Poland strategy guide

What is it with the salt? I played poland several times now, never gotten it. Instead, tons of Incense. The civ I find much more likely to get salt is ethiopia!

Thank you so much btw for this guide and especially alcaras for writing it up in a way I could understand it, it has really helped me seeing what I was doing wrong with this new expansion and I am back on emperor.
 
Thanks for the guide but please get a different screenshot as it's not an example for every map.

You have 2 wheat 3 salt start with 5 unique luxuries + FOY within ~12 tiles of your cap and plenty of food everywhere. This start is beyond godly.

Can you provide an example where you have no wheat/cows, not as many hills and only 4 unique luxuries in the 12 tile range, maybe add an aggressive neighbor too. I believe that would represent "every map" a lot better.

I'm not questioning the guide i just don't like the beyond godly start as an example for Poland specific guide.
 
I have been doing exactly this startegy now in several mp games and havent lost a single duel following it vs the 2 best players in world.

The sp sequence work with other civs as poland same good and land doesnt define a strategie but just few turn fater or slower win.

You have 2 wheat 3 salt start with 5 unique luxuries + FOY within ~12 tiles of your cap and plenty of food everywhere. This start is beyond godly.

I commented on this before - the land is obviously good but godly starts involve mountain and deserts - both is missing - so land is just little bit above average (was my 1. roll btw)

Also I posted starting save - your welcome to do same good/better

Can you provide an example where you have no wheat/cows, not as many hills and only 4 unique luxuries in the 12 tile range, maybe add an aggressive neighbor too.

i ll try upload of mp games with this strategy, I dont do sp videos anymore as 10h+ games are imo just too long and boring - cant believe some1 is really interested in see me click tiles - while mp allways involves same action.
 
i ll try upload of mp games with this strategy, I dont do sp videos anymore as 10h+ games are imo just too long and boring - cant believe some1 is really interested in see me click tiles - while mp allways involves same action.

Believe me when I say that a lot of people would really like to see you click tiles for hours on end. There's always something that you can learn from someone better than you and that has a strong appeal to the hardcore strategists and enthusiasts among us. Even if you did absolutely no commentary, no explanation, no nothing it's still something that would appeal to a bunch of us.
 
Gonna try the save, should be a fun game to play tho i doubt i can come close to you :p

Looking forward to see it in MP action.
 
Regarding the OP's starting position, I've been trying this strat on deity twice - just got BNW - and happened to roll what I consider to be below average starts (namely : lots of jungle tiles needing a detour to bronze working, absolutely no luck with ruins - no culture ruin in particular, very few hills, and very little room to expand due to bottlenecks and AI rate of expansion being way higher than in the OP's game).

Long story short : even with such drawbacks, this strat leads to a pretty solid position. I, however, missed the Oracle by 2 turns on both games (AI build it in the early 70's on standard speed - btw I don't know if this is to be expected, because pre-BNW Oracle was rarely build that early, and was often available up to turn 110 - or pure bad luck).

But I'm convinced that with more careful micro-management, I could have shaved off those 2 turns. So the point is the OP's strat for Poland, while obviously showcased with an incredibly good start, does seem reliable even with sub-par starts. I didn't finish the above-mentioned games so I can't claim the strat led me to winning positions, but I certainly was better off by turn 80 than in most of my pre-BNW deity games.
 
I find Oracle actually really easy to get. I find it rare that the AI goes for it, not sure why. Early 70's for Oracle to me seems unlucky. But I have a suspicion it's just luck, and maybe what AIs are being rolled (I believe they have differing tech priorities).

Just like I've seen Petra go at sub 50s, or post 100, but I think that depends on if any AI started near a desert or not.
 
Maya will beeline Theology, to unlock their UA, and pick up early Oracle along the way. They're usually the only real threat for early Oracle.
 
How to deal with barbs in the early game on Quick (note, this is normal barbs, not raging)? They get archers and hand axes (and later spears) out very fast, which chew through scouts and warriors and then they pillage improvements like mad. With Archery coming so late in the tech order, it gets ugly. Even with Archery, it's still ugly, especially if there's vast badlands where they can spawn (e.g. snow and tundra).

Examples on Emperor:
http://i.imgur.com/URAxWl8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UZC0Egi.jpg (this is after clearing a camp early game too)
http://i.imgur.com/3KgXj0A.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/n66VzDn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/l74CAuV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dqsbmi7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5OhtlaU.jpg

Anyone share tips on handling them?
 
Anyone share tips on handling them?

I always start my games with construction. Always. And archery comes second after pottery.

I guess you could also detour to bronze working for some spears, if you 're alone and don't want early construction. Or the wheel/horseback riding. Get some good units if you don't want it to be a pain, basically.
 
its been mentioned few pages before - at lower difficulties were ai doesnt settle land fast and mostly kill barbs itself you have to add 1-2 archers in bo somewhere -

maybe i should edit this into 1. page guide.
This slows other things slightly down what doesnt matter at all because ai is also slowed down - a lot.
Construction is definatly NOT NEEDED
 
Maya will beeline Theology, to unlock their UA, and pick up early Oracle along the way. They're usually the only real threat for early Oracle.

I would like to add Egypt as a real threat for Oracle, they beeline for Burial tombs, they unlock in Philosophy also, and Egypt loves wonders that add to culture.

Believe me when I say that a lot of people would really like to see you click tiles for hours on end. There's always something that you can learn from someone better than you and that has a strong appeal to the hardcore strategists and enthusiasts among us. Even if you did absolutely no commentary, no explanation, no nothing it's still something that would appeal to a bunch of us.

Seeing tommynt micromanage is educational, but i guess mp is as good to see as sp would be.
 
Tommynt how did you prevent Japan from taking your second city slot at turn 29?
Is there even a way to do this, or did this just not happen in your game?

