Israel, Philistines and Biblical Civilizations

Leugi said:
I don't know about that though... Mostly, Jewish Prophets usually came in order to denounce what was wrong and against their Law, and announce a future prosperity with a Messiah, so they could technically be related more with dark ages rather than a golden age...
Click to expand...

Well, I guess it could represent the kings listening to their counsel for once...

A few things occur to me...

Apparently, the pre-Deuteronomic Israelites worshipped a greater variety of heavenly beings than later Israelites. Perhaps the shrine could be renamed Asherah (no change to statistics, just a rename of the building).


The Jewish religion (prior to Jesus of Nazareth) was pretty insular. It was generally only found where Jews had emigrated, and they didn't really proselytize. Perhaps we should give a good incentive for keeping the prophets at home?

So, perhaps, just perhaps (and I'm going out on a limb here), maybe a +15% combat bonus for Jewish units within 2 tiles of a holy site? Similar to the Polynesian bonus for fighting near a Moai, but stronger because of the greater investment required.
 
OK... I believe these are going to be the changes I'll make once I get the time:

Israel Civilization
Leader: David (Will improve the leaderscene image a bit, and add peace music with a harp)
UA: Holy Scriptures: After discovering Writing, receives +2 faith for each Specialist. Holy Sites increase combat strenght. (Or, if I don't manage, Great Prophets will be gifted on each era)
UU: Maccabee: Pretty much as it is right now.
UB: Yeshivá: Replacement for University, +3 Faith.

And aside from those changes, new beliefs will be added, that could fit for an Israel playstyle:

New Pantheon Belief:
Promised Land: Just a rename of Religious Settlements.
New Founder Belief:
Holy Temple: Holy City yields +5 faith, +1production and +1 happiness, and increased combat strenght for cities that follow this religion.
New Follower Belief:
Synagogue: Use faith to purchase Synagogues (+1 Faith, +4 Culture, +1 Happiness, Scientist Specialist Slot)
 
New Version Available!

Pretty much changed all that was mentioned in the previous post. But had some difficulties on the new trait, first, the whole improvement changes needed an override for the Great Prophet to work, and as such it was too odd as it wouldn't show the new UB, so went on with the Free Prophet on each era idea.

It seems that when one gifts a Great Prophet through lua, it comes without religion, and as such only works for making holy-sites... So, I had to find a work-around, which actually improves a lot of the gameplay, making the Israel Civ far more unique (it is almost a variation of the Mayan's Long Count).

Every new Era, a notification will appear, telling you that you can get a Free Great Person from Faith. If there are no policies that allow for certain Great People, you'll only be able of getting a Free Prophet; but if you have, say Commerce, the popup I had to use also allows you to buy a Great Merchant... This is because I used the "ChangeNumFaithGreatPeople" function so I could gift mostly Great Prophets...

Good news about this, is that it does give Israel a sense of uniqueness that works very well.
 
I love the update and I love your civilizations. They seem so official, it doesn't seem out of place when they pop up in my games.
 
Okay a couple of concerns:

1) The Israel music stops after the first go through and is replaced by the generic music.
2) I think anyone can get the Synagogue since it lists the prerequisite tech as Philosophy while none of the other religious buildings list a prereq.

EDIT: Never mind on number 2. Went straight for philosophy and couldn't buy it without the belief.
 
turingmachine said:
Your new David and Yeshiva icons look really really good. Did you make them?
Click to expand...

Yep, I'm learning :D hehe... The David icon was particularly hard for some odd reason though, I had to attempt 4 different poses...

InsanelyApple said:
Okay a couple of concerns:

1) The Israel music stops after the first go through and is replaced by the generic music.
2) I think anyone can get the Synagogue since it lists the prerequisite tech as Philosophy while none of the other religious buildings list a prereq.

EDIT: Never mind on number 2. Went straight for philosophy and couldn't buy it without the belief.
Click to expand...

1) That's odd... It doesn't happen here... The only explanation I would find is that somehow the SoundtrackTag in the Civilization xml isn't working... Does it happen all the time, or only every once in a while?

2) Ooops, it should anyway not have the prerequisite, it seems I forgot about that... Anyway, good news is that Faith buildings don't depend on that at all... But in the next hour I will upload a new fixed version of that...
 
I'm not sure that I like having this mod add new beliefs. Don't get me wrong, the new beliefs look good, but I like to play a new civ using the mechanics in game (Besides the ones that are part of the civ)

I like the new beliefs but I think they should be a separate mod, so I can choose if I want to have them in my game without not having Israel as well.
 
Leugi said:
1) That's odd... It doesn't happen here... The only explanation I would find is that somehow the SoundtrackTag in the Civilization xml isn't working... Does it happen all the time, or only every once in a while?
Click to expand...

