SGOTM 14 - Kakumeika

AlanH

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Welcome to your BtS SGOTM 14 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

You can find the Game Details in the first post of the Maintenance Thread. If any changes occur in the game settings or rules, I shall post them in that thread, and edit that post.

Please wait until your team leader/administrator/scribe has reserved a couple of top posts in this thread for game admin information. Then post here to let your team know you have arrived.

Good luck, and remember rule #1 - ENJOY THE GAME!
 
Welcome everyone!

The Rules of Play

1. All standard GOTM rules apply. Mainly, we get 1 shot, no replays, period!
2. No viewing other team threads, period!
3. Have FUN, compete fairly, argue your points until your fingers bleed, or you convince a majority that your plan is superior!

The following rules have been stolen from Murky Waters and editted, all credit given to Erkon.

The following rules apply to all players in the Kakumeika SGOTM 14 team.

Ensure that you have read and understood the rules provided by the administrators (C-IV SGOTM Reference Thread)* and follow any ongoing discussion at the SGOTM 14 Maintenance Thread

The next player shall post a ”got it” within 24 hours of the upload of the previous game. Else the next available player has the right to post the ”got it”. These rules replaces guideline 6 and 7 in the C-IV SGOTM Reference Thread. To ensure a smooth handover, please post the ”got it” within 24 hours.

After posting the "got it" please put up a roughdraft of a Pre-Play-Plan (PPP) within 24 hours of the "got it". If you can't for whatever reason put up a roughdraft of your PPP within 24 hours of the got it please request to postpone or pass your turn to the next player.

What is a PPP? (Pre-Play-Plan)
A short plan for your turns set, including the following topics: city builds, units moves/military activity per theatre, worker actions/tile improvements, research, civic switches, diplomatic actions, espionage, game events that would cause you to stop playing (like an unexpected DOW) and misc. The level of detail might be high in the beginning when there are not many cities/units. So your PPP might include detailed turn by turn tile useage as well for key cities. The level of detail will decrease slightly as the game gets more complex.
***feel free ask other team members to work out some details in your intial PPP, like "hey bcool can you work the best tile useage and whipping to get the Great Library in my turnset?***

After the PPP is posted give the team at least 24 hours to respond. Do you best to respond quickly to any feedback by editting your PPP or by posting why you disagree. We hope to keep this response time to maximum of 48 hours, however if there is still a lot of disargeement after 48 hours, I'll extend this discussion period.

After the 24 hours (minimum) discussion time, post a time 12-24 hours in advance of when you intend to play to allow others to either follow by online chat or just to be online for posts.

We are also encouraging players to chat online if possible during their turnsets so an availiable team member can be consulted for significant unexpected events or just to be included for exciting developments as you play. This may not be possible for everyone and we will exchange contact info for those interested by pm.

We also encourage you to stop playing a turnset and upload if something unexpected and/or unplanned for happens.

No-one is forced to play a turn set. You don’t need to announce the reason for skipping a turn set. Any players can swap turn sets if they announce the swap in time. Since the captain has a memory capacity of a demented gold fish, I urge you to make it clear when you intend to skip a turn. Please post as quick as possible to reduce unnecessary confusion and delays.

Please use smilies and emotes in your posts as much as possible. Jokes, humor, sarcasm and offensive language can and will be misinterpreted. Remember that written text is a poor method to convey feelings. Several of us are not native to the English language. The differences in culture is also a source for misunderstanding. If you get upset by a post, please wait a few hours before you respond.

Don’t be afraid to post things that may appear stupid or evident. Each player have strengths and weaknesses. Don’t be afraid that other members will think you are stupid. As a captain, I am obliged to post the most stupid questions to ensure that the rest of the team appear brighter.

We hope we can come to a consensus on most issues, but if we can not it should be decided by the active player after the team has debated the issue. If you run into a situation where you need advice, please upload the save and let the rest of us take a look. Or post a quick request for advice. It’s better to delay the game a day than build the Globe Theatre in the wrong city. Don't be afraid to admit a mistake or off-plan move as well. We all will make some especially with difficulty of tracking so many details.

