dot80
Emperor
I forgot to mention, Jehoshua earned 3 Prestige for his story after the Session 0 Update
The City States of Greece
- Thread starter dot80
- Start date
mayor
Heart & Mind
that reminds me: Is it possible for a waitinglist-player to recieve prestige for stories... for instance a story about a NPC farmer who just recieved a bit of land on Tambiens fields? (dips 
)
)
dot80
Emperor
that reminds me: Is it possible for a waitinglist-player to recieve prestige for stories... for instance a story about a NPC farmer who just recieved a bit of land on Tambiens fields? (dips
Yes u r allowed to rp from the point of view of a peasant. Your story won't have effects on the other NPCs so no riled peasants stirring a mob.
How much prestige does Tam have oh mighty GMIt would be a show of bias against players to not reveal his now that you've revealed mine
Nope I think around session 5 I will post a high score lists. Until then you can always ask him.
because that story is probably my whole prestige considering I haven't done anything. Unless of course my speech to the masses made them hold me in more prestige as well
That was just my way of reminding everyone about that little rule.
mayor
Heart & Mind
Me? Stirring a mob? I wouldn't dare
I wasn't planning that
just a nice lighthearted story about a peasant 
Jehoshua
Catholic
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2009
- Messages
- 7,248
The Athenaead
-
Chapter II
The time under the reign of Prota Fotismenos was a time of hope for the latent greek civilisation, and a time of heroes as well. For upon the foundation of Athens, mother city of all Hellas, it was decided that a band of brave warriors was to be sent forth to the surrounding lands so that the Prinkipas would know all there was to know about the environs of his dominion.
These warriors roamed far and discovered many ruins of the old empire in their travels. Rumours in Athens of the time and in many contemporary works even today proclaim that these were the fabled cities of Artaparsa, Atlantis and Troy that the legends tell were the gems of the old Empire, their halls glittering with gold and silver, their people robed in the finest purple dyes thier technology advanced to the point of appearing magical to the greeks of Fotismeneid Athens. Indeed from the scattered and fragmentary records available to us it is recorded that the warriors discovered weaponry advanced for the period that proved to be the only significant technological advance of Protas' early reign and significant caches of gold, however unfortunately the identity of the civilisation responsible for the ruins cannot be discerned in the present, as they have dissapeared over the passage of time. Therefore whether they truly were the fabled cities of the old empire is left up to the imagination....
Continuing with the warriors journeys, and glossing over the many resources they discovered of which a modern audience is well aware, an important historical note is the contact between Japan and Hellas. Our people have always held that we are the pinnacle of civilised races and indeed this belief was even more pronounced in the beginnings of the new Hellas. As such the first contact was fraught with cultural difficulties as hellenic warriors attempted to communicate with japanese scouts. Records tell of both curiosity at the first meeting that other people could actually build towns similar to that of athens, and of abject wonderment that such a thing could possibly be. Needless to say the proximity of the two peoples and cultural differences practically ensured that they would become rivals in the years to come, as this work in later pages attests.
Returning to progress in Athens, under the first Fotismenoi ruler it was rather slow. The immediate environs were poor in both commerce and production in the early era as the great herds of elephants and the vineyards of northern attica had yet to be claimed for athens and the land was still undeveloped. The people in general lived lives of subsistence and poverty in primitive shacks. Interestingly historical records reveal that the Prinkipas as the first ruler styled himself took for himself a significant proportion of the states income for his personal use and indeed it is also recorded that he released land to the commons only after the people begged for land with which to grow food to feed their starving children. At this point it is important for any historian to remember that these times were trying, and that athenian government was only just being established thus making troubles a natural part of starting a civilisation.Either way opinion amongst scholars today is divided on whether Prota Fotismenos was a tyrant who, save for the barest necessity mruled his people with an iron fist for his own benefit, or to [araphrase the revisionist school, as to whether he was a benevolent if somewhat inexperienced autocrat who although flawed, genuinely cared for the wellbeing of the people with his failueres merely resulting from from the challenging task of founding a new civilisation and establishing the protocols on which later rulers could build. The latter opinion has gained currency in recent years as ancient clay tablets have surfaced detailing land reforms associated with Protas and revealing a detailed construction and research platform indicitative of a mind geared towards the long term development of Athens and the good of its people. However the dipute still rages in academic circles to this day. Incidentally it is in the records of Protas' policies that we find first record in the Athenian state of the Megakyrioi, a name recorded in the miniscule number or records we have on the Old Empire. The appearance is found on a government record which details a cultural policy proposition to the Prinkypas in a speech by one Agamemnon Megakyrios in the public square. This policy incidentally advocated cultural engagement and allegiance with the polish tribes that resided north-east of ancient athens. The Megakyrioi, as students well know would later become quite notable in the affairs of the Hellenic Poleis, something most fitting considering the meaning of the venerable families name.
