caravan for science)

Then again, you can skip that academy altogether and burn GE on oracle, that will allow you to open consulates 20 turns earlier. That alone outweighs early academy.

I don't have precise maths for all possible scenarios for you, but i think, early snowballing is the most important thing and you can be choosing something, that allows to boost early science. Early science will get you universities earlier, and so on.
 
A really good case for getting a GS from the liberty finisher is when you only expanded once due to aggressive AI settling and then have one puppet + three base cities after an early rush. Often NC will be cheap enough then w/ a decent start to just hard build it.

Oracle to get faster Consulates is (as mentioned) usually a better play when it is available. Even if you aren't on a Pangaea. The amount of free happiness/culture/units/food for the rest of the game is just too powerful
 
How about jungle starts with calendar resource under jungle ?

Had an attempt earlier and decided to settle on a hill near mountain with sea access..

50 turns in became quite apparent giving up the hill, mountain and sea access might have been worth it for just settling on top of that calendar resource ... (allowing to bypass iron working (delays NC) and gain like 20 turns on connecting that lux research/chop/improve )

Calendar resource under jungle for capital is such a huge handicap ... (other luxury was pearls - sailing + hammers for boat )... Chopping jungles should give like 50 hammers per tile or (20 hammers 20 beakers) and jungle starts would still suck :)
 
peddroelm said:
How about jungle starts with calendar resource under jungle ?

Had an attempt earlier and decided to settle on a hill near mountain with sea access..

50 turns in became quite apparent giving up the hill, mountain and sea access might have been worth it for just settling on top of that calendar resource ... (allowing to bypass iron working (delays NC) and gain like 20 turns on connecting that lux research/chop/improve )

Calendar resource under jungle for capital is such a huge handicap ... (other luxury was pearls - sailing + hammers for boat )... Chopping jungles should give like 50 hammers per tile or (20 hammers 20 beakers) and jungle starts would still suck :)
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Agreed, most jungle starts are sub-par. I guess you have to detour to bronze, detour to trapping, calendar or whatever, if it needs to be done. In the end, you will have that GE for NC to compensate for early development, plus, once you hit universities there will be another small bonus.

If you accept such start, you should accept slower snowballing too. I believe there is no way around.

Archers should be able to fulfill some quests to keep the happiness up, so, maybe, settling on hill near a mountain wasn't such a bad idea, strategically.
 
Moriarte said:
Agreed, most jungle starts are sub-par. If you accept such start, you should accept slower snowballing too. I believe there is no way around.
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The only way to counter a bit this problem is to force yourself on settling on luxs ''at all cost''. Since domination is the main goal of this thread, i think that it's pretty relevant.
 
Jungle starts? Makes me want to try an Amazon map. I wonder if the AI still undertakes a 20-turn journey to fight a war...
 
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