Deity OCC Science Victory - G&K Strategy and Tips

Quite a lot if mentioned about timing, particularly timing of Research Agreements (RA), and Social Policies (SP).

1) Research Agreements: I currently sign RAs as soon as it is possible to do so, which is generally as soon as a Civ decides that they want to make/accept a Declaration of Friendship. After that, I'll sign a new RA as soon as the previous one completes. Is this wrong? Should I delay an RA in order to time things better? How should I achieve this? What's the best way of tracking/timing your RAs?

Practice varies, but I don't find it terribly useful to sign RAs at low beaker counts. Because RA pay-offs depend on average beakers over the 30 turns of the RA, having a lot of low-beaker turns in the equation is not helpful. I usually postpone my first RAs until I'm running 90-100+ beakers. Others will say that is too late (and some may say it's too early :lol:).

2) Social Policies: Is it correct that you have to balance the amount of Culture and Science you're generating so that you reach the Renaissance Era before you complete Tradition? What options are there for managing this, and what is the best way of correcting things if they get skewed?

There's no need to hit Renaissance before finishing Tradition. You want to finish Tradition (free aqueduct and 15% growth) before taking the Rationalism opener, so optimal path is to time your tech and culture to allow you to take the Rationalism opener a few turns after finishing Acoustics (the most common path to the renaissance -- except on water maps, where you will probably do Astronomy). Often the issue is accumulating culture more quickly than beakers--take care not to satisfy cultural CS quests too early or running such high levels of happiness that you trigger multiple Golden Ages before getting to Rationalism, after which point you want to boost your culture ASAP. All that being said, there can be real utility in getting policies in Patronage before you get into Rationalism.

3) Specialists: In general how/when should they be assigned? Should you always fill all science buildings as soon as they are built, and keep them filled throughout the game? Or, are there some instances where it's better to wait, or only fill only some of the available slots?

All science slots filled, all the time.
 
Quite a lot if mentioned about timing, particularly timing of Research Agreements (RA), and Social Policies (SP).

2) Social Policies: Is it correct that you have to balance the amount of Culture and Science you're generating so that you reach the Renaissance Era before you complete Tradition? What options are there for managing this, and what is the best way of correcting things if they get skewed?

3) Specialists: In general how/when should they be assigned? Should you always fill all science buildings as soon as they are built, and keep them filled throughout the game? Or, are there some instances where it's better to wait, or only fill only some of the available slots?

Assuming OCC:

2) I try to time the Rationalism Opener upon reaching Renaissance. That means you should finish Tradition by that time. In OCC many end up having one extra SP before getting to Ren era so not even finishing Tradition by then is unusual, imo. For me it means delaying monument in the build order, but that's only if I pop 2 culture ruins. If you can time the Oracle late you can get 2 in Rationalism quickly (unlikely for me but it can be done) or if you get it early you can finish Tradition faster for a taller city.

3) Yeah, if im playing OCC i rush buy every science building and instantly work the slot. On rare occasion if I'm 1 turn from a new citizen and working the slot means 2 turns, then i'll wait that turn and stock it with the new citizen. My city stays on food priority pretty much the whole game. Aqueducts ASAP help make up for the citizens in science buildings the whole game.

I'll let others address 1). RAs are more complicated for me.
 
Hey, I just joined these forums to say thank you for all the advice through this thread, it's been a huge help to me so far.

That said, I am apparently doing something wrong and I'm not sure what.

I'm doing OCC with Inca, currently on Prince setting since I'm still new to the game, huge pangea map. I've followed the first post almost to the letter, only taking a small deviation (and it wasn't really a deviation I suppose, I did need it to head towards plastics) to get gatling units since I ended up in a war. The only other deviation I can think of was building the Hanging Gardens since they were in my tech path anyway and food is good. .It's currently T249 and I'm just getting plastics, obviously nowhere near the T250 win I was hoping to achieve. The thing is, I'm not entirely sure why

My city grew incredibly fast, it's currently at 38 population and still getting another person every 5 turns or so. I grabbed every single science wonder up to this point, and have all of the proper policies filled out, the only one I do not have is the one that gives 2 free science upgrades and that's because I'm saving it until later, at least as best as I can. I'm sitting on 2500 gold getting +60 a turn, and have taken RA's as often as possible ever since I hit ~100 beakers, which I am now at 350 of. Every specialist slot is filled, every cruddy spot (like the 1 food/1 production ones) on my territory was replaced with a trading post for more science.