Don’t promote units until they are close to action (unless the promotion increases movement). If you are unsure of suitable promotions, don’t hesitate to bring that up for discussion.

Don’t play intoxicated (from alcohol, drugs or smoke). Don’t play when you are too tired. Or when you have your kids/wife screaming at you.

Try to keep track of the diplomatic events each turn, and visit each city regularly. It’s mandatory to check cities that grow or have a border expansion. Remember that the number of happy people will change due to changes in war weariness (WW), gained/lost resources etc. Keep track of specialists. We don’t want to pollute the great person pool. Please respect the micro management plans.

Please contact AlanH if your game crashes, even if you can repeat all your moves.

If you PM the team, please ensure every one receives a copy.

Remember that a lot of players read what we post. Don't be rude or disrespectful to any player not on our team.

Try to run a test game or two before we start. Your experience may either confirm or contradict some one else's, and is therefore valuable.

The goals for Kakumeika are
1) to get the GOLD!
2) learn something through exhaustive debate about the fine details :)
3) have fun ('cause learning is fun :) )

Ensure that your autosave config is set to save every turn. Don't forget to enable all HOF settings in case you lost them during a dual-install or whatever reason. And set the first-turn-setting to first turn = 0. This will reduce future confusion.

When you state the turn/year research is completed (or any other event), please use the turn/year that is stated by the event log. Research for example is completed at the end of a turn. The pop up thus shows the turn after the tech is learned.

When the game is over, and the staff has confirmed it's over, you are free to read other team threads. When their game is over, and the staff has confirmed it, you are free to post in their threads as well.

Mostly stolen from other teams....please ask/say if something doesn't feel right or you have a different idea!

Sun Tzu Wu... up first
mabraham... on deck
Tachywaxon... in the hole
Walter_Wolf... waiting
Kaitzilla... waiting
frogdude... waiting
bcool... waiting
shulec... waiting
 
1st turn set T0-T10 played by Sun Tzu Wu
tech animal handling,
builds started worker
Toto explored first SE then along the southern coast. He stumbled onto a lion heading west.

2nd turn set T10-T20 played by mabraham
Toto, while standing on a hill decided to risk defending against the lion at 80% odds without a combat I promotion in the hopes of getting woodsman II faster. Toto was killed. R.I.P.
tech finished animal handling, mining
builds: finished worker and a replacement warrior for Toto
worker (Eiffel) built a sheep pasture
 
This post taken over for AI reference (thanks in large part to Tachy's detective work)

AI Personalities decoded

Wicked North (fake Genghis) ---> true Izabella
Good North (fake Elizabeth)

Wicked West (fake Monty)---> true Mansa
Good West (fake Gandhi)

Wicked South (Shaka)
Good South (Mansa)

Wicked East (Ragnar) ---> true Cyrus
Good East (Asoka) ----> true Tokugawa

AI hidden diplo modifiers

Wicked North (fake Genghis)
at +4 still cautious
at +5 Pleased
Hidden modifier -2
Good North (Elizabeth)
at +6 Pleased
at +5 pleased
+1 Cautious

Wicked West (Monty)
+0 Cautious
+2 cautious
Good West (Gandhi)
+4 Pleased
+3 Pleased

Wicked South (Shaka)
+2 cautious
+1 cautious
Good South (Mansa)
+2 cautious
+1 cautious
Wicked East (Ragnar)
-3 Annoyed
+1 cautious
Good East (Asoka)
-1 Annoyed
+1 cautious
(at least a -2 hidden modifier)

original post
Spoiler :
Issues to discuss

1) the flying camera and other ways to explore the fog

What do we want to do? Use it or not?

2) Where should we settle?

I'll wait to contribute to the debate on these issues.
 
Hi again all! Welcome to all my new and old teammates! I'm looking forward to playing hard and having fun.

Scouting is obviously key in any such game - particularly here where we have basically no ability to infer anything concrete about the scenario. So, I'm keen for an initial worker or two, a handful of warriors to scout/fog-bust/defend and a settler or two while we work out which way is up (REXing, conquering, etc).

