Music and profanity

Hygro

Hygro

soundcloud.com/hygro/
Joined
Dec 1, 2002
Messages
26,275
Location
California
May we please relax the profanity rules for media? A lot of the more advanced mediums of discourse today employ profanity. It sucks to be discussing hip hop, for example, and meanwhile get infracted for linking to the primary sources. I think OT will be positively energized if we can link things that happen to contain profanity.
 
Hygro said:
May we please relax the profanity rules for media? A lot of the more advanced mediums of discourse today employ profanity. It sucks to be discussing hip hop, for example, and meanwhile get infracted for linking in the primary sources. I think OT will be positively energized if we can link things that happen to contain profanity.
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The same applies to nudity in art. It's kind of ridiculous.
 
Hygro said:
May we please relax the profanity rules for media? A lot of the more advanced mediums of discourse today employ profanity. It sucks to be discussing hip hop, for example, and meanwhile get infracted for linking to the primary sources. I think OT will be positively energized if we can link things that happen to contain profanity.
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It's one thing if it's a discussion of music or writing that uses such language. But I did not appreciate the profanity that showed up in a video someone posted in my Cosmos thread, which was meant to be a serious thread about a science documentary series. The video was nothing more than spam - that contained the 'F' word, in disrespectful mockery of Carl Sagan.
 
Valka D'Ur said:
It's one thing if it's a discussion of music or writing that uses such language. But I did not appreciate the profanity that showed up in a video someone posted in my Cosmos thread, which was meant to be a serious thread about a science documentary series. The video was nothing more than spam - that contained the 'F' word, in disrespectful mockery of Carl Sagan.
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We aren't talking about your Cosmos thread. We are talking about videos (and images) which use profanity (and nudity) in a very specific context for purely academic discussion.
 
Owen Glyndwr said:
We aren't talking about your Cosmos thread. We are talking about videos (and images) which use profanity (and nudity) in a very specific context for purely academic discussion.
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You may not be talking about my Cosmos thread, but I am. :huh: And every other thread that could get derailed or wrecked because someone decides to post a video containing profanity "because the rules say I can" - and not necessarily because doing so would further the discussion as set out by the OP.

I would support this ONLY if such permission were limited to the aforementioned primary source videos, and only if the OP sets out some guidelines as to profanity/no profanity or nudity/no nudity AND if any thread allowing it were Red Diamond so they are subject to stricter moderation.

Keep in mind that nude images are already allowed in A&E, if they are not gratuitous and further the discussion in an academic way (ie. Renaissance or Classical era art and/or statuary).
 
Unlike a piece of text in which the profanity is loaded and viewable automatically, you have to make a conscious effort to press "play" on a youtube video and listen to it. I think that this, coupled with the requirement for good faith discussion of artistic merit, makes it acceptable.
 
Mise said:
Unlike a piece of text in which the profanity is loaded and viewable automatically, you have to make a conscious effort to press "play" on a youtube video and listen to it. I think that this, coupled with the requirement for good faith discussion of artistic merit, makes it acceptable.
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And how are you to know the video contains profanity unless you watch it? Are you proposing that anyone posting such a video be required to post a "NSFW" warning?
 
Yes of course, that should be mandatory. NSFW warnings are commonplace on the internet now anyway, so nothing people haven't come across before.
 
How do you think the mods should deal with people who don't post the NSFW warning? If it were a 100% enforced rule, that would go a long way to settling my objections.
 
Keep in mind that nude images are already allowed in A&E, if they are not gratuitous and further the discussion in an academic way (ie. Renaissance or Classical era art and/or statuary).
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That's all fine and dandy, but you do still get infracted for them in OT. I don't go to A&E for reasons I've already made abundantly clear in other threads.
 
Do you think nudity should be allowed in the Babe threads?
 
Valka D'Ur said:
Do you think nudity should be allowed in the Babe threads?
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Want me to answer that one? ;)
(Short answer, "No". But, there's other admins and we all have to come to a consensus)
 
I for one neither want nor am asking for nudity in the babe thread. Owen's addendum is reasonable and closely related, but let's not get completely off topic here. NSFV alerts should be sufficient, yeah? :hammer:
 
Chieftess said:
Want me to answer that one? ;)
(Short answer, "No". But, there's other admins and we all have to come to a consensus)
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Hygro said:
I for one neither want nor am asking for nudity in the babe thread. Owen's addendum is reasonable and closely related, but let's not get completely off topic here. NSFV alerts should be sufficient, yeah? :hammer:
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I'm just as happy that nudity not be allowed in the Babe threads and hope that rule is not changed.

But you will get people pointing out that different rules apply in different areas of the forum. You can post pictures of naked people in A&E as long as it's art, but this is not, to my knowledge, allowed in OT.

Since Hygro and Owen are basing their arguments on art, why not have the same rule - it's allowed in A&E, but not in OT?

This would prevent the argument some people might be tempted to make that (for example) "why can't I post a video making fun of Cosmos that includes the word "<snip>? It's ART!!!!"
Moderator Action: Come on Valka, you know better than that. Even if it was an example, don't use swear words as long as its' against the forum rules.
And how would the one-click rule factor into this? What would be the difference between a video showing nudity and my posting a link to a fanfiction page where some of the illustrations happen to include characters who are nude?
 
Please note that the forum rules (specifically the section on 'what is not allowed', including the 'inappropriate content' and 'inappropriate language' sub-sections) have been altered. The biggest change, and the change most relevant to this thread, is to 'inappropriate language':
Inappropriate Language
Our basic philosophy is that there is nothing that anyone needs to say on our forums that requires them to swear/cuss. If you can't get your point across without swearing, you will be infracted.

