How does UN work ?

Will everyone get to vote yay or nea to me winning ?

Do i simply buy all the CS, be host and thus have 2 + 4 + 16x2 = 38 votes or 40 with forbidden palace vs 7x4 = 28 available other votes ? Meaning basically reputation etc doesnt really matter ?

Or does it need to be some kind of unanimous thing ?

How about killing off civs. I see people talk about killing all but 1. Do you need that remaining civs favor or does it not matter ? Does it matter if more than 1 survive ? Is the plan of leaving just 1 only to make it that UN activates upon entering atomic ?

In other words, if i didnt choose to kill them early, can i still try to do so late and win the UN even if i fail to kill 6 out of the 7 opponents and the rest hates me ?

Everyone votes for themselves unless they are bribed. Bribes depend on relations and more importantly, how many votes do you currently have. More on that later

There is a fixed number of votes you need to have for the win, on standard maps with 16 city states it's 40. If a city state has been conquered/bought, votes drop by 2 and needed votes by 1, so by default

host = 6
all city states 16 x 2 =32
get 2 more
40 = win

However if 3 city states are off, 37 is needed for the win

host = 6
city states 13 x 2=26
you need 5 more.

If nobody gets that much, no leader is chosen and the two nations with the most votes get 2 extra votes next session, game's way of resolving the status quo. So if you get less than that, well too bad.

Killing off other civs is the approach used mostly on lower difficulties where AI doesn't tech that well. The thing is, UN triggers after at least one civ hits Info or half the world rounded down reach Atomic. On Immortal/Deity that happens around 250-260 but on Emperor or below it's advised to kill everyone except 2 because that way once YOU hit Atomic (which is before Info) the vote is triggered because that's half the remaining world rounded down (3/2=1). It's also much easier to kill everyone on Emperor because Immortal/Deity AIs do put up quite a fight and the warmonger penalty is easier to deal with on Emperor since you don't depend on trading with AIs as much as on Immortal/Deity.

Either way, once the UN is triggered, the CURRENT congress session must play out before the UN vote takes place. That can be an issue because sometimes it can be triggered at the beginning of the session and sometimes towards the end, which is ~20 turn difference.

Way to win, obviously buy all city states first:

Option A. bulb scientists to Globalization. Send all spies to AI capitals as Diplomats.

Option B. Pass World Religion/World Ideology, build Forbidden Palace

Option C. Bribe people to vote, know how the bribing mechanics work and exploit that. I was doing that without knowing. If your total votes + 8 isn't enough to win, AI will consider voting for you. You can do that with multiple AIs but you need a Diplomat in their capital.

Bear in mind, three options are not mutually exclusive

Interesting, thanks. Means i did screw up a little by capturing a CS. Just the FP wont be enough. On the positive, passing world ideology should be peanuts and will fix the problem.

Just to be sure. You said the UN comes after the current session played out. The results of that session will be included right ? so i can make world ideology in that last session. ?

Just finished scientific method. Time to make difficult choises i guess .
Wondering if i will be able to both pay for unit upkeep, keep buying city states, and have enough happiness to carry the burden of conquest.
Are there any game mechanics im not aware of that eases the burdens of war ? espescially the upkeep costs of having 2 conquest groups?
The happiness i suppose should be covered by buying alliance with those city states providing me luxes. But would it help to leave a captured city open for recapture and then take it again, cutting its population in half again to speed up razing, or do i actually keep the unhapines from the first capture ?


Can i, if it happens to be needed upgrade my army across the globe by taking a puppet for giving me territory or did they do something to prevent that ?

Oh and. Is the information i found still correct ? Great scientist gives the science that you make in the last 8 turns ? I assume that does not include beakers from research agreements or other scientists ?
Research agreements give 50% of the median available tech cost, up to 100% with scientific revolution and porcelain tower ? While my median tech cost is 2024 and i have porcelain tower, i would expect 1500 or so. Yet they only give about 500. How comes ? Is it calculated when you start the agreement rather than finish it ?