---

So I figured this one out. For some reason, if you move the capital by one tile, Japan will take your second city spot, while if you settle in place they won't. Guess this is some internal AI decision based on proximity.
 

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Hey Tommy, how did you go about finishing 3 Trees by turn 150? Did you have Cultured CSes helping you along at all? That seems exceptionally fast even if you are powering through the tech tree. I'm basically wondering if there's anything about culture that you emphasized on. Even when I get Sistine Chapel (which I usually do, the AI doesn't seem to like it very much) I can never finish all 3 tress that quickly.

Also, what do you do with the Liberty GP? I normally take a GE to rush Piza and then use that GE to get Porcelin Tower (or I just rush PT, it depends) but maybe that's much worse than another GS? Not really sure.

Another general question. I've never really looked in to the math on Observatories and when it's worth teching up to them. Like, we all know that you need to beeline Unis, Schools, Labs etc. but I'm never certain about when I'm supposed to grab Obs. I feel as though I probably wait too long but it's never clear to me when it's worthwhile to take the detour. Are there any rules of thumb?

Finally, what do you do with your spies? I don't think that stealing techs is wise if you're looking to stay peaceful right? I feel like I'm wasting time by putting them in city states and protecting my techs though. What do you normally do with yours?
 
Another general question. I've never really looked in to the math on Observatories and when it's worth teching up to them. Like, we all know that you need to beeline Unis, Schools, Labs etc. but I'm never certain about when I'm supposed to grab Obs. I feel as though I probably wait too long but it's never clear to me when it's worthwhile to take the detour. Are there any rules of thumb?

They are very much worth it! Maybe if only 1 noncap city got a mountain for it like in this game u can skip them to after Public Schools, otherwise definatly get them right after unis. Just check before if u might get into rati tree straight if u tech Sistine chapel tech (which is like 6 turns faster usually) or have to "waste" 1 sp cause u loose these 5-6 turns to get into ren era.

Hey Tommy, how did you go about finishing 3 Trees by turn 150? Did you have Cultured CSes helping you along at all? That seems exceptionally fast even if you are powering through the tech tree. I'm basically wondering if there's anything about culture that you emphasized on. Even when I get Sistine Chapel (which I usually do, the AI doesn't seem to like it very much) I can never finish all 3 tress that quickly.

Well basicly u get with this strategy 4 instead 2 culture from each city instead of using tradidion only after Sistine 5 instead 2 - this double up obviously got huge impact, Oracle gives also quite some culture and well yes - if i get to choose which CS to spend money on i ll prio culture ones. But USUALLY i ll aly at least 2/3 of all CS no matter which type they are - every type is useful!
So double culture + less sp costs from liberty tree ... lets u kinda fly through Rati tree

Also, what do you do with the Liberty GP? I normally take a GE to rush Piza and then use that GE to get Porcelin Tower (or I just rush PT, it depends) but maybe that's much worse than another GS? Not really sure.

Well rushing Pisa when possible is definatly a good idea, it seem otherwise imposible to get it on deity. I m generally no big fan of RAs but with this new peaceful only possibility in BNW PT is also very much worth it.

I dont think loosing 1-2 settled academies hurt a lot.
Having 500 instead 480 bakkers at this point is hardly gamebreaking ..
 
They are very much worth it! Maybe if only 1 noncap city got a mountain for it like in this game u can skip them to after Public Schools, otherwise definatly get them right after unis. Just check before if u might get into rati tree straight if u tech Sistine chapel tech (which is like 6 turns faster usually) or have to "waste" 1 sp cause u loose these 5-6 turns to get into ren era.

Thanks. I've definitely been waiting too long on those then.

Well basicly u get with this strategy 4 instead 2 culture from each city instead of using tradidion only after Sistine 5 instead 2 - this double up obviously got huge impact, Oracle gives also quite some culture and well yes - if i get to choose which CS to spend money on i ll prio culture ones. But USUALLY i ll aly at least 2/3 of all CS no matter which type they are - every type is useful!
So double culture + less sp costs from liberty tree ... lets u kinda fly through Rati tree

To give you an idea I've played 6 Deity games so far as Poland. I've gotten Oracle and Sistine in all 6. I've gotten Pisa in the 2 that I used the GE to get and I've always gotten PT. I've never gotten Pisa by hard building it though (although I've never really tried). I managed to get CI in one game but I had 3 Salt, 2 Sheep, 2 Cows, 2 Wheat etc. so my production was absurd. I've never finished 3 Trees by turn 160 though. I'm probably just teching slightly too slowly. Even with the 5 per city x 4 cities it just never seems to be enough for me. I was wondering if there was something else that I was missing.

For the record, the only game that I've lost was one where Greece bought every city state in the world and gave them all 3k gold to put him at over 200 rep with each. He won a diplo victory a few turns before I could take off. The strategy works, I'm just trying to perfect it a bit lol. Well, that's not true, I lost another one because I was sandwiched between Monty Zulu and Greece and they all DOW'd me on turn 70ish because I was blocking the rest of the map off. My entire screen was literally filled with enemy units on every one of my tiles lol. I don't really count that game though XD.

Well rushing Pisa when possible is definatly a good idea, it seem otherwise imposible to get it on deity. I m generally no big fan of RAs but with this new peaceful only possibility in BNW PT is also very much worth it.

I dont think loosing 1-2 settled academies hurt a lot.
Having 500 instead 480 bakkers at this point is hardly gamebreaking ..

I was mostly curious as to what you personally do. I take it you just take a GS and settle it?
 
If I get liberty finisher i take obviously a GE, as said after turn 120 a academy more or less wont influence the game as much as Pisa or PT.

The question is more if getting the finisher is better as getting a SP from rati tree and that depends on game situation
 
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