I'm happy for us to use either or both of the flying camera trick or the radar trick. They're available in the game, their use can't be prohibited, and at least some other teams will use them. I don't have any proficiency at either, however.

I like settling 1W. I guess the leading alternative is "settle-in-place" (SIP). 1E sucks because we miss both cows and corn despite getting +1:hammers: from the central tile. 1NE sucks because we can't build the workboat for the crabs yet. All have fresh water and river access for possible early trade routes to a second city to the NW.

Settling 1W allows us access to sheep (3:food:1:commerce: -> 5:food:2:commerce:), cows (1:food:2:hammers:->3:food:3:hammers:) and corn (3:food:->5:food: - assuming it does not have access to fresh water). These are the best tiles going around, and there's only one site that can get all three. Later, if we settle along those rivers, one (or maybe both) of the sheep and corn might get shared with another city. This site also has 12 BFC forests, three potential mines (two on river), at least five cottageable grassland (maybe more to the west, can't fog-gaze much yet), spices to work (not that great). Its chief down side is that we might find ourselves settling on some metal.

SIP gets us only cows and corn, but gains the oasis. Early, the oasis is worth +1:commerce: with respect to the sheep, and once improved the sheep is +2:food:. The oasis cannot be improved. So while there may be a few windows where the ability to work the oasis with a newly-grown population point would be a good thing, I think the faster growth of a city with all three great tiles is better. SIP also gets 13 BFC forests, three potential mines (two on river), seven cottageable grassland and spice to work.

Our second city is somewhat likely to pick up whichever of sheep/cows/oasis that our capital does not use. I think getting the three best tiles (sheep+cows+corn) into the capital to accelerate its growth and production of workers+settlers will get the best value from the land.

Other thoughts
Being charismatic, monuments give us +1:) so Stonehenge is a quite decent proposition. Monuments cost 30:hammers: and Stonehenge 120:hammers:, so we get the hammers back pretty fast, in terms of raw value and border pops. We'd need a plan for the Great Prophet or two - bulbing Monarchy while doing Oracle->CoL/CS? Then build poly-warriors for happiness, pop a couple of GScientists for academies and cottage it up?

Starting tech path: How about AH -> mining -> BW -> mysticism?
Our starting techs should be Fishing and Agriculture if we are the Americans.
 
Issues to discuss

1) the flying camera and other ways to explore the fog

What do we want to do? Use it or not?

2) Where should we settle?

I'll wait to contribute to the debate on these issues.

I would like to add a:

1b.) Where should our warrior move?
3.) What do we expect to be the best victory condition?

I think this will play a role in our decision as to where we settle.

P.S. Hello all! I am looking forward to hearing all of your great ideas and strategies for our game. I have a casual acquaintance with bcool, Kaitzilla, Sun Tzu Wu, Tachywaxon and WalterWolf from the HoF. I am looking forward to getting acquainted with you non-HoF guys, frogdude and mabraham. I would like you all to take an unspoken "Nice Job!" when I don't say it with my comments. I know we will all give considerable amount of thought in all of our plays and actions. Also know that when I disagree with something that you say, that I really mean, "I agree with what you are saying, but..."
 
Kaitzilla checking in!

Like Shulec, I know a few of you from HOF forums. I am really looking forward to collaborative Game_of_the_Month with all of you guys/gals and want to thank you for letting me join up.


I'll go ahead and repost the game's starting screenshot from the Maintenance Thread:




As to capital site, 1 west does indeed look good. It gives 3 good food sites, plus a 3hammer hill right away.
In addition, it opens up the coast for a 2nd city, perhaps 1SE of the oasis tile. That 2nd city could share Corn and hills with the capital, work the oasis tile, work the crabs, have sea access, and will form a trade route with a road on the empty plains hill to the capital I think.
 
Last edited:
Settling Site:

Settling 1W seems optimal from the original image of the start. However, we may still want to discuss alternatives.