The thing is, I'm clearly winning by a mile, I'm in the Modern era and I'm not even sure if anybody else has hit Industrial yet, so the strategy is definitely paying off, it's just that somehow it doesn't seem to be working as quickly as it seems like it should. Am I doing something wrong?

I was tempted to play Babylon or Korea for science instead of Inca, but after getting used to Inca's amazing abilities I really would prefer sticking with them, the hills bonus makes my little turtling heart so happy.
 
So I just followed the guide on Immortal, and landed me a sweet T324 launch. Does Deity speed it up because you can steal techs? My starting location was incredible, but I only had some horses for strategic resources, which greatly set me back since I couldn't generate nearly as much money. CS alliances didn't really exist, and I couldn't build Factory/Hydro/Nuclear Plant until AI allies tech'd up and I could buy the resources I needed.

I also played a regular sized map which really limited my RE options... are these T229 wins being done on large or huge maps?

Could use some pointers to speed it up.
 
Hey, I just joined these forums to say thank you for all the advice through this thread, it's been a huge help to me so far.

That said, I am apparently doing something wrong and I'm not sure what.

I'm doing OCC with Inca, currently on Prince setting since I'm still new to the game, huge pangea map. I've followed the first post almost to the letter, only taking a small deviation (and it wasn't really a deviation I suppose, I did need it to head towards plastics) to get gatling units since I ended up in a war. The only other deviation I can think of was building the Hanging Gardens since they were in my tech path anyway and food is good. .It's currently T249 and I'm just getting plastics, obviously nowhere near the T250 win I was hoping to achieve. The thing is, I'm not entirely sure why

My city grew incredibly fast, it's currently at 38 population and still getting another person every 5 turns or so. I grabbed every single science wonder up to this point, and have all of the proper policies filled out, the only one I do not have is the one that gives 2 free science upgrades and that's because I'm saving it until later, at least as best as I can. I'm sitting on 2500 gold getting +60 a turn, and have taken RA's as often as possible ever since I hit ~100 beakers, which I am now at 350 of. Every specialist slot is filled, every cruddy spot (like the 1 food/1 production ones) on my territory was replaced with a trading post for more science.

The thing is, I'm clearly winning by a mile, I'm in the Modern era and I'm not even sure if anybody else has hit Industrial yet, so the strategy is definitely paying off, it's just that somehow it doesn't seem to be working as quickly as it seems like it should. Am I doing something wrong?

I was tempted to play Babylon or Korea for science instead of Inca, but after getting used to Inca's amazing abilities I really would prefer sticking with them, the hills bonus makes my little turtling heart so happy.

im not sure with this information. have you gotten and planted any Great Scientists? You should have 2-4 planted for academies if you have 4 specialist slots running. if you have a free GS from Porcelain Tower it would probably be your 3rd or 4th. Gardens, National Epic, and Pisa all add to speed of getting them. Did you found a religion or get one from someone else? With Rationalism opened you should be able to buy GS with faith, at least 2 and maybe a 3rd if you have a lot of fpt. You'll get two more from Hubble and 2 free techs from Rat finisher. You should have much more than 350 bpt at t249. OCC should be 700+ near the end.

Since you have so much gold you probably could have bought all the science buildings (including observatory) so you could instantly work the GS slots. You could also take two policies in Order to get 25% science bonus from a factory. You could save Oxford for late tech or use it early to get to a science building extra fast. doing it early can save 20+ turns on the end time, say, if you use it for Education and rush buy the Public School and instantly work it, or the same for Plastics and Labs.

The final push actually happens pretty quickly with all the GS/RA popping and free techs so it might seem pretty late but since this is one of your first tries at Prince it is understandable to not quite get it yet. From the time you finish Apollo it can be as quick as 20-30 turns later for the win, but that means REALLY well-timed RAs, GS popping for max value, and a huge production value on SS parts. Queuing up the most beneficial late stage tech path can be tricky too.
 
im not sure with this information. have you gotten and planted any Great Scientists? You should have 2-4 planted for academies if you have 4 specialist slots running. if you have a free GS from Porcelain Tower it would probably be your 3rd or 4th. Gardens, National Epic, and Pisa all add to speed of getting them. Did you found a religion or get one from someone else? With Rationalism opened you should be able to buy GS with faith, at least 2 and maybe a 3rd if you have a lot of fpt. You'll get two more from Hubble and 2 free techs from Rat finisher. You should have much more than 350 bpt at t249. OCC should be 700+ near the end.

