SGOTM 15 - One Short Straw

On the Toku worker steal on T109, if we go in with an axe/spear pair, neither will be available for a T110 DoW on Hatty. Should we:

a) march both units toward Toku's city on T110 to get a peek inside and retreat one (or both) unit once we see what's there? I think we want to threaten the city to get max tech value but maybe that's overkill since our power >> Toku's power.

b) march both units toward Hatty on T110 and leave Toku alone for now.
 
Regarding the Kyoto GLib plan, I get what you've done. You're showing that the forge + GLib can be built by T118/T119. So, even if the numbers aren't 100% correct, we can make it work.

Without a test game to MM this to death, I think I can make it work... but don't kill me if the GLib comes on T120. ;)

Here is what I plan to do:

Max food in Kyoto while Tokyo works the copper. Give Kyoto the copper back at pop 4 and grow Tokyo on grass farms rather than keeping the copper in Tokyo for so long (power gets power). I can work out the timing for the whipping of Kyoto's granary on the fly. It will happen after T110 anyway, so we can optimize that bit later.
 
@Mitchum

I didn't even try whipping the granary in Tokyo. I wouldn't be surprised if you can give up the corn for a turn or two to get some food OF and still get the GLib on T119.

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I've calculated that TOku has about 30k power in units in Satsumo. For example, that could be 2 archers and 4 sword/axes. That's a pretty hefty chunk of fighting power. He could easily respond with 4 units. Maybe it's better to let it go and hope he doesn't get pulled in.

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I was thinking ZPV might be right about the Deer road. If that worker insteadd roads the cow and starts cottaging, then the Delhi worker can road(1t) just south of the Zlat hill, then mine that hill. That allows the Zlat worker to road the chokepoint (after a partial farm or cottage to its south). Then the NC worker can cottage the NC plains river and then help cottage Delhi.

On that line, the Zlatorog xbow can be done in 4t as long as there is a road, but he would have to attack the bowman, who hopefully would be alone. (If not, probably better to let him go garrison so our worker can ignore him.)
 
Also, I'm fine with your plan for Marble, so the second non-river mine is probably unnecessary. SO that worker could go east, I suppose.

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Edit: I don't see us getting Sailing from Toku withOUT engaging a number of our units.
 
I didn't even try whipping the granary in Tokyo. I wouldn't be surprised if you can give up the corn for a turn or two to get some food OF and still get the GLib on T119.

Without a test game, I'll have to fly by the seat of my pants on this but with all of those nice, pre-improved tiles, we really can't go terribly wrong here.

I've calculated that TOku has about 30k power in units in Satsumo. For example, that could be 2 archers and 4 sword/axes. That's a pretty hefty chunk of fighting power. He could easily respond with 4 units. Maybe it's better to let it go and hope he doesn't get pulled in.

I'd be surprised if he had that many units. If he had that many attack units (in a marginal fringe city no less), we would have seen them at Kyoto or surely Tokyo. Power is made up of techs, pop, buildings and units, so it's possible that his power related to units is less than 30K.

In any event, the war with Hatty is much more important than stealing a single worker. Although, as I said earlier, if we could get a juicy tech in 3T out of the deal, it starts to make more sense to divert two units to get a worker plus a tech.

What is your rough estimate for what we could get in a DoP from Toku?

I was thinking ZPV might be right

Wait. You lost me here. Are you saying that ZPV was right? Not possible... :lol:

... about the Deer road. If that worker insteadd roads the cow and starts cottaging, then the Delhi worker can road(1t) just south of the Zlat hill, then mine that hill. That allows the Zlat worker to road the chokepoint (after a partial farm or cottage to its south). Then the NC worker can cottage the NC plains river and then help cottage Delhi.

That could work. The key will be to have cottages when needed in both Delhi and DC. Since we're planning to whip the granary in DC, we've got a few extra turns to play with here.

After cottaging the plains river in NC, I think we'll want the grass cottage if we plan to grow NC to 7 8...

On that line, the Zlatorog xbow can be done in 4t as long as there is a road, but he would have to attack the bowman, who hopefully would be alone. (If not, probably better to let him go garrison so our worker can ignore him.)

That bowman will be 1NW of the choke point on T110. I'll aim to pick him off if I can.
 
Playing now. I'll update this post ala ZPV and LC so that the report is all in one place.

T106 (225 BC)
- Fiddle some builds and tiles.