Start File:

In my opinion, someone should upload the start file when its available so everyone can look at it. When you look at it, just be sure to not do anything that's not reversible, like move a unit, or anything else that can't be un-done. Seeing the real start may allow us to make a good guess at which map script generated it. Obviously, test maps should be made with the map script that generated the start. Even if we can't be sure, we must make our best educated guess about which map script was used. Just from the start image, my guess is still Lakes Map (10 plots of connected water is enough for a small Ocean).

Flying Camera and Radar Trick:

I still don't know what the flying camera or the radar trick/fog gazing is either, but we should use both; they appear to be methods of revealing the height aspect of terrain without using exploring units and turns. These terrain revealing methods can not be detected and can not be prevented either; any team that shuns them is a foolish to do so, unless these methods don't actually work. I'm still skeptical of their usefulness, but 100% in favor of using them in any case. Here's a reference on the radar trick that I found:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=412600&page=35

Post 684 claims that the "peak, hill, flat terrain or water" (height) attribute of each plot can be determined by the slope of the go-to paths over unrevealed plots.

I tried finding a post by ZPV in Murky Waters' SGOTM-10 thread where he uses this technique, but came up empty. I did search for "fog" and found the following vague reference which has new meaning when the existence of the radar trick is known:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8366432&postcount=177

I'm guessing that "fog gazing" means the same thing as "radar trick". I'm also assuming that fog in this context means unrevealed areas.

It shouldn't be too hard to determine whether the radar trick/fog gazing actually works. Just try it on any test start and see whether you can guess the height of the unrevealed terrain based on the slope of the Go-To Path.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
I was on the fence about the flying camera with all the controversy, but I'm fine with using it as the decision by the admin is to allow it. I have a little experience with it and I can see the potential value. Although its value will be a bit less in this game I expect than it had in the last SGOTM.

In addition to the 1W settling option (which I think is the strongest option with the available info) I was thinking 2E should be tested. Especially if the warrior reveals any more seafood. (I was thinking of moving the warrior 1SE).

Advantages even without move seafood (compared to 1W)
1) opens the opportunity for more scouting with a workboat
2) has the oasis for a little bit more commerce in the earlier going
3) coastal capital might be more flexible
4) might work better with our starting techs (fishing and agriculture)

disadvantages (compared to 1W)
1) no fresh water
2) significantly fewer forests and less long term hammer potential (although similar food production even without a 2nd seafood resource--assuming a lighthouse)

I think it is at least worth some detailed comparisons with a test game especially after the warrior reveals possibly more seafood.
(Many of the advantages could be achieved just a little bit later with a 2nd city)


P.S. Thanks Kaitzilla for reposting the image it made this post much easier :)
 
I would like to add a:

1b.) Where should our warrior move?

Oh yeah, I meant to mention that too :)
  • Warrior N to the hill reveals four land tiles (I think) and if they had a resource or two, settling NE-E or N or NW might be reasonable.
  • Warrior NE reveals the hill and 3-5 water tiles (mostly ocean, depending on the coastline) and could make settling NE-E / 2E reasonable (and the former has fresh water)
  • Warrior SE reveals one land tile, two water tiles in common with with warrior NE but misses the third
  • Warrior in any other direction has no advantages
All these will need to find at least one resource to look better than settling 1W.

I like warrior N, because it reveals the most land tiles and makes reasonable some of the the strongest possible alternative scenarios (settling N or maybe NW when the tile 3N of the settler has something tasty)

3.) What do we expect to be the best victory condition?

I think this will play a role in our decision as to where we settle.

Totally - if we or the Wizard are (semi-)isolated we might have different settling criteria from a Pangaea Conquest rush. That said, I think settling 1W does cater to a variety of scenarios - it can axe rush, it can be a decent bureaucratic capital after getting up an academy, it can share tiles with a couple of nearby cities if we're crowded in, it could chop a wonder or two, it could REX hard. Some other sites might make a better Bureaucratic Oxford city, but I think it is normally superior to generate an edge earlier rather than later. An extra city plus a Bureaucratic Oxford that's only 80% as good is around about a break-even proposition, and doesn't require that successful strategy include a maximally-effective Bureaucratic Oxford...

I would like you all to take an unspoken "Nice Job!" when I don't say it with my comments. I know we will all give considerable amount of thought in all of our plays and actions. Also know that when I disagree with something that you say, that I really mean, "I agree with what you are saying, but..."