Since you have so much gold you probably could have bought all the science buildings (including observatory) so you could instantly work the GS slots. You could also take two policies in Order to get 25% science bonus from a factory. You could save Oxford for late tech or use it early to get to a science building extra fast. doing it early can save 20+ turns on the end time, say, if you use it for Education and rush buy the Public School and instantly work it, or the same for Plastics and Labs.

The final push actually happens pretty quickly with all the GS/RA popping and free techs so it might seem pretty late but since this is one of your first tries at Prince it is understandable to not quite get it yet. From the time you finish Apollo it can be as quick as 20-30 turns later for the win, but that means REALLY well-timed RAs, GS popping for max value, and a huge production value on SS parts. Queuing up the most beneficial late stage tech path can be tricky too.

I did not plant any GS, that may have something to do with it, I have three of them just sitting around right now since I was waiting to use them. I did have a fourth but I popped him to get gatling units since I really needed the military boost at the time. I was not able to get Pisa, although I did get the Porcelain Tower. I did not found a religion or get converted yet, the only thing I have for that is the +10% growth from pantheon.

Sadly, that massive amount of gold has mostly accumulated in the last 40 or so turns from sales and an economy with almost nothing worth building, otherwise I would have used it for buying buildings. I also have had to spend some on keeping an up to date army since apparently people really don't like me for some reason, no matter how much I try to play nice, but that isn't a huge drain since my gold is almost worthless outside of RA right now.

I remember somebody saying tech was the easiest victory path (outside of maybe conquest), it does not seem so easy right now :)
 
science are easiest vics but not necessarily fastest turns-wise. (domination is fastest.) religion wasnt necessary but getting 2 GS from faith purchases helps. planting 2-4 GS early really has long lasting benefits. more than that is arguable but can also be strong. when you pop a GS, the value is based on an average of the previous 8 turns of bpt. so if you had planted them at +8 beakers, plus any empire/city-wide % bonuses and any policy bonuses they can mean 20+ beakers per academy. it speeds up the turns to the next early techs and improves the power of RAs and later GS popping. That alone would have you 20+ turns faster than where you are now and easily lined up for a pre-300 victory.

on Prince you will likely surpass opponents tech very quickly. when you are the overwhelming leader in tech all of the civs dislike you. if they want an RA they will demand more in return as well as being unlikely to ask for a DoF very early. also trades will be less than the 240g equivalents (not to mention the AI generally being broke now). they will on occasion team up to try to take down the leader but 6-8 units that are further in tech can fend off 20+ units no problem once you understand combat.

also, you can avoid all of the sailing techs and just use a spy to steal them up to Industrial era (but dont steal from RA partners--they can get angered by it and might DoW on you). and dont get too fixated on modern units. popping for gatlings wasnt necessary, but once you get used to combat tactics and strategy you'll understand why. combat really helps when you understand the minutiae like terrain bonuses, movement, promotions, special abilities, etc.

glad you're learning from this thread. try another game and plant the GSs and see how it works. And if you dont play a huge map (normal pangea instead) the AI will war with each other more since they have less terrain to settle on. it means they are kept busy with each other and not so powerful in general.
 
@sutasafaia:
You really can't expect to win quickly with Science on lower difficulties, since fast victories are highly dependent on RA's. Settle Scientists you get and keep teching up. Sub-300 is still possible though.
 
well, Sci Vics arent exactly dependent on RAs. factories with the order bonus and a high culture rate for more policies will make up for going with a few or no RAs at higher diffs. under typical strategies you'll get 10-12 policies (2 trees at max), but by going heavy patronage and culture you'll get big growth, culture and happiness to get many more policies. you can finish tradition, take two in patronage, get the rationalism opener, then go two into order, then finish off Rationalism. the money you wouldve spent on RAs will go to CSs allies instead. avoiding RAs or limiting it to maybe one wave was kind of common since they were abusive and broken when they were bugged.

edit: nevermind. after reading it a second time maybe it is on lower diffs. i was still thinking about emperor and higher tactics. but you'll still get the win, just not as fast as with the RAs. on prince the OP is still way ahead in techs, enough to still have no problem.
 
@sutasafaia:
You really can't expect to win quickly with Science on lower difficulties, since fast victories are highly dependent on RA's. Settle Scientists you get and keep teching up. Sub-300 is still possible though.
I agree. The bonus from an RA depends on both your science rate and the science rate of your research partner. On easier difficulty settings, your partner's science rate is much less than yours, so you get less of a bonus in terms of number of turns the RA advances you.

