Mesoamerica Mod

Ok , this is even worse than i thought....

First of all a glimpse on the scenario WB save:

Ok, quick game with Agg AI ( I was wondering ) and Max city elimination ( lose 3 cities, lose the game ). Nothing too much...

Lets give a look to the Isabella "Team" section ( saying what techs, contacts and diplo status they have:

For 600 it is not that bad in terms of techs, but remember that Spain does not have cities for a big while ( if at all ) and that Spain doesn't spawn until much later. But the big comes next: Spain knows everyone ( not that everyone knows spain ) and is in war with everyone from the start. Besides that it does not know the map...

Ok, lets join all this: Spain starts late ,with 1 settler and 2 explorers and in war with everyone..... No wonder that so few people have saw them so far: they'll die at the first 5 turns in land ( in my game they lost their only city to a barb warrior in turn 61 ). It looks that they are there just to spread the disease and die

My hash solution would be making a island with 1 spanish city or make the spawn more powerful ( pls, 2 explorers and a settler? In quasi-AW ? ). Making Spain to start in peace with everyone would help ...

I'm thinking on editing the WB just to see the diferences

yeh maybe a carribean island they can start from

I think we should have them start at peace and either have them declare war when they have more units or have a great predisposition toward war.

One the other hand, there may be no need for Spain to found cities. Just capturing them from natives might be a better way. Some Python could regulate what Spanish units show up in the game and when.

deanej said:

I think we should have them start at peace and either have them declare war when they have more units or have a great predisposition toward war.

Click to expand...

This could be a problem considering the small pox "feature" (the AI-natives should not allow Spanish units in their territory) and the inability of the AI to formulate any sort of coherent strategy (especially as regards getting Spain to declare war on anyone). Might be best if they started out at war.

As they spawn the code is already there.... it is just a matter of how much strength we want ot give to the Spanish. But they need a settler/city... otherwise they are dead ( this is not " Require complete kill" ) and maybe a christian missionary....

P.S well, as far as war is concerned, I think with Izzy zealous nature and diferent religion, war is just a matter of time.... and about the small pox feature, they could start with OB

r_rolo1 said:

As they spawn the code is already there.... it is just a matter of how much strength we want ot give to the Spanish. But they need a settler/city... otherwise they are dead ( this is not " Require complete kill" ) and maybe a christian missionary....

P.S well, as far as war is concerned, I think with Izzy zealous nature and diferent religion, war is just a matter of time.... and about the small pox feature, they could start with OB

Click to expand...

I would make it a "require complete kills" game. It gives an outer-world civ a lot of leeway.

The arrival of the Spanish in Central America eventually spelled the doom of its civilizations. The scenario could be designed as an "armageddon" situation, where the winner is the biggest surviving native civ (either that or the Spaniards are completely thrown out of Central America).

I would tone down the diseases, since that does ruin the game. To be historic, you also ought to be able to bring about huge armies toting obsidian weapons, atlatls, etc (blow guns?). The biggest problem is getting over the concept Spaniards are "gods" (a sort of fear factor?). I'm not sure how to make that work since it's an all or nothing situation -- the natives attack in mass, or not at all... Units would have to be "defend only" until the time a native civ "decides" Spaniards aren't "gods".

Alliances between native civs might also play a crucial role in being able to overthrow the conquistadores.

The native priesthood -- with a given number of sacrifices -- could make the attack against the "gods" possible and give native units a major "courage" bonus. The balance of the game depends on how soon the native civs can accomplish this. Past a certain point, there would be too many Spanish units showing up, and the fate of the natives would be sealed.

Also need to have some missionaries to spread Christianism (which precludes any other religion). So deep down, the religious battle rages, since the natives cannot win without the sacrificial rituals (forbidden under the Christian faith).

there were some natives that allied with the spanish to overthrow the aztec's,and later even allied with the spanish against tribes in parts of what is now the U.S. Maybe there should be a diplomacy option with spain would make things more interesting like trade and converting to christanity.

blunt3d said:

there were some natives that allied with the spanish to overthrow the aztec's they later even allied with the spanish against tribes in north america. Maybe there should be a diplomacy option with spain would make things more interesting.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's called "becoming a vassal."

All the units I build start with pox, now I have to disband my armies to stop it. Then I unloaded the mod and said '. .. .. .. . it.'

Ambreville, your suggestions are pretty much like some features of FfH2. Some units have a "fear" feature ( don't recall if it is a promo or not ) that makes the enemies to simply refuse attacking unless they have the "courage" feature....

maybe it is worth to see Kael code on this ?

r_rolo1 said:

Ambreville, your suggestions are pretty much like some features of FfH2. Some units have a "fear" feature ( don't recall if it is a promo or not ) that makes the enemies to simply refuse attacking unless they have the "courage" feature....

maybe it is worth to see Kael code on this ?

Click to expand...

Yeah, unfortunately it does look very much like it. Using Kael's code on this probably requires a modified dll.

The fear factor might be replaced with some coding that counts the number of sacrificial rituals. Once the required number is reached, the Spanish visitors cease to be gods. Until then, native units are unable to attack the Spanish units (they receive a promotion enabling the attacks). ???

Something like that anyway.

And if the sacrifices generated GG points and a GG enabled promo ( we could mod one of the already existent ) would allow the unit to fight against the Spanish?

BTW a probably easy fix: we have mayans in BtS.... why do the mayans in this mod had to aztec-like as well?

why dont you let the spanish start off with a city on cuba

r_rolo1 said:

well, as far as war is concerned, I think with Izzy zealous nature and diferent religion, war is just a matter of time....

Click to expand...

especially if they saw all the mesoamerican civs with tons of gold and gold mines... that was the reason why the spanish conquered the americas. the religious motive is only an excuse

deanej said:

I think we should have them start at peace and either have them declare war when they have more units or have a great predisposition toward war.

Click to expand...

instead of starting at war, they could have a really big predisposition to war like starting at furious, having more and more powerful units, having different religions, the mesoamericans being rich and the spanish poor... yet, a smart mesoamerican if tries really hard may avoid war with the spanish (at least for some time). perhaps giving in tribute or donating gold could have bigger bonuses in this mod

i just want to give the mesoamerican civs a chance to avoid war or to get ready for it

Jimman said:

why dont you let the spanish start off with a city on cuba

Click to expand...

cuba was only colonized much later... why dont they just conquer chitzen itza or tenonchitlan...

how about after some time it could just start spawning galleons with spanish units in the high ocean and with time, more spanish units started spawning or how about if they remake the map to include spain or the canaries?

Actually i think spain invaded from cuba.

But not in 600 AD, that is for sure....

maybe you could have one city build units for the spanish and then at a certain time peroid a couple of galleons will spawn.

That is what the mod makes now... the big problem is that the spawned force is completely inadequate ( 1 galleon with 1 settler and 2 explorers ) landing in a land where everybody is in war with you. They are even prone to die to barbs pretty easily

The River's in this mod bug me alot. Whoever placed them forgot the difference between source graphics and mouth graphics, resulting into inland dealtas that go nowhere.

I also think the map should be made over again, as it is too small and lacks enough resources.