I agree with what you are saying :p I welcome constructive criticism, too. If you think I'm wrong, please say so, and please say why. That way, at least one of us will learn something!

Settling Site:

Settling 1W seems optimal from the original image of the start. However, we may still want to discuss alternatives.

Start File:

In my opinion, someone should upload the start file when its available so everyone can look at it.

Everyone can download and view all the saved games from the GOTM website. Unless it's down, I don't think we should be uploading saves here. Links are fine, of course.

Thanks for the references for some of the tricks.

I'm guessing that "fog gazing" means the same thing as "radar trick". I'm also assuming that fog in this context means unrevealed areas.

I think "fog-gazing" in the GOTM community refers to looking one tile into the fog, after perhaps zooming in and considering alternative camera angles. The radar trick is a more long-range affair.

I was on the fence about the flying camera with all the controversy, but I'm fine with using it as the decision by the admin is to allow it. I have a little experience with it and I can see the potential value. Although its value will be a bit less in this game I expect than it had in the last SGOTM.

In addition to the 1W settling option (which I think is the strongest option with the available info) I was thinking 2E should be tested. Especially if the warrior reveals any more seafood. (I was thinking of moving the warrior 1SE).

It should be straightforward to WorldBuilder some test cases. If we find a coastal fish, how does it compare with settle-1W? If we find a grassland gems or river corn 3N of settler, how does that play? Same for plains gold on the hill NE of the oasis. What would be a good basis for comparison? Time taken to build two settlers, some warriors and three workers?

Advantages even without move seafood (compared to 1W)
1) opens the opportunity for more scouting with a workboat
2) has the oasis for a little bit more commerce in the earlier going
3) coastal capital might be more flexible
4) might work better with our starting techs (fishing and agriculture)

disadvantages (compared to 1W)
1) no fresh water
2) significantly fewer forests and less long term hammer potential (although similar food production even without a 2nd seafood resource--assuming a lighthouse)

I think it is at least worth some detailed comparisons with a test game especially after the warrior reveals possibly more seafood.
(Many of the advantages could be achieved just a little bit later with a 2nd city)

Worth considering. I think the commerce edge of the oasis is not a big concern. For the ~20 turns before the sheep tile might get improved, it's only a difference of one commerce per turn, and thereafter the sheep tile is 2:food: better (pasture gives +2:food:1:commerce:). Also, the lake tiles are available if we need a tiny :commerce: boost to get a tech a turn earlier, or such.

Note that settling 1W at size 4 working sheep-cows-corn-spice with two pastures and a farm is 16:food:6:hammers:4:commerce:/turn. Settling 2E working oasis-corn-crab-coast fish (hypothetically) with farm and planted workboats is 19:food:1:hammers:8:commerce: before the lighthouse - and we'd have to build a worker and two workboats to even get into that position. I think settling 2E does get going faster. Each leaves open the possibility of settling the other site second, of course.
 
Hi folks,

I hope we will work hard to attain the summum and gold laurel award.
I already am rejoicing to see such enthusiasm of the team, already posting some theories. Whereas I still have done nothing...:nono:

Thus, here is my first contribution to the nascent but sturdy (I hope) team, Kakumeika.

Some pre-test starting files are provided below and people are free to scaffold theories based on easier experimental method.

I tried to be as exact as possible and some tiles under the fog are already revealed, but
if any contradiction are seen, please make me aware of it. If one goes under worldbuilder
mode, of course, nothing are to be observed further except I place some tundra tiles to represent some undiscovered tiles around. I did put 8 AI's, but erased them and let alive Wang Kon on some island for no particular reason except I fear to receive "win"
message...which doesn't occur after all I think.

Why three saves...well...because from the moment I saw the starting location a few weeks ago, settling one tile west was a no-brainer to me for the sheeps, one saved forest, forested PH hill and the possibility to reveal either horses, copper or iron, which makes a two hammers tiles under the capitol without losing a turn for settler movement! I was salivating to 3 turns warriors, but reality screams for better implemented strat and a traditional one without going haywire with risky tactics.