You need to plant those early scientists. Not only do you get the extra science beakers throughout, but their effect is multiplied by the number of RAs you have. I figure that each RA I have at a time increases the beaker effect of the academy by about 3 (it depends on multipliers, etc). So if I have 4 RA's going at once, then I'm getting an effective additional 12 beakers per turn from the academy. I plant scientists until a couple of turns after I build the research center.

IMO, it's never worth saving the great scientists to burn much later. The important thing is turns that the scientists save you, and that remains pretty constant (burning a scientist gives you 7-8 turns worth of science). If you're about to greatly increase the science per turn (eg, building a science building or getting a science policy), then save them until 8 turns after the increase before burning them is worthwhile, but other than that, it just costs you money (2-4 gold per turn mounts up).
 
I usually postpone my first RAs until I'm running 90-100+ beakers.
Isn't it pretty much the same time the universities are up? Which pretty much few turns at best after you hit Education? :)

Hey, I just joined these forums to say thank you for all the advice through this thread, it's been a huge help to me so far.
Welcome to CFC and Happy New Year to you and all! :)

I'm doing OCC with Inca, currently on Prince setting since I'm still new to the game, huge pangea map. I've followed the first post almost to the letter, only taking a small deviation (and it wasn't really a deviation I suppose, I did need it to head towards plastics) to get gatling units since I ended up in a war. The only other deviation I can think of was building the Hanging Gardens since they were in my tech path anyway and food is good. .It's currently T249 and I'm just getting plastics, obviously nowhere near the T250 win I was hoping to achieve. The thing is, I'm not entirely sure why
Hanging Gardens are fine. Temple of Artemis is also fine. Everything that boosts growth is valuable. Only science buildings get higher priority than food-based ones. Trading posts are not fine though. Farm everything you can.

So I just followed the guide on Immortal, and landed me a sweet T324 launch. Does Deity speed it up because you can steal techs?
Not really. You steal the same junk on both, from my experience. Higher AI's bpt does speed it up a little, though, and higher cash flow is nice as well. But everything comes down to starting location. I win faster on better map, doesn't matter whether it's immortal or deity. There are downsides to both.

My starting location was incredible, but I only had some horses for strategic resources, which greatly set me back since I couldn't generate nearly as much money. CS alliances didn't really exist, and I couldn't build Factory/Hydro/Nuclear Plant until AI allies tech'd up and I could buy the resources I needed.
If you couldn't generate enough money, it had not been that incredible. :) CS allies help a lot. Recently I end up allying more or less all CS out there regardless VC and difficulty. In OCC every beaker counts, and you generally get more SP's than with multiple cities. So Scholasticism is a huge help. In the game I described above, I peaked at 988 beakers with 10 or so allies. You naturally have more cash towards the end and in the meanwhile can try to do their quests.

I also played a regular sized map which really limited my RE options... are these T229 wins being done on large or huge maps?
My game was on standard. Jeespoks attached initial save file earlier, you may try it out. Amazing map.

Could use some pointers to speed it up.
OCC is all about location. You can't get a crazy early finish on every map.
For better results you must:
- river.
- mountain (deity OCC without observatory seems totally unrealistic to me, tbh).
- religion (not necessarily yours) and high fpt.
- many CS allies.
- lots of culture to get Planned Economy and Scholasticism on top of Rationalism.
- neighbors that hate each other more than they hate you.
- obviously high food + high production (Petra + Desert Folklore combination is hard to beat).
- and more...

Some of these can be very random.

324 though sounds too late even for less than perfect start. On deity AI will lunch before that. And there is a high chance it'll happen on immortal too.
There are few checkpoints that are worth paying attention to.
What turn do you hit Education? What's your bpt with university?
What turn do you hit Scientific Theory? What's your bpt with public school?
What turn do you hit Plastics? What's your bpt with research lab?
What turn do you get each of Rationalism policies?
What turn do you get Planned Economy?
How many RA's you have per wave?
How many scientists do you have at the end?

I'll edit if I think of something else.

Since you have so much gold you probably could have bought all the science buildings (including observatory) so you could instantly work the GS slots.
Or ally CS. Not sure rush buying is justified in a city that can hard build the building in 2 turns. It's more justified on higher difficulties, IMO, where AI has some cash of its own and even the slightest delay can cause you to miss an important wonder. On lower levels, however, you have to bankroll AI and there is no danger to lose wonders. So the cash may be saved for something else. Don't know, just guessing.