-
This pavilion is a replica in the Athens botanical gardens of an ancient Japanese pavilion that once stood in the grounds of the palace of Japans Emperor. It is believed to have been constructed in the 18 year of the reign of one Emperor Jinmu, equivalent to Yr 20 in our calendar. The Emperors of Japan were however practically powerless at this time and ever after, being ceremonial leaders. All actual power was vested in the Oda Clan, who's leaders in a strange habit exclusively used the name Nobunaga upon their ascension to the position of Seii Taishogun
-
Chapter II
The time under the reign of Prota Fotismenos was a time of hope for the latent greek civilisation, and a time of heroes as well. For upon the foundation of Athens, mother city of all Hellas, it was decided that a band of brave warriors was to be sent forth to the surrounding lands so that the Prinkipas would know all there was to know about the environs of his dominion.
These warriors roamed far and discovered many ruins of the old empire in their travels. Rumours in Athens of the time and in many contemporary works even today proclaim that these were the fabled cities of Artaparsa, Atlantis and Troy that the legends tell were the gems of the old Empire, their halls glittering with gold and silver, their people robed in the finest purple dyes thier technology advanced to the point of appearing magical to the greeks of Fotismeneid Athens. Indeed from the scattered and fragmentary records available to us it is recorded that the warriors discovered weaponry advanced for the period that proved to be the only significant technological advance of Protas' early reign and significant caches of gold, however unfortunately the identity of the civilisation responsible for the ruins cannot be discerned in the present, as they have dissapeared over the passage of time. Therefore whether they truly were the fabled cities of the old empire is left up to the imagination....
Continuing with the warriors journeys, and glossing over the many resources they discovered of which a modern audience is well aware, an important historical note is the contact between Japan and Hellas. Our people have always held that we are the pinnacle of civilised races and indeed this belief was even more pronounced in the beginnings of the new Hellas. As such the first contact was fraught with cultural difficulties as hellenic warriors attempted to communicate with japanese scouts. Records tell of both curiosity at the first meeting that other people could actually build towns similar to that of athens, and of abject wonderment that such a thing could possibly be. Needless to say the proximity of the two peoples and cultural differences practically ensured that they would become rivals in the years to come, as this work in later pages attests.
Returning to progress in Athens, under the first Fotismenoi ruler it was rather slow. The immediate environs were poor in both commerce and production in the early era as the great herds of elephants and the vineyards of northern attica had yet to be claimed for athens and the land was still undeveloped. The people in general lived lives of subsistence and poverty in primitive shacks. Interestingly historical records reveal that the Prinkipas as the first ruler styled himself took for himself a significant proportion of the states income for his personal use and indeed it is also recorded that he released land to the commons only after the people begged for land with which to grow food to feed their starving children. At this point it is important for any historian to remember that these times were trying, and that athenian government was only just being established thus making troubles a natural part of starting a civilisation.Either way opinion amongst scholars today is divided on whether Prota Fotismenos was a tyrant who, save for the barest necessity mruled his people with an iron fist for his own benefit, or to [araphrase the revisionist school, as to whether he was a benevolent if somewhat inexperienced autocrat who although flawed, genuinely cared for the wellbeing of the people with his failueres merely resulting from from the challenging task of founding a new civilisation and establishing the protocols on which later rulers could build. The latter opinion has gained currency in recent years as ancient clay tablets have surfaced detailing land reforms associated with Protas and revealing a detailed construction and research platform indicitative of a mind geared towards the long term development of Athens and the good of its people. However the dipute still rages in academic circles to this day. Incidentally it is in the records of Protas' policies that we find first record in the Athenian state of the Megakyrioi, a name recorded in the miniscule number or records we have on the Old Empire. The appearance is found on a government record which details a cultural policy proposition to the Prinkypas in a speech by one Agamemnon Megakyrios in the public square. This policy incidentally advocated cultural engagement and allegiance with the polish tribes that resided north-east of ancient athens. The Megakyrioi, as students well know would later become quite notable in the affairs of the Hellenic Poleis, something most fitting considering the meaning of the venerable families name.
