"Our words are backed by nuclear weapons!"

Thunderfall · Oct 15, 2005

PriestOfDiscord said:
-Why is The Manhattan Project a great wonder? That simply makes no sense whatsoever when you have a national wonder game mechanic.

Actually, there is a new category in Civ4 called "Projects", and The Manhattan Project is one of them. Spaceship parts, Internet, SDI, etc are also projects in Civ4. The Manhattan Project is a World Project, while most other projects are team projects.

Lord_all_Mighty · Oct 15, 2005

Thunderfall said:
Actually, there is a new category in Civ4 called "Projects", and The Manhattan Project is one of them. Spaceship parts, Internet, SDI, etc are also projects in Civ4. The Manhattan Project is a World Project, while most other projects are team projects.

So what distinguishes them from great wonders?

Thunderfall · Oct 15, 2005

The main difference is projects can't be rushed, but wonders can be (if you have the right civic, like Universal Suffrage allows you to spend gold to rush production).

Aussie_Lurker · Oct 15, 2005

In which case, The Manhattan Project should DEFINITELY be a National project, IMHO! Just so long as its do-able (as I am certain it is) then I will be happy.
BTW, TF, are you aware if it is possible to have other factors cause Global Warming? I still want Global Warming to be a result of run-away pollution!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

SirTristan · Oct 15, 2005

In regards to the UN resolution, I wonder if you vote against it but the resolution still passes if you can build nukes, like Iran for instance.

Also it'd be great if there was a START resolution (Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty), so the amount of nuclear weapons can be decreased- not just a resolution that simply bans building them.

Vael · Oct 15, 2005

Melendwyr said:
It's both realistic and sensible. The only real problem with the game's implementation is that it doesn't give the civ that first builds the Wonder any advantage, which isn't how things actually worked.

Not entirely true... if you're the first to finish then A) you know you're going to finish it and B) you can plan on what to do next. If you're planning on using nukes you can have uranium lined up and everything prepared to build your arsenal. Another team may not be prepared to start producing them yet.

PriestOfDiscord · Oct 15, 2005

Melendwyr said:
Once the U.S. learned how to make the bombs, it was relatively simple to for spies to steal it and give it to the Soviet Union, which then took only a few years to duplicate the weapons. It took some of the world's greatest minds and incredible amounts of funding to learn how to do it, and now the process is so well understood that any country can construct one.

Ah, I understand where we disagree now. Personally, I see most of the international research into how to make the bomb as just that: research. I'd say thats already represented by the technology of fission. But even after the Soviets stole the fission advance from the United States, it still took them a year or so to erect facilities (prototype nuclear reactors, basically) to efficiently enrich uranium, process plutonium, and assemble all the critical parts (to the exact standards required) necessary to make a bomb. That is what I would consider the actual project to be, which every nuclear power has had to go through to develop their first weapon. But I do like your idea that the first person to reach it gets a free bomb to start with.

Thunderfall said:
Actually, there is a new category in Civ4 called "Projects", and The Manhattan Project is one of them. Spaceship parts, Internet, SDI, etc are also projects in Civ4. The Manhattan Project is a World Project, while most other projects are team projects.

Now that is something I really like. There is a big difference between monument-style wonders and secret military/industrial projects, and they have finally added that in. Thanks for the info!

(Though I still think it should only be a team project.

)

HourlyDaily · Oct 15, 2005

MRM said:
the only thing I wounder about is, shouldn't there be a nuklear winter instead of global warming

According to Futurama, the two should cancel each other out.

warpstorm · Oct 15, 2005

kryszcztov said:
He didn't mean the game as a whole, but this particular feature

His original text before he edited it did say the design of the game, not just this feature. I was over-reacting to what it said. For that I do apologize.

warpstorm · Oct 15, 2005

Back on topic, that is one awesome looking fireball.

doronron · Oct 15, 2005

What I'd like is an option to have ICBMs declare their targets, zoom out a bit, click the button, and watch the nukes all hit at once. Am I the only one?

warpstorm · Oct 15, 2005

One question I do have. Will the AI automatically have a knee-kerk raction and automatically go to war with you when you nuke or will it look at things a bit more rationally (for example, see if they actually mind that the target is gonna get wiped)?

QiZhe · Oct 15, 2005

Since it's given that info on the Manhattan Project would leak, maybe it should gift the civilization that builds it a free nuke, and then the other civs have to wait 5 turns or something before they could start building nukes.

Melendwyr · Oct 15, 2005

With a cost of 500 hammers, even the most productive civilizations will take a little while to build their own nuclear weapons. I think five turns would be excessive.

smellymummy · Oct 15, 2005

a free nuke or two would of been nice though

Meleager · Oct 15, 2005

how about the manhatten project automatically makes a nuke every 10 turns?

Louis XXIV · Oct 15, 2005

playshogi said:
Off topic....

The number of lives "saved" keeps growing all the time. Forgotten is the fact the Japanese had been trying to surrender for many months. There was no need to drop the bomb nor invade.

Continuing off topic, I'm not sure if this is true. I think the biggest motivation for surrender was the Soviet declaration of war, which didn't happen until after Hiroshima. Than again, the fire bombing of Tokyo caused more damage than the first atomic bomb, so it wouldn't make sense to be terrified by this new weapon, which wasn't that much more devistating than old techniques.

Thunderfall · Oct 15, 2005

Aussie_Lurker said:
BTW, TF, are you aware if it is possible to have other factors cause Global Warming? I still want Global Warming to be a result of run-away pollution!

Can't really tell you how easy it is to add pollution to the game, since I am not a modder.

But considering the moddability of the game, it should be possible. You most likely would need to edit the XML files and perhaps some scripts.

Tomasz said:
Can you detonate a nuclear explosive using any other means? (like via spy in civ2)

No, there is no plant nuclear device option.

warpstorm said:
Will the AI automatically have a knee-kerk reaction and automatically go to war with you when you nuke?

Don't think so...

Ex Mudder · Oct 16, 2005

Thunderfall said:
The main difference is projects can't be rushed, but wonders can be (if you have the right civic, like Universal Suffrage allows you to spend gold to rush production).

Are there any other civics choices that allow gold rushing? I know Slavery allows Pop rushing.

Thunderfall · Oct 16, 2005

No, all the Civics have different effects. There are no duplicate effects anywhere.

"Our words are backed by nuclear weapons!"

Administrator

Watching....

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