It just started working all of a sudden. Just that first time it didn't. I restarted the game about 5 times and the music still works. I'll tell you if I run into that problem again.
 
New thought. I play as Israel often but occasionally Jerusalem is a city state in my games so it will pick a random city from any city list. (The first time I played it was Bethlehem, but this play through it is Samosata, a Greek city.) Could you possibly make it where the mod changes the CS Jerusalem to something else? If you need help, Wikipedia has a list of holy cities.
 
ubergeneral said:
I'm not sure that I like having this mod add new beliefs. Don't get me wrong, the new beliefs look good, but I like to play a new civ using the mechanics in game (Besides the ones that are part of the civ)

I like the new beliefs but I think they should be a separate mod, so I can choose if I want to have them in my game without not having Israel as well.
Click to expand...

InsanelyApple said:
New thought. I play as Israel often but occasionally Jerusalem is a city state in my games so it will pick a random city from any city list. (The first time I played it was Bethlehem, but this play through it is Samosata, a Greek city.) Could you possibly make it where the mod changes the CS Jerusalem to something else? If you need help, Wikipedia has a list of holy cities.
Click to expand...

Ok, thanks lots for the suggestions, as a way of showing my appreciation... New Version!:
  • Replaced the City-State of Jerusalem, with Ife. Which was the ancient holy city of the Yoruba people in Africa, which is interesting and was nice to include (and is also a Middle-East-Africa city-style).
  • Separated the Civilization mod with the New Beliefs. Both will download together still, but you may now choose to not use one or another.

Click on the charts to download, and enjoy! :D

​
 
I think it might be better to switch the Cathedral and Synagogue effects around...
 
How is the Synagogue different from the Cathedral, apart from the extra culture? Is it more expensive?
 
orikos said:
And Kind David had red hair, not brown hair
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Eh, I doubt that. The verse that is coming from is 1 Samuel 6:12 which says: "And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the Lord said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he." (KJV) The key word is ruddy, which in the original Hebrew is "admowniy" which means "reddish (of the hair or the complexion)." It seems more reasonable that he had a florid face rather than red hair, I mean he was an Israelite after all. He probably just had black hair like everyone else.


Sorry, just had to address that, but awesome job OP. It looks like you really put in a lot of work, and it looks really nice. I'm looking forward to downloading it and trying it out.
 
wigwam said:
How is the Synagogue different from the Cathedral, apart from the extra culture? Is it more expensive?
Click to expand...

Cathedral gives 2 doves and 3 pens (is that what you call culture points?). Synagogue gives 1 dove and 4 pens. Synagogues are like cathedrals extreme.
 
Homusubi said:
Cathedral gives 2 doves and 3 pens (is that what you call culture points?). Synagogue gives 1 dove and 4 pens. Synagogues are like cathedrals extreme.
Click to expand...

The Cathedral only gives one faith (dove). The Synagogue is the exact same building +1 culture.
 
wigwam said:
The Cathedral only gives one faith (dove). The Synagogue is the exact same building +1 culture.
Click to expand...

Yep, it was my mistake...

So, how could we differentiate the Synagogues?... Of course I'm going for a more Cultural bonus...

I've been thinking something odd, like giving Synagogues a Scribe Specialist, which would yield +1 Faith and +2 Culture and work towards a Great Prophet, whilst removing the happiness bonus of Synagogues... Thoughts?
 
The Scribe should work towards a Messiah, but every time he gets within one point of generating Him, the cost goes up by 100. Har har, bad Jewish joke. Sorry.

A building that can produce Great Prophets would definitely be interesting—how would that interact with regular GP generation? Would the Faith cost of a GP go up when one popped from the Synagogue, and vice-versa?

If you wanted a different idea, I think I saw somebody else propose a Synagogue building that generated Science; you could also do Culture and/or Faith per Citizen (all of the existing religious buildings—maybe excepting the Cathedral—favor wide empires, so a building that explicitly favored big cities would fill a niche nicely).
 
wigwam said:
A building that can produce Great Prophets would definitely be interesting—how would that interact with regular GP generation? Would the Faith cost of a GP go up when one popped from the Synagogue, and vice-versa?
Click to expand...

I doubt it, it seems to me both would be different counters...

BUT, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to test, maybe the Prophet counter is a different built in version of the GP counter, but uses the same system as is the same unit...

wigwam said:
If you wanted a different idea, I think I saw somebody else propose a Synagogue building that generated Science; you could also do Culture and/or Faith per Citizen (all of the existing religious buildings—maybe excepting the Cathedral—favor wide empires, so a building that explicitly favored big cities would fill a niche nicely).
Click to expand...

That's also a nice idea, which could fit well...
 
Hi there, I really enjoy your mod. The icons are very good, except for the synagogue one. I also agree that it's overpowered. Maybe make +1 faith, +1 culture and +3 happiness for this building..
 
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