-
Spoiler :
.JPG)
This pavilion is a replica in the Athens botanical gardens of an ancient Japanese pavilion that once stood in the grounds of the palace of Japans Emperor. It is believed to have been constructed in the 18 year of the reign of one Emperor Jinmu, equivalent to Yr 20 in our calendar. The Emperors of Japan were however practically powerless at this time and ever after, being ceremonial leaders. All actual power was vested in the Oda Clan, who's leaders in a strange habit exclusively used the name Nobunaga upon their ascension to the position of Seii Taishogun
Tambien
Theseus, Duke of Athens
OOC
How are we going to deal with the Japanese?
Keep the warrior around their borders. If the opportunity presents itself, take a worker or settler.
What are you going to do with the treasures?
Buy the alleigance of Warsaw.
As to the debate about settlement sites, I personally feel that we should compromise between a profitrable site, and blocking of the Japanese.
-
Public Speech
People of the Athenian Polis! Let it be known that all efforts possible have been focused on raising the standard of living in this, the Mother and Father of all Cities, the Bringer of Civilization, Athens. Once again, I ask all plebians to come forth with whatever concerns they might have, so I could do my best to fix them.
I know that another family, the Megakyrios, and their patriarch, Agamemnon Jehoshua Megakyrios, have recently risen to prominence in our great polis. It pleases me to elevate him to the rank of Dioikitis, a new rank I have created in the military. The Dioikitis shall be second only to me in military terms, and it gives me great pleasure to give some responsibility for the management of this great city to a rising figure of economics and wisdom. I am also giving Agamemnon Jehoshua Megakyrios the position of Domestic Advisor, and know that he will do right by Athens in both positions. On this note, I am also happy to announce the first meeting of the Megalis, to be made up of the reprasentatives from both the Megakyrios and Fotismenos noble families. In that vein, I, as the only eligable member of my family, will be the Forismenoi representative to the Megalis. I ask the Megakyrioi to name their representative.
Finally, oh glorious plebians of Athens, I would talk to you of a celebration of sorts. It has recently come to my attention that earlier attempts to bring your wealth and situation up have done a little to help, but not much. I thereby will suspend all land taxes upon the people of Athens (not the taxes, outlined in the Syntagma, but the taxes you mention in the rules) for a full five turns of the moon. (ie- redirect the taxes back to them, for five turns) I also announce the suspension of the rent on my wheat properties, along with the taxes, for the same amount of time. (ie- no rent will be payed on my land for 5 turns)
I thank you, people of Athens, for the trust you have put in me. Please continue to make this city and this position possible with your suggestions and reports.
How are we going to deal with the Japanese?
Keep the warrior around their borders. If the opportunity presents itself, take a worker or settler.
What are you going to do with the treasures?
Buy the alleigance of Warsaw.
As to the debate about settlement sites, I personally feel that we should compromise between a profitrable site, and blocking of the Japanese.
-
Public Speech
People of the Athenian Polis! Let it be known that all efforts possible have been focused on raising the standard of living in this, the Mother and Father of all Cities, the Bringer of Civilization, Athens. Once again, I ask all plebians to come forth with whatever concerns they might have, so I could do my best to fix them.
I know that another family, the Megakyrios, and their patriarch, Agamemnon Jehoshua Megakyrios, have recently risen to prominence in our great polis. It pleases me to elevate him to the rank of Dioikitis, a new rank I have created in the military. The Dioikitis shall be second only to me in military terms, and it gives me great pleasure to give some responsibility for the management of this great city to a rising figure of economics and wisdom. I am also giving Agamemnon Jehoshua Megakyrios the position of Domestic Advisor, and know that he will do right by Athens in both positions. On this note, I am also happy to announce the first meeting of the Megalis, to be made up of the reprasentatives from both the Megakyrios and Fotismenos noble families. In that vein, I, as the only eligable member of my family, will be the Forismenoi representative to the Megalis. I ask the Megakyrioi to name their representative.