1. Absolutely. You want ideally every city state on your side

2. The current sessions counts, yes. So if World Ideology is passed, its effects will be active on the next sessions, which is the UN. You'll know because the number of turns highlighting the vote will become GREEN

3. If you have Autocracy tenets, there shouldn't be any issues, the only limit would be the per-city unhappy, you should be able to max out the local happiness in every conquered city with tenets

4. There's a tenet (I think) in Autocracy that reduces unit maintenance by a third.

5. Like I said, you should be able to maximize the difference between population unhappy and local city happy, so no point in dropping down the population, really.

6. You can only upgrade inside your territory. So puppet or annex, it's all the same

7. GS bulb gives 8 turns of science produced in cities, so trade routes don't count, RAs don't count, I'm pretty sure the Ratio opener doesn't count either but don't know that.

Finally, the median tech cost mechanic has been changed a long time go. Now it's different, don't know exactly how it goes, but it's one sixth of the science produced by the weaker RA partner, or something like that

AI civs usually cannot be bribed to vote for you for world leader unless war-assistance is incorporated. You can be friends with them all game, have all the positive diplo modifiers in place and still have "there is no way to make this happen" as the reaction to the request.

One thing that ALWAYS works is reviving a dead civ. If a civ has been completely eliminated and you liberate one of their cities "recalling them to life" they'll always be able to be bribed into voting for you and usually for free. Note that you can play a large role in their elimination and still benefit from this. If you declare war, take their capital and burn all but one city and then make peace with them before another civ finishes them off, you can then declare war on the other civ, revive them by liberating the last city and have them vote for you. I often wonder if there's a time limit on this, though. For example, if Attilla eliminates a civ in the classical era (as Attila does), you then liberate the civ in the classical or medieval era, will the ability to persuade him to vote for you last all the way until the end of the game? Or would it be better to recall that civ later? I usually delay just to be safe.

Liberating a civ's capital also weighs heavily in being able to persuade a civ to vote for you, but this has to be supplemented. I had a game where Alexander decided at turn 5 that he hates me (as Alexander does) and continued hating me with more and more reasons as the game progressed. Later, someone else took his capital. I liberated his capital before the other civ completely eradicated him, bringing him straight from "hostile" to "friendly" but he still would not vote for me at any cost.

I've also had games where I just performed actions that removed a WHOLE lotta warmonger hate (where none existed.) Genghis took a bunch of city states and completely eradicated two civs. I declared war on him, took a total of 14 cities (5 city states and 9 cities which comprised two complete AI empires) all of which were liberated. In addition to the two civs that I recalled, some other civs that I'd been friendly with all game were then willing to vote for me despite not liberating any of their cities.

ShakaKhan said:

AI civs usually cannot be bribed to vote for you for world leader unless war-assistance is incorporated. You can be friends with them all game, have all the positive diplo modifiers in place and still have "there is no way to make this happen" as the reaction to the request.

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Not entirely correct.

Option C. Bribe people to vote, know how the bribing mechanics work and exploit that. I was doing that without knowing. If your total votes + 8 isn't enough to win, AI will consider voting for you. You can do that with multiple AIs but you need a Diplomat in their capital.

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This is the mechanics which decides if they will vote for you or not. If they like you and the condition is satisfied, they will consider it.

Also reviving a dead civ will guarantee you get their full 4 votes without further bribes, no matter how badly they hate you afterwards. As long as you weren't the one capturing their final city, and that they have another city controlled by another civ/CS, you can revive that civ later, even if they were at war with you at the end. This works best if you can either donate advanced units to CS so that CS take the final capture, or just use ranged unit to keep city hp at 1 so CS can capture easily.

So while none of this is needed since its easy enough to get your votes trough FP + world religion + world ideology, basically if you want maximum votes, you dont buy all CSes till the end. Instead just buy the most useful half or so throughout the game and then save up a ton of money.

Then you can bribe major civ votes as much as you can.

Then you buy the remaining CSes.

When considering if you have votes-8 or not, do they factor in:
-previously bribed major civs ?
-votes from revived civs ?

