Patria Grande: Civilizations of the Americas

Well, thanks to the amazing skills of whoward, the old trait is up and running! Updated on the first post...

I'd like opinions on how it balances out, is 150 culture enough for liberating a city state? is it too much? is it too few?

liberating doens't happen often enough. There needs to be a huge reward for liberating a city. Perhaps a whole free policy for doing so. Otherwise, why liberate? A city I puppet could have 150 culture at no penalty before the end of the game.

the only problem, is that it could have potential for abuse. It might encourage a player to let their ally lose cities and then liberate them later on.

i have some free time so i'm gunna test out your mod. I'll be back with some info of what happened.

edit: played a game and got a really bad start. never got to do anything instead getting rolled over by china, and wiped out. The moral: start near hills or else.
 
A free policy could indeed be too much and very exploitable... A static numeric value makes the bonus actually be less important in late game rather than in early game

edit: played a game and got a really bad start. never got to do anything instead getting rolled over by china, and wiped out. The moral: start near hills or else.

Hmn... Both Gran Colombia and Bolivia are set up with a Hybrid region priority... I suppose hills could also make sense, but both regions are actually really varied... Till now I always was with mountains and jungles hehe...
 
Late game is when you liberate cities though. It almost never happens in early game.
 
Hmn true that... if you're willing to help with testing higher values (I'm doing a test right now too), you can simply open the .lua document on your mod folder and change this:

Code:
local iLiberationCultureBoost = 150

to whatever number you think will suit best... I'm doing a test right now with 300...
 
Is there a way of editing the culture boost number with XML?

Not as of now, I could make the variable relate to something on another xml, but I'd see that as something relatively innecessary... You can edit the lua in notepad anyway.
 
It might help not to use a static number.

Like check your current era and then apply a culture amount according to that. That way you can give a lower bonus early game and a much larger bonus later game, which should help balance issues.
 
I'm attempting something, the bonus being half the culture needed for the next policy... Still haven't had a chance of testing it because its hard to find a city-state to liberate, but it might work betterly...

And... I just wanted to say that I'm holding up progress on these mods until BNW is released... The whole Ideologies and Tourism systems are likely to be included somehow in Civs to come, and existant Civs might be changed...
 
i'm still working on a game to test your civ. Right now it's going ok. I'll definitely have feedback for you.

One thing I can say for sure, Gran Columbia is going to be much better with the new stuff in BNW, however I don't have any reason to think that they will need to be reworked.
 
OK, I've got a new idea... Instead of a fixed or percentage culture boost by liberation; why not a 20 turn Golden Age? It is far less exploitable (Golden Ages are not stacking) and given the odds of finding a City-State to liberate, it is a worthy gift...

Also, new ideas for an Argentina Civilization, inspired by the BNW New Civs thread... The thing is, Argentina would be heavily citizen-oriented; given the strenght given to lower class inmigrants, empowering the "descamisados".

Argentina Civilization
  • Leader: Eva Perón
  • UA: Argentinian Pride: May use a new :c5citizen: Citizen Type, the Descamisado. Cities provide slots for Descamisados, which provide +1 :c5food: Food, :c5production: Production, :c5gold: Gold, and :c5culture: culture. They also provide :c5greatperson: Great Person Points for a random Great Person.
  • UU: Gaucho Replacement for the Cavalry. Has a higher withdraw chance and can move after attacking. It may not be upgraded, but can be switched to Worker with gold.
  • UB: Hotel de Inmigrantes Replacement for the Hospital? Increases Growth rate and generates +1 culture per Argentine Citizen.


    OR

  • UU: Tango Musician Replacement for the Great Musician (in BNW, for G&K it would be for the Great Artist). May be produced expending one citizen. (like settlers)
 
Again, does the culture bonus with Gran Colombia only work with city states, or do cities that were previously conquered work as well?

I think the Tango Musician idea is hugely OP, as you could basically farm them and end up with permanent Golden Age or landmarks coming out of your ears. Then again, I prefer the actual idea to the Hotel de Inmigrantes, which seems to me to make Argentina "Immigrantland" in Civ and I'm sure there's more to Argentina than that.
 
Again, does the culture bonus with Gran Colombia only work with city states, or do cities that were previously conquered work as well?

Well, you can liberate cities by civilizations, but only in the case the civilization is already exting, but yes... it should apply there too...

I think the Tango Musician idea is hugely OP, as you could basically farm them and end up with permanent Golden Age or landmarks coming out of your ears. Then again, I prefer the actual idea to the Hotel de Inmigrantes, which seems to me to make Argentina "Immigrantland" in Civ and I'm sure there's more to Argentina than that.

Mind you, the OR in the Tango Musician was actually for the Gaucho UU hehe... But yes, in order to work, the Musician would also require tons of production, pretty much like a wonder...

Argentina IS highly defined by Inmigration though, even Tango is a product of that... Aaanyway, I suppose the UB could also be changed to a Tango Hall which gives benefits to Descamisados (as a ways of interacting with the UA)... But I also like the Hotel idea, is definitively something unique in Argentina...

Also, Eva Peron's leader screen is alive:

 
Can you imagine her laying waste to your civilisation?

It just seems like having literally a hotel as the UB is a) a bit boring and b) something that cries out for BNW support... I like the Tango Hall idea though.
 