IBT - Hammy settles Opis (fishing villiage). Sword joins chariot in city. Stack of HA, 2 swords, axe, chariot and spear move to NW of choke point. We have 4 axes and 1 pike on the choke point. Either the bowman stayed put on the hill or one moved into the fog and another moved onto the same hill.
Peace deal with Hatty is auto canceled. :D

T107 (200 BC)
- Hatty adds a cow resource, which she won't trade.
- Cyrus no longer has Calendar listed as "Can Research" but it's not listed as "Won't Trade".
- Elephantine has sabotage building as 405 and sabotage production of 251.
- Hammy still won't talk
- We're running -8C/turn at 0% research with 83 gold in bank. What happened?
-> Unit Cost = 19
-> City Maint = 44
-> Civic Upkeep = 26
-> Inflation = 4
-> Total = 93
-> I whipped in NC (temple) and Osaka (xbow)

IBT: - Hammy moves chariot out to join SOD (leaving only sword in fishing village), which now has 2 HAs, 2 swords, axe, chariot and spear. Does a chariot upgrade to a HA? No. He must have had a HA in wheat city. The bowman turned back toward Hammy's core cities.
- Kyoto is about to become unhappy. Time to work cottages instead, which messes up LCs fancy MM. We can grow to 4 pops in 2 turns once whip :mad: wears off.

T108 (175 BC)
- Hatty had a sabotage production of 251 last turn but it is 0 this turn, so she just finished something. Sabotage building is 405.

IBT: - Hammy attacks our stack and loses 2 HAs, a sword and a chariot. The rest of the stack goes into the fishing village (now 2 swords, axe, chariot and spear).

T109 (150 BC)
- Hatty no longer has clams that she won't trade.
- Hatty's sabotage production is 89.

IBT: - Confucianism spreads to Osaka! Could be good when if we switch to culture... :mischief: Buddhism spreads to Osaka. Is the Buddhist holy city close by, like over the mountains? :confused:

T110 (125 BC)
- Oh no. We lost 1 :mad: in whip overflow but picked up another :mad: for "fighting with our brothers and sisters of the faith!" :cry: 11/120 in forge and will grow to 6 pops in 2 turns. Time to start working some mines...
- With no chance to work the copper in Kyoto, Tokyo has kept it and will complete the granary without any whipping.
- Save uploaded
- This is the first turn we could capture Toku's worker but that option is no longer on the table, so Sid made the decision for us... :)

Here is your Session Turn Log from 225 BC to 125 BC:
Spoiler :
Turn 107, 200 BC: The borders of Nature's Chandi have expanded!
Turn 107, 200 BC: You have constructed a Hindu Temple in Nature's Chandi. Work has now begun on The Temple of Artemis.

Turn 108, 175 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Zlatorog!
Turn 108, 175 BC: Delhi can hurry Trebuchet for 1⇴ with 35ℤ overflow, 19ℴ added to the treasury, and +1⇤ for 14 turns.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gold-E Locks can hurry Pikeman for 1⇴ with 13ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 36 turns.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Kyoto will become unhappy on the next turn.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gold-E Locks will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Tokyo will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Horse Archer (6.60) vs Gandhi's Pikeman 1 (Marble City) (16.80)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Combat Odds: 0.1%
Turn 108, 175 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: (Fortify: +5%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: (Combat: +100%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gandhi's Pikeman 1 (Marble City) is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Horse Archer is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gandhi's Pikeman 1 (Marble City) is hit for 12 (76/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Horse Archer is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Horse Archer is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gandhi's Pikeman 1 (Marble City) is hit for 12 (64/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gandhi's Pikeman 1 (Marble City) is hit for 12 (52/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gandhi's Pikeman 1 (Marble City) is hit for 12 (40/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gandhi's Pikeman 1 (Marble City) is hit for 12 (28/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Horse Archer is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gandhi's Pikeman 1 (Marble City) has defeated Hammuragawa's Horse Archer!
Turn 108, 175 BC: While defending, your Pikeman 1 (Marble City) has killed a Babylonian Horse Archer!
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Swordsman (6.60) vs Gandhi's Axeman 8 (Zlatorog) (13.50)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Combat Odds: 0.8%
Turn 108, 175 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: (Feature Defense: +20%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gandhi's Axeman 8 (Zlatorog) is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gandhi's Axeman 8 (Zlatorog) is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Swordsman is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Swordsman is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Swordsman is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Swordsman is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gandhi's Axeman 8 (Zlatorog) has defeated Hammuragawa's Swordsman!
Turn 108, 175 BC: While defending, your Axeman 8 (Zlatorog) has killed a Babylonian Swordsman!
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Chariot (4.40) vs Gandhi's Axeman 14 (Zlatorog) (4.76)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Combat Odds: 33.1%
Turn 108, 175 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: (Class Attack: -100%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Chariot is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gandhi's Axeman 14 (Zlatorog) is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gandhi's Axeman 14 (Zlatorog) is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Chariot is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Chariot is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gandhi's Axeman 14 (Zlatorog) is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Chariot is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gandhi's Axeman 14 (Zlatorog) is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Chariot is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gandhi's Axeman 14 (Zlatorog) has defeated Hammuragawa's Chariot!
Turn 108, 175 BC: While defending, your Axeman 14 (Zlatorog) has killed a Babylonian Chariot!
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Horse Archer (6.60) vs Gandhi's Axeman 15 (Delhi) (9.25)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Combat Odds: 12.2%
Turn 108, 175 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: (Fortify: +10%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gandhi's Axeman 15 (Delhi) is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gandhi's Axeman 15 (Delhi) is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gandhi's Axeman 15 (Delhi) is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Hammuragawa's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 108, 175 BC: Gandhi's Axeman 15 (Delhi) has defeated Hammuragawa's Horse Archer!
Turn 108, 175 BC: While defending, your Axeman 15 (Delhi) has killed a Babylonian Horse Archer!