Aditional question:
How eagerly will the AI major civs buy CS alliances to reduce your votes on the last turn ? It surprises me that they dont really compete for CS alliances in the game usually even if they have tons of gold, they are just not spending it on CSes while i buy them all. Will they do so when the UN vote comes up ? Or to what degree or under what conditions will they ?

Well, it's not THAT easy but yeah, the diplo win is by far the easiest because the mechanics are really simple. And yes, counter intuitively, don't buy all CSs until the end, just save up all the money

1. No
2. Probably not, but I don't know
3. The AIs don't care if you win or not. The way that works, if they can insta-ally with a 500 gold gift they will do it. Otherwise they won't bother. It's broken but I'm pretty certain they left that one open during development and the Deity AIs, having massive banks, kept pouring money into city states infinitely and nobody could break out, making diplo win impossible

in my experience immortal AIs will buy CS within 1-2 turns of a vote but maybe that's just confirmation bias on my part

miaasma said:

in my experience immortal AIs will buy CS within 1-2 turns of a vote but maybe that's just confirmation bias on my part

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I have certainly experienced AI spoiling delaying my diplo win by purchasing CS the turn before a vote. Very clever really, glad to seem them do it!

But that was before I learned that an AI will never drop more than 500 gold to gain ally status. So the game mechanics are easier for me now.

I am still struggling to figure out the circumstances when an AI is bribable for their vote. I think you need to (1) have excellent relations, and (2) be 8+ votes short.

Sclb said:

As long as you weren't the one capturing their final city, and that they have another city controlled by another civ/CS, you can revive that civ later, even if they were at war with you at the end.

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I am almost certain that is not correct. If you are at war with an AI when they are eliminated, you will not have the option to recall them to life. I always try to make peace before they go, just to keep my options open, but sometimes the deal to war has not expired. But why your conditional “that they have another city controlled by another civ/CS”? How does that change the game mechanics?

beetle said:

I am almost certain that is not correct. If you are at war with an AI when they are eliminated, you will not have the option to recall them to life. But why your conditional “that they have another city controlled by another civ/CS”? How does that change the game mechanics?

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I usually never make peace unless they have significant gpt to offer, and in the CDG, I've revived the lady after a CS took her final city and at war the whole time. In order to revive them, they have to have a city that you're able to liberate. And you can't liberate the cities that you captured. So they have to have another city controlled by another civ/CS that isn't being razed. Also, CS usually raze cities.

Sclb said:

I...in the CDG, I've revived the lady after a CS took her final city and at war the whole time.

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Interesting. I have to wonder then if it changes things up when a CS kills them rather than another AI? In your CDG example, did you revive the lady by taking the city the CS took or some other city?

I am quite certain I have not gotten the option for recalling to life a civ that died while I was at war with them. (And I am not the one taking their last city.) But I am not certain I have tried it when it was a CS that snuffed them out. And if it was a CS, I have to wonder if it would matter if the CS was allied to civ besides me? There are a few more variables!

In order to revive them, they have to have a city that you're able to liberate.

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Sure, but why couldn't that be their final city? If their final city is not razed, why couldn't that be one you use to recall them to life?

beetle said:

In your CDG example, did you revive the lady by taking the city the CS took or some other city?

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I took a city from another AI, since the CS razed her final city. It doesn't matter if the CS or another AI took her final city either. I've revived civs before in both cases.

Sure, but why couldn't that be their final city? If their final city is not razed, why couldn't that be one you use to recall them to life?

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In my case, the CS captured the final city. So even if it wasn't razed, I'll have to DoW the CS to liberate, which isn't optimal.

miaasma said:

in my experience immortal AIs will buy CS within 1-2 turns of a vote but maybe that's just confirmation bias on my part

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There have been a DCG where England actually DoWed me 3 turns before the final vote (where i would have been elected) while i was the other side of the Pangea, and rather than try to send me some navy, she took all the CS near her. Never knew if she did it on purpose but it was really a "smart move"
Forced me to go on some liberation crusade (thanks Cathy for being a crazy warmonger all game long )