Finally, oh glorious plebians of Athens, I would talk to you of a celebration of sorts. It has recently come to my attention that earlier attempts to bring your wealth and situation up have done a little to help, but not much. I thereby will suspend all land taxes upon the people of Athens (not the taxes, outlined in the Syntagma, but the taxes you mention in the rules) for a full five turns of the moon. (ie- redirect the taxes back to them, for five turns) I also announce the suspension of the rent on my wheat properties, along with the taxes, for the same amount of time. (ie- no rent will be payed on my land for 5 turns)
I thank you, people of Athens, for the trust you have put in me. Please continue to make this city and this position possible with your suggestions and reports.
dot80
Emperor
So I just realized another flaw in the rules. If I continue using my current system for the Standard of Living, even just a hundred or so turns in, the large cities will all be considered wealthy, while the small cities all considered poor. To fix this I am going to change the system so that instead of comparing the raw commerce income of the cities I am going to compare the ratios of the Commerce Income/Population. I may also need to remove some extreme outliers from the entire calculation. This of course will be later in the game, but the % modifiers from buildings, techs, and policies can really add up. One super rich outlier could offset the average enough to cause normal cities to be considered poor. Luckily this wont have too much effect on the Standard of Living of any of the cities too much, considering we are working with all 1 and 2 pop cities. The only foreseeable problem with this is that cities specialized in production will have a pitiful standard of living, but I guess that makes sense. To have the highest production possible the workforce must work long hours for low wages in bad conditions.
Tambien
Theseus, Duke of Athens
Let it be known that Agamemnon Jehoshua Megakyrios has been given possession of the two plots of the Athenian Gulf contained in the borders of the great city. He has agreed to keep all current residents, and make no changes. (ie- the output of the tiles goes to him, but the people stay, dont pay rent, and the land taxes go to the city)
mayor
Heart & Mind
ooc: I rather think the fisherfolk live in Athens and make a living fishing in the Gulf. To have the right to fish and make that living they pay you....
Tambien
Theseus, Duke of Athens
ooc: His mayorial excellence is correct
Jehoshua
Catholic
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2009
- Messages
- 7,248
Public Speech in the Megalis
-
Honoured Prinkipas, and my brothers amongst the great Megakyrioi and Fotismenoi families. Our great prinkipas has decided to waive certain land taxes for a period of time for all land-holding citizens of Athens. I applaud this action for it shows care and compassion in these times, which test us all as we seek to build a polis that will stand the test of time.
However there is a problem
I have talked to the elders and reviewed comprehensively the customary law of the hellenes in regard to the land taxes, distinct from the income taxes have implemented in the Syntagma, and have failed to find any evidence that they actually exist. Thus your reprieve from land taxation although excellent in intent, for indeed I remind the observors of the Megalis that it is these supposed land taxes and not the income taxes in the Syntagma that would be reprieved, would result in precisely no difference in the lives of our people because these taxes that you are waiving simply do not exist.
Now of course I may be merely missing something, afterall the lack of clearly remembered detail in regards ancient customary prices and taxes is well known and thus I myself am not immune to error. But I must ask out of paternal concern for my fellow hellenes that you have your secretaries review the ancient customary law on land tax, to which the tax reprieve you so recently announced applies, and find out with certainty whether such a tax exists so that this potential problem may be put at rest. I ask this of you my Lord because should these supposed taxes truly be non-existent it would certainly dishearten the people to know that their Lord, despite his good intent, gave them no true reprieve from their burdens in an act that can only be called, I am sorry to say it but it must be said, incompetent. This is of course presuming that no other reason is responsible for the misinformation should non-existence indeed be the case, such as government dysfunction under your period of singular, personal rule prior to your appointment of advisors.
Anyways to proceed from this point, I would ask that should the land taxes your original act of benevolence applied to be found to be truly nonexistent, that you lower for a time the income taxes mandated in the Syntagma to ensure that the common folk do indeed receive the reprieve in tacation your promised them. It would be most abominable in the sight of gods and men for you to in knowledge of such an error as my inquiries suggest exist, to willingly refrain from rectifying such an error. Indeed it would verge on caprice and tyranny to propose a gift to the people... only to take it away before it is even given.....
*turns over clay tablet inscribed with pictures*
On one other point, I would like to humbly propose that after the due process of learning to make.. what are they called... pots, to harness the earth for resources, learning to forge the earths resources into more usable materials, and recovering the knowledge of seasons (researching pottery, mining, bronze working and calendar), that we instead of creating signs to record knowledge as you suggest, instead learn how to tame the beasts of the wilds. The desert sheep would provide diversity into the wheat rich diet of the common folk and at the same time knowledge of how to tame animals could have other uses in the future. That said creating signs should most definitely proceed immediately after the taming of the beasts that I suggest, for it would be of most utility, it may of even prevented the previous question around the possible land tax from recurring, although I would think that a simple pictorial reminder would suffice.