Turn 109, 150 BC: Zlatorog can hurry Crossbowman for 1⇴ with 39ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Gold-E Locks has grown to size 5.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Marble City has grown to size 5.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Kyoto has grown to size 4.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Kyoto has become unhappy.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Hammuragawa is willing to negotiate.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Hammuragawa will trade Code of Laws, Sailing
Turn 109, 150 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Hammuragawa
Turn 109, 150 BC: Zlatorog will grow to size 9 on the next turn.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Nature's Chandi will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Osaka will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Kyoto will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Deer Cow will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Deal Canceled: Peace Treaty (10 Turns) to Tokugawa for Peace Treaty (10 Turns)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Confucianism has spread in Osaka.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Buddhism has spread in Tokyo.

Turn 110, 125 BC: Delhi can hurry Trebuchet for 1⇴ with 35ℤ overflow, 28ℴ added to the treasury, and +1⇤ for 12 turns.
Turn 110, 125 BC: Zlatorog has grown to size 9.
Turn 110, 125 BC: Zlatorog can hurry Barracks for 1⇴ with 21ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 110, 125 BC: Gold-E Locks can hurry Pikeman for 1⇴ with 23ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 34 turns.
Turn 110, 125 BC: Nature's Chandi has grown to size 7.
Turn 110, 125 BC: Nature's Chandi can hurry Work Boat for 1⇴ with 21ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 17 turns.
Turn 110, 125 BC: Osaka has grown to size 3.
Turn 110, 125 BC: Kyoto has grown to size 5.
Turn 110, 125 BC: Deer Cow has grown to size 3.
Turn 110, 125 BC: Deer Cow can hurry Granary for 1⇴ with 9ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
 
OK. Expenses went up by 1 and worked tiles went down by 4. Worked tiles should go back up as we re-grow onto cottages. Resuming, but this is looking dicey...
 
Should we consider putting some cottages down in GEL right now? I'm working an engineer at the moment (corn, sheep, gold, engineer) but could work a cottage if we had one.

Should we bag the GE idea in favor of an extra coin or two here?

Also, in Kyoto we could grow onto 2 cottages rather than mines. It may slow the GLib down by a turn (or more) but would add 6 coins/turn...
 
Bag the GE. Push on with GLib. We want to get it, though it looks like the AIs are going to be doing a lot of our research for us... :) If nothing else, the GLIb wil help us get much needed GPs for Golden Ages.
 
Playing - Kyoto is about to become unhappy. Time to work cottages instead, which messes up LCs fancy MM. We can grow to 4 pops in 2 turns once whip :mad: wears off.
Uh oh...Is there Motherland unhappiness at pop3? Forgot about that. That's what happens without a test save... :( Hm...what to do? Chop into the forge? Nto sure that's a good solution either...

Or maybe just forget about the forge for now. I don't know, I'd have to play around with it.
 
I'm going to dump the 60 OF hammers from the temple whip in NC into the GLib instead of ToA. That way, we know we'll get a 60 gold payoff in about 10 turns.
 
Since the bowman is not coming and since Hammy is not suiciding his stack, I'm going to finish a barracks before the xbow in Zlatorog to save a coin on maintenance and to get 3 "free" experience points on the unit. I'll have him 1T from completion (as is the pike) in case of an emergency though.
 
Yup. I've got it covered. Kyoto is working both cottages (+3C each) and has given the corn to Tokyo. It's all good.

We're now at -2C/turn with 75 gold in the bank.
THink I'd rather build the GLib asap than worry about a few coins. The reserve has its uses. We can't whip the forge till we get to pop6, unless you put 60 hammers in it and we don't really want to put a chop in there, I don't think.

I'm going to dump the 60 OF hammers from the temple whip in NC into the GLib instead of ToA. That way, we know we'll get a 60 gold payoff in about 10 turns.
Yes. Good idea.
 
Since the bowman is not coming and since Hammy is not suiciding his stack, I'm going to finish a barracks before the xbow in Zlatorog to save a coin on maintenance and to get 3 "free" experience points on the unit. I'll have him 1T from completion (as is the pike) in case of an emergency though.
Good idea. Looks like our SoD at the chokepoint is too strong for him to engage.
 
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