Anyways, in a nutshell, the three saves are the same, yes! ;) I just switch horses for copper and the third save copper for iron. No real use, but every aspect must be considered. A horse case is completely different from a copper one and drastically different from an iron case, for the one additional hammer under the city for example.

I know playing traditionally is best for any XOTM, a succession one or not, war must be prioritized though for catapulting ourselves to the top, even it's only an additional worker without much negative kickback. Where am I going at? Simply, I will slowly provide warlike situations according settling position, what kind of strat. resource we find out and how to optimize a good early...if ever the flying camera helps us to confirm we aren't isolated. Moreover, the initial warrior must aware us if there is any intelligent life around and not too far. A good rush must be somewhat done before turn 50 to avoid the foe non creative capitol attaining third cultural ring (40 %defense).

Some of posts seem stupidly useless like cases where one SIP, but doing them helps to grasp experimentally the dilemma, SIP or one tile west for sheeps.

Anyways, I will do my best with my limited knowledge...don't forget I am still a fledgling player of 4 months old. :)

BELOW ARE TEST FILES! BE CAREFUL WHEN TRUE FILES WILL APPEAR!
Sorry for such blunt writing, but one must be cautious of possible mistakes later.
 
Case #1

SIP, Worker first and AH as first technology. The chariot rush.

Personally, settling in place isn't optimal and we only gain that oasis in the north, thus a supplementary source
of commerce. Nonetheless, every cases must be done for realistic comparison.

Since a SGOTM playthrough remains conventional and risks must be minimized in the early game, building
worker first is better and at turn 15, we are ready to improve. Unfortunately, for the five early turns, we are
stuck to work a non-riverside tile of three :hammers: (for workers). This means Mysticism, Mining, Hunting and Wheel will bank 10 :science:
(I guess 9 from city and another flask from natural one flask per turn when the science slider is put at
zero (if someone can explain why it is not 9 :science: instead of 10 :science:, I will be gracious to the helper!)),
whereas Sailing and AH will receive 12 :science: per turn.

At turn 5, the oasis is worked and two supplementary :science: are added.

Turn 13 is a critical moment if horse are found next to the city.

I decided to improve horses first for earlier chariots and that tile is roughly better than corn, even
though food is generally stronger first.

But Wheel technology takes time and 13 :hammers: must be invested somewhere in-between and a barrack seems
a good choice for a more efficient chariot rush.

At turn 20, Wheel is completed and the worker can either work corn or cows. I decided plain cows first.
We are training (switching to) a chariot because we need to scout the surroundings in order to justify such military
decisions.

At turn 23, the cows are ready and we work it. The worker is going to improve corn next.
At turn 26, we reach pop 2 and work both the horses and the plain cows.
At turn 27, our first chariot is ready to scout and we switch back to the barrack. Mining tech is done.
BW is next.
At turn 29, we switch horses for un-wet corn. This means pop 3 at turn 31.
At tunn 31, pop 3 and horses, corn and plain cows are worked. Meanwhile, the worker is mining the PH.
At turn 32, we got a one :food: surplus (26 :food: reduced to 25 :food:), meaning we can reach pop 4
in fives turns thanks to 5 :food: per turn.
At turn 33, Barrack finished!
At turn 34, the unforested PH is mined. Our worker begins a road network to facilitate the chariot movements.
At turn 37, chariot #2 is completed.
At turn 39, chariot #3 is completed.
At turn 40, our worker must go on a forest in preparation of chopping.
At turn 41, BW technology is completed and we revolt into slavery.
At turn 42, we whip (one pop whip) the remaining of the ongoing chariot.
At turn 43, chariot #4 is completed and the next chariots are completed in one turn!
At turn 44, chariot #5 is completed and the chopping eases our growing army.
At turn 45, chariot #6 and last one for a safe rush is done. Now, we must reach the AI before turn 51,
otherwise, the capital will reach third cultural ring for non-creative civs.

Results:

6 chariots, pop 4, Writing (it is an example...) in 9 turns, and a settler in 7 turn.