This forum is considered a family-friendly forum. We have an autocensor which will automatically remove many swear/cuss/bad words, but not necessarily all. Just because a word isn&#8217;t caught by the autocensor, doesn&#8217;t give you permission to use it. Do not rely on the autocensor to do your thinking for you. Finding ways to get around the ban on swearing or using foul language may result in an infraction.

If you intentionally bypass the autocensor (i.e. using various tricks so that the autocensor does not remove your word) and the meaning / intent of the word can be easily interpreted, you will be infracted. You may use a string of symbols such as #!%&*#@ to express yourself, as long as no specific meaning can be derived from the combination of symbols or how the symbols fit with the English language text around it.

Acceptable:
  • $%&$#@*#^ [note that in acceptable use, there is no surrounding context from which the precise meaning of the symbols can be inferred, just symbols]

Not acceptable:
  • *%#&you!
  • You $ ^ * @ # ( $ % bastard
  • How can you be so %#&*@# stupid?
Etc.​

These language rules also apply to words in pictures and quotes, and words in non-English languages. However, although we generally operate with a one-click rule (see above), an exception exists for some forms of inappropriate language. You may link to a website or page containing inappropriate language, so long as it is not gratuitous or completely out of step with the family-friendly nature of the forums. Gratuitousness will be determined by the moderators on a case by case basis, but as a general guide, any inappropriate language should be incidental to the linked content, or in keeping with a spirit of civil and productive discussion.

Any link to a website or page containing inappropriate language must clearly be marked as 'NSFW'. Failure to mark the link in such a way will result in the application of the standard one-click rule.

This 'inappropriate language exception' to the one-click rule extends to embedded videos, and images placed within spoiler tags.

Although you may link to content containing inappropriate language, you may not post a quote containing any inappropriate language; the text of your post must still be free of inappropriate language.

Moderators may choose to simply delete posts or warn for minor offences (depending on context) rather than infract. People who insist on pushing the boundaries or moderation patience will not get such leniency. Severe offences may result in an immediate ban. Posters who find inappropriate language in a post are encouraged to report the post.
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Questions: Can people who post the OP of a thread request that no videos or images with inappropriate language be allowed?

Are these rules enforced differently for Red Diamond and non-Red Diamond threads?
 
Valka D'Ur said:
Questions: Can people who post the OP of a thread request that no videos or images with inappropriate language be allowed?

Are these rules enforced differently for Red Diamond and non-Red Diamond threads?
Click to expand...

The general forum rules relating to inappropriate content and inappropriate language continue to apply to OT, and operate equally for RD and non-RD threads. OT departs from the general forum rules in relation to other matters such as trolling. However, given one of the factors on which a video containing inappropriate language may be judged is whether it is in keeping with civil and productive discussion, the topics found in OT may be more amenable to such videos than e.g. the Civ5 forums. A thread involving music is more likely to civilly and productively involve a video containing inappropriate language than a thread about a Tradition starting strategy.

OPs do not 'own' threads, and as such, cannot lay down a set of rules different to the forum rules, and expect them to be enforced by the moderators. In some cases the moderators might agree with the OP that a particular rule would be beneficial for a thread, but that rule is only imbued with the force of the law (so to speak) following a moderator action indicating as such. You can certainly request that users refrain from posting videos containing inappropriate content, but if a video containing inappropriate appears, it will be judged according to the forum rules. Of course, if someone deliberately does something an OP has told them not to do, that might possibly be trolling, depending on the particulars.
 
Camikaze said:
The general forum rules relating to inappropriate content and inappropriate language continue to apply to OT, and operate equally for RD and non-RD threads. OT departs from the general forum rules in relation to other matters such as trolling. However, given one of the factors on which a video containing inappropriate language may be judged is whether it is in keeping with civil and productive discussion, the topics found in OT may be more amenable to such videos than e.g. the Civ5 forums. A thread involving music is more likely to civilly and productively involve a video containing inappropriate language than a thread about a Tradition starting strategy.

OPs do not 'own' threads, and as such, cannot lay down a set of rules different to the forum rules, and expect them to be enforced by the moderators. In some cases the moderators might agree with the OP that a particular rule would be beneficial for a thread, but that rule is only imbued with the force of the law (so to speak) following a moderator action indicating as such. You can certainly request that users refrain from posting videos containing inappropriate content, but if a video containing inappropriate appears, it will be judged according to the forum rules. Of course, if someone deliberately does something an OP has told them not to do, that might possibly be trolling, depending on the particulars.
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I don't care about the Civ forums. People rarely post videos of any kind there, and I don't need a lecture on things I've known for years, thank you.

In other words, if I were to post an OP on a topic I would like taken seriously (ie. a science documentary series) and someone posts a video that's trollish, spammy, contains inappropriate language (one or any of them in combination), the moderators might take action if they deem it inappropriate, and who cares about the OP's opinion.

Got it.
 
Valka D'Ur said:
In other words, if I were to post an OP on a topic I would like taken seriously (ie. a science documentary series) and someone posts a video that's trollish, spammy, contains inappropriate language (one or any of them in combination), the moderators might take action if they deem it inappropriate, and who cares about the OP's opinion.
.
Click to expand...

As much as I loathe defending board policy on anything, wouldn't a video tagged NSFW that adds nothing be swept up under existing anti-trolling/spam rules anyway?
 
This thread actually reminds me of somewhat of a corner case sometime back on the Apolyton forums before the Civ2 Scenario League moved here. One member posted a link for a zipped Civ2 scenario but, parcelled within was an oddly named video file. It turned out to be a graphic porn clip. He said it was an accident, but it did cause quite the uproar nonetheless.
 
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