-
~Speech of Agamemnon Megakyrios at the first sitting of the Megalis
---
OOC:
I have read through this and the entire opening post with its rules and so forth and found nothing that even indicates the original extra-constitutional tax which you have mentioned. I post the relevant section ( PROPERTY ) in spoilers above to point out the lack of tax, as you when I PMed you about the absence of the tax you are supposedly waiving for a time pointed to this section as the source of the tax.
As readers can see it says no such thing, it simply clarifies the following
- Characters can own hexes and gain income from them
- There are two types of owned of hexes
- The differences between the two types
- That npcs will demand a kind of hex dependant on their status
- The amount of drachmas one gets for each food, production and commerce point on a tile
- That tiles are, named, bouthg, distributed etc etc, based on player rules
-
Honoured Prinkipas, and my brothers amongst the great Megakyrioi and Fotismenoi families. Our great prinkipas has decided to waive certain land taxes for a period of time for all land-holding citizens of Athens. I applaud this action for it shows care and compassion in these times, which test us all as we seek to build a polis that will stand the test of time.
However there is a problem
I have talked to the elders and reviewed comprehensively the customary law of the hellenes in regard to the land taxes, distinct from the income taxes have implemented in the Syntagma, and have failed to find any evidence that they actually exist. Thus your reprieve from land taxation although excellent in intent, for indeed I remind the observors of the Megalis that it is these supposed land taxes and not the income taxes in the Syntagma that would be reprieved, would result in precisely no difference in the lives of our people because these taxes that you are waiving simply do not exist.
Now of course I may be merely missing something, afterall the lack of clearly remembered detail in regards ancient customary prices and taxes is well known and thus I myself am not immune to error. But I must ask out of paternal concern for my fellow hellenes that you have your secretaries review the ancient customary law on land tax, to which the tax reprieve you so recently announced applies, and find out with certainty whether such a tax exists so that this potential problem may be put at rest. I ask this of you my Lord because should these supposed taxes truly be non-existent it would certainly dishearten the people to know that their Lord, despite his good intent, gave them no true reprieve from their burdens in an act that can only be called, I am sorry to say it but it must be said, incompetent. This is of course presuming that no other reason is responsible for the misinformation should non-existence indeed be the case, such as government dysfunction under your period of singular, personal rule prior to your appointment of advisors.
Anyways to proceed from this point, I would ask that should the land taxes your original act of benevolence applied to be found to be truly nonexistent, that you lower for a time the income taxes mandated in the Syntagma to ensure that the common folk do indeed receive the reprieve in tacation your promised them. It would be most abominable in the sight of gods and men for you to in knowledge of such an error as my inquiries suggest exist, to willingly refrain from rectifying such an error. Indeed it would verge on caprice and tyranny to propose a gift to the people... only to take it away before it is even given.....
*turns over clay tablet inscribed with pictures*
On one other point, I would like to humbly propose that after the due process of learning to make.. what are they called... pots, to harness the earth for resources, learning to forge the earths resources into more usable materials, and recovering the knowledge of seasons (researching pottery, mining, bronze working and calendar), that we instead of creating signs to record knowledge as you suggest, instead learn how to tame the beasts of the wilds. The desert sheep would provide diversity into the wheat rich diet of the common folk and at the same time knowledge of how to tame animals could have other uses in the future. That said creating signs should most definitely proceed immediately after the taming of the beasts that I suggest, for it would be of most utility, it may of even prevented the previous question around the possible land tax from recurring, although I would think that a simple pictorial reminder would suffice.
-
~Speech of Agamemnon Megakyrios at the first sitting of the Megalis
---
OOC:
Spoiler :
I have read through this and the entire opening post with its rules and so forth and found nothing that even indicates the original extra-constitutional tax which you have mentioned. I post the relevant section ( PROPERTY ) in spoilers above to point out the lack of tax, as you when I PMed you about the absence of the tax you are supposedly waiving for a time pointed to this section as the source of the tax.
As readers can see it says no such thing, it simply clarifies the following
- Characters can own hexes and gain income from them
- There are two types of owned of hexes
- The differences between the two types
- That npcs will demand a kind of hex dependant on their status
- The amount of drachmas one gets for each food, production and commerce point on a tile
- That tiles are, named, bouthg, distributed etc etc, based on player rules
filli_noctus
Hmmn
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2010
- Messages
- 2,221
We look forward to oppres.... err.... working with you for the greater glory of Greece!
JohannaK
Heroically Clueless
I thought your family was DEMandros... 
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