You could save Oxford for late tech or use it early to get to a science building extra fast. doing it early can save 20+ turns on the end time, say, if you use it for Education and rush buy the Public School and instantly work it, or the same for Plastics and Labs.
For Astronomy to unlock Rationalism asap.


You really can't expect to win quickly with Science on lower difficulties, since fast victories are highly dependent on RA's. Settle Scientists you get and keep teching up. Sub-300 is still possible though.
Assuming OCC, of course. Without the restriction, you can win very early.
 
@The Pilgrim: i usually dont do Oxford for astronomy. i used to in vanilla but ive changed it around and saved it for later. (for almost a year i didnt know it was a national wonder and never saved it fearing it would get sniped from me, haha.) after finishing Education i'll go straight into Acoustics (7-12 turns) and time it with entry to Ren era then do all the catchup stuff to Scientific Theory. if i dont have RAs timed for SciTheory then ill use it for that but i usually save it for Plastics for Modern era entry/rush bought Labs.
 
Woot, I finally did it! T288 launch with Babylon. Petra is my best friend here. I couldn't get many RAs which really slowed me down in the late game, and it didn't help when first Ottoman (who was miserably far behind and easy to beat down) and later Boudicca (who was dangerous but still manageable) all decided to DoW me mid game. I managed to get Pisa in for the first time too, makes a difference of about 2-3 more GS. The thing that really helped was when the first ruin I found had Pottery in, got to a very early Writing and opened Education on turn 85. I must admit I got worried when Haile rolled his army near me, but he was too busy fighting the Ottomans and Celts for me (or more likely for himself).

I could certainly use a start like this one again, but for now I can console myself with the fact I beat both Deity and sub-300 OCC SV for the first time. I can certainly push this much lower too I feel, but I'll need a hell of a lot more RAs signed ASAP. Cash was rarely an issue, but I probably made a few poor building purchases.
 
Woot, I finally did it! T288 launch with Babylon. Petra is my best friend here. I couldn't get many RAs which really slowed me down in the late game, and it didn't help when first Ottoman (who was miserably far behind and easy to beat down) and later Boudicca (who was dangerous but still manageable) all decided to DoW me mid game. I managed to get Pisa in for the first time too, makes a difference of about 2-3 more GS. The thing that really helped was when the first ruin I found had Pottery in, got to a very early Writing and opened Education on turn 85. I must admit I got worried when Haile rolled his army near me, but he was too busy fighting the Ottomans and Celts for me (or more likely for himself).

I could certainly use a start like this one again, but for now I can console myself with the fact I beat both Deity and sub-300 OCC SV for the first time. I can certainly push this much lower too I feel, but I'll need a hell of a lot more RAs signed ASAP. Cash was rarely an issue, but I probably made a few poor building purchases.

care to elaborate on build and tech order and how you managed your citizens and money.
 
Sure thing. I actually settled on a Gold, and there was a second Gold, 3 Sugar and later a Dye to sell, so I was rolling in the cash from the AI. It was mostly desert tiles in all directions, so I was getting massive amounts out of Petra. I actually put a lot of cash into buying buildings as I wanted to get both National Epic and Garden before the Uni.

Build order went something like: Scout, Granary, Library, National College, Petra, National Epic, Market, Garden with Legalism picking up the Monument (I did get an early Culture ruin). Faith ruin also gave me 10% growth. I focused on growth up until the Petra, got that out ASAP, then went back to growth as much as I could, filling up specialists in Culture and Science to get through Rationalism and techs. I bought the Water Mill, Stone Works, 4 Bowmen, Walls, Uni and Observatory, and still had loads of cash to start RAs (although I waited until the AIs opened Renaissance, I'd got there so early when opening Education that none of them were).

About this time Suleiman started settling cities in my face. I prepared for the inevitable DoW, and as insurance I paid Boudicca to go to war with him. They exchanged one of the 2 nearby cities between each other, with Ottoman eventually winning them both back.

Next target for me was Pisa, I opened Printing Press ASAP and had it built around T125. Saved the Engineer and popped Porcelain Tower as soon as I could. All the while I'd been settling Academies and building up my beakers. Once Public Schools were up, I beelined through to Plastics, and then through to Satellites to get the Hubble done. RAs had slowed down by this point - there were only 5 active civs out of 7 after the Danes and Theodora both lost their caps. Austria was also