Later, I will work on other cases. The attachment is the result at turn 45 of that simulation. :scan:

[To be continued...]
 
Look at the time here! :run: :sleep: I really wish what I brought will be for some use. :sad:

Oh yeah, please I beg criticisms (whatsoever the sort.) to raise myself up!
 
One good thing to do with test games is to post a sign with the worldbuilder (which is black, and can't be erased by a normal player) that this is the "Test Game". When we get the real save, I suggest the first thing we do is put similar "Real Game" signs up. The best locations for these are on a tile that we won't use much that is one south of a tile we'd not put a city on - often water, deserts or mountains.
 
If we settle 1W and judge to spam settlers, then we can get two workers, four warriors and two settlers built before T47 with five forest chops, two pastures, a farm and two riverside mines and a size 5 capital. No revolt or whip yet. The first settler would have planted itself a few turns ago. Tech AH, Mining, BW, Wheel, Myst, and a bit of Pottery. Note that some delicacy with timing of city growths, tile improvements, and availability of chopping is required. See attached PDF for details.
 

Attachments

  • settle 1W settler spam T47.CivBeyondSwordSave
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  • settle 1W and settler spam.pdf
    57.5 KB · Views: 137
During the first turn (only), we cannot upload the save before the turn ends. That's a missing feature from the server I found in SGOTM13. So we will not be able to designate the first person to play, move the warrior, and upload for further discussion. Probably, the first PPP should include a planned pause and an upload of a screenshot - certainly if there are new resources discovered. I'm not aware of any reason we couldn't upload to this thread so people can do whatever fog-gazing they want to do.
 
A lot of you have already stated what I will say below. I fell asleep last night while writing it, but will post it all anyway.

Should we use the flying camera and radar tricks?

I think we should see if we can gather information from these techniques. I can't too reliably trust my interpretations of the flying camera. I haven't tried the radar trick. Others will use these tricks. We should try if we can get good information from them.

First warrior move

1. Move NE. Reveals ocean tiles looking for seafood.
2. Move N. Reveals the tile north of oasis looking for commerce. (Fur only likely possibility)
3. Move SE.

Where to settle

1. 1W. With the information we have now, 1W clearly seems the best. It looks to give the most hammers (4 hammer tiles)
2. 2E If a warrior move reveals multilpe food resources, this may be a prime starting spot. Based on the lay of the land, if we settle this area for second and third cities, they will easily pick up any seafood tiles revealed.
3. 1N If a warrrior move reveals a great resource north of the Oasis, this will still allow us to keep our hills and food tiles (while losing the cow). This would force us to settle north of the crabs to use them.

What type of victory

I don't think any victory type will be affected by early warring. I am guessing that the Wizard of Oz is the leader of a civilization, and thus will have to be "destroyed". It is unlikely that he will start near us. Therefore, we will have to declare war in the medieval or renaissance eras. This can really hurt diplomacy. I think a diplomatic victory may also be problematic due to the random personalities feature of this game. I think a cultural victory will be slow going. This leaves conquest and domination. I think this is not a decision to make now, but something to keep in mind. I think the biggest decision will come when we decide if we should start worker stealing.
 
Following extensive discussions in various threads, and a review by the GOTM Staff, I have been persuaded that two methods for gaining prior map knowledge are contrary to the spirit of the GOTM/SGOTM competitions. The use of these techniques will therefore be banned during this game.

- Players are NOT permitted to use the 'Flying Camera' to look for details under the fog.

- Players are NOT permitted to map invisible terrain using the Go To facility.

I have added these constraints to the rules section of the first post in the Maintenance thread.

I guess that answers that question.
 
I guess that answers that question.

Oh! Too bad. Anyways, I never used any of these tricks in any of my HoF games. So, it doesn't change a thing. ;)

And I wasn't able to make workable the "to go" trick...
 
At turn 21, I should keep building the warrior for four turns while growing to size 3, before switching to the second worker. This gets that warrior finished on T25 in synch with the growth to 3, so it can get scouting about 8 turns sooner, and doesn't slow down the second worker. It also makes slightly better use of the first chop a bit later.
 
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