Can you imagine her laying waste to your civilisation?

It just seems like having literally a hotel as the UB is a) a bit boring and b) something that cries out for BNW support... I like the Tango Hall idea though.

Heh, ok.. Will think about it... The biggest issue with a Tango Hall is that, after all, its too obvious... The Hotel de Inmigrantes was not only a Hotel, but also a way of applying social policies with inmigrants, granting them jobs and a safe coming... Its not so much a tourist stuff, but rather a socially useful thing... But well, we shall see...

About Evita, well, can you imagine Ghandi laying waste to your civilization? (And he does nuke everyone out hehe)... Anyway, I'm going to try something different with her, maybe even model her (but of course, the application will still be 2D, 3D leader modeling is by now rather impossible still)... But should that not work, well I already have one made...
 
My only problem with the Immigrant's Hotel is that it's an actual singular complex, not a type of building that was common throughout the country. It's more fitting for a National Wonder than a Unique Building.
 
My only problem with the Immigrant's Hotel is that it's an actual singular complex, not a type of building that was common throughout the country. It's more fitting for a National Wonder than a Unique Building.

That's true and a good point... So, I'll make a similar solution to what I did with Israel, the Inmigrant's Hotel will be an optional National Wonder (or Hotel de Inmigrantes a World Wonder), and the civ itself will have a Tango Club or something like that...
 
That sounds a lot better. PS what did you do with Israel?
 
That sounds a lot better. PS what did you do with Israel?

Oh right, I forgot saying that... Well they used to have Synagogues as an UB, many said that it actually should be more of a Belief that allows Synagogues to be purchased with faith rather than an UB... So, the new UB is a Yeshivá, and Synagogues got their own belief...
 
Alright I finished my games. As it turns out I ended up getting killed in all three, but I still had fun. Perhaps I'm playing on too high difficulty?

Game 1: I mentioned this one, before. I had a bad start in the jungle, with absolutely no hills nearby. I didn't have problems with gold, or food, but I had no production.

game 2: My goal in this game was to play as Simon to get a feel for him.

This game was going well for a while. I started near the top center of a Pangaea, with Songhai to the west, the Mayans to the southwest on a peninsula, and Ottoman to the south. Two other civs, China and Kilwa, were far away.

In this game we all ended up picking sides, Me (Columbia), Mayans, and China was on one, with Songhai, Ottoman and Kilwa in the other.

What I was hoping was for one of the civs to lose a lot of cities and for me to capture (and liberate) them later on. But as it turned out Songhai had it in for me. Pacal wanted to help and we declared war together, but the AI is too stupid to actually know how to attack, so he sat there doing nothing.

Eventually a joint DOW from Ottoman and Songhai wore me down and defeated me.

What I learned:

Simon's UA doesn't help in early game. This means in a normal match he's going to be average, unless he gets lucky. This is why I think Liberating cities should give more culture, since it doesn't happen very often.

Simons UU - The Libertador is really fun. I have to hand it to you, you really made something interesting.

However I need to say this. Being able to built a fort outside your empire is bullcrap.
Let me explain. In my match, the Songhai had a Natural wonder and Ivory right next to each other. Right after I had peace with them, I used my Libertador and built a fort right next to his empire, taking both the Ivory and the Natural Wonder.

If that happened to me, I would be pretty mad. The problem is, stealing land needs to have some kind of counter play. In other wards, there needs to be something that can deter the Gran Colombia player from doing it all the time. A normal great general doesn't have as much freedom as the Libertador does, limiting what it can steal.

My ideas. There are just things that popped into my head.

1. Make it so the Libertador can't steal land during a peace treaty. At the very least, DOW should be an option for stealing land.

2. Or make it so that only when the Libertador steals land, it's an instant DOW. That will make the Simon player think twice before he does it. Stealing land this way is kind of a mean thing to do anyways....

Either way, there had to be something to make the Simon player think before he steals land with consequences for doing it, after all this is a strategy game.

I never did get a chance to test out the Llanero unit. :(

Game 3:

In this one I wanted to test out how AI Simon acted. I picked Carthage and soon met Simon on my continent the the east of me, with the Inca south of him.

As soon as I met Simon, and after I had met a few other players, I denounced him, just to make him mad at me. My goal was to see how bad a hostile Simon was.

As it turns out he's not so bad. He frequently attacked city-states, which surprised me, because I imagined him as someone that would be a bro most of the time.

Does AI Simon, take advantage of his UA?

Either way, he wasn't hard to kill. I had help from the Inca too making it easy.

Unfortunately after Simon was gone, the Inca DoWed me and killed me. On well.

What I learned:

Simon doesn't seem to be a huge warmonger, but he is a city state bully. In this game he was down a lot so I didn't really see how he acted. I don't think he will become the runaway civ in many games.

Last, I still like the UA. My favorite idea is giving half culture needed for a policy, but as noted, it may have room for abuse. Worst case is the UA gets scraped.

I do really like your civ and I'm looking forward to seeing Argentina.

I hope this helped you. Good luck
 
The fact that tiles that are far away from a city can't be worked is in itself a reason not to spam Libertadores. Plus, they're Great People too, and Bolivar isn't Wu Zetian.
 
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