DeutschDachs
Emperor
elimination thread ranks civs in best way.
Also would take 10 years with the amount of civs
elimination thread ranks civs in best way.
I think these ratings are not about "what is the best CIV", but rather "what CIV enjoy people playing the most".
...so don't be overly shocked that some good CIVs are rated rather low.
The Candi is fine as it is. Having it replace the shrine or the temple will gimp Indonesia's faith gain.
Iroquois can't be that low. I've played them a few times, faced off against them regularly. It's one of the most powerful Civs in the game.
It's about as good as the Incas, yet Inca (8.32) ?
Hiawatha was a very strong opponent in G&K because of his AI, not because of his civ's strengths (and in BNW he seems to be somewhat punchless). The Iroquois are terrible. They have a mediocre replacement for a crappy unit, a unique building that's worse than the one it replaces, and a very weak UA.
The Inca have a relatively weak UU, but it's still better than the Mohawk Warrior—at least you'll actually build it. The Inca UI is excellent; the Longhouse is a disaster. And the Inca have one of the best UAs in the game. The Iroquois get free roads in forests and jungles in their own territory, nothing more. No benefits outside their territory (apart from the new Caravan thing, which is marginally useful), and they have to build railroads anyway in the late game if they want the attendant bonuses. The Inca get free roads and railroads in hills and half-price roads/railroads everywhere else, regardless of whether they own the tile—that's already better than the whole Iroquois UA. Crucially, they also get double movement in hills anywhere on the map, which gives them major advantages in exploration and warfare.
dexter, what would you consider the best map build for them? arborea wet? rainforest dry?
With his starting bias, he can get a jungle start quite often which will give him massive food throughout the game, and paired with trading posts, SP and pantheon, he gets a crapload of super tiles in the late game (gold,food,science,culture) all in 1 tile.
Furthermore, with Hiawatha, you can delay roads until later, making the early gold crunch in BNW significantly easier to handle.
You're also very likely to get jungle/forest starts which means you get your UB bonus and late-game supertiles within the radius of a single city; he's very flexible that way and unlike the Incas, don;y rely on perfect/good mountain starts to get that super core
Hiawatha was a very strong opponent in G&K because of his AI, not because of his civ's strengths (and in BNW he seems to be somewhat punchless). The Iroquois are terrible. They have a mediocre replacement for a crappy unit, a unique building that's worse than the one it replaces, and a very weak UA.
The Inca have a relatively weak UU, but it's still better than the Mohawk Warriorat least you'll actually build it. The Inca UI is excellent; the Longhouse is a disaster. And the Inca have one of the best UAs in the game. The Iroquois get free roads in forests and jungles in their own territory, nothing more. No benefits outside their territory (apart from the new Caravan thing, which is marginally useful), and they have to build railroads anyway in the late game if they want the attendant bonuses. The Inca get free roads and railroads in hills and half-price roads/railroads everywhere else, regardless of whether they own the tilethat's already better than the whole Iroquois UA. Crucially, they also get double movement in hills anywhere on the map, which gives them major advantages in exploration and warfare.
I'm sad to inform you, but the initial poster was right and your if{if{if{if{if}}}} construction just confirms it.Jungle is bad? news to me. Maybe in Civ3. A title that gives you 2 food base that adds 2 extra gold with TP, that can then add science with university, with the potential for even even more gold (3 gold) with Rationalism plus an an optional culture (if you get Pantheon) is not awful.
2food,3gpt,1science,1 culture. is a godly tile that is only rivaled by the GP supertiles.
Improved jungle tiles will make your golden ages truly golden, not to mention power your capital to amazing heights with all the multiplier buildings inside it.
This is probably why rankings are so borked if people actually believe improved jungles are bad.
If you hit Liberty, get the worker improvement bonus then also get Pyramids , the long improvement time isn't even an issue. But you should be hitting liberty at some point in almost all games you play even if its not the first SP tree you finish.
Note that I haven't even touched on their UB;
I'm sad to inform you, but the initial poster was right and your if{if{if{if{if}}}} construction just confirms it.
Civ is all about snowballing. Value of "superIf" is always lower than +2 hammers or +2 faith at turn 1.
Concretely jungle tiles can be huge mid to lategame, but starting with them isn't that great.
Point is, you still have to buy stuff other than the base game to obtain them.
Mohawk Warrior (which requires no Iron) is slightly weaker in BNW due to the shift in iron discovery from Iron Working to Bronze Working, which makes Iron much more easily accessible.
I think you are heavily underestimating the Longhouse. Yes, it is terrain dependent but it grants BASE hammers (which can get multiplied by modifiers), so it can easily yield more hammers than the normal Workshop. Are you also the type of player who thinks that the Austrian Coffee House is "worse" than the base Windmill?
Incans can build free roads, but those roads benefit enemy prophet/missionaries, as well as opponents if they manage to take your city. If the Iroquois lose their city, the opponent is denied access to roads since they don't exist!
If the Iroquois have been hit so hard by patches and expansions, and they're still a top-tier civ, you'd think we'd remember them being completely unstoppable in vanilla. But they weren't—they were fairly middle-of-the-road even then.
What patch and expansion made them worse? Can you give specific examples?
First, the Workshop was changed to give generic production instead of a bonus only to buildings, with no corresponding change to the Longhouse. Now the Longhouse was a crappy UB instead of an average one. Then, in G&K, the Swordsman went from being a powerhouse to being almost completely sidelined by the Pikeman. The Mohawk Warrior was still decentat least you were guaranteed to get it if you teched to Iron Workingbut no longer one of the best units in the game, especially considering the fact that ranged units now ruled the battlefield. Finally [...] BNW moved Iron up to Bronze Working, partially eroding the one major advantage the Mohawk Warrior still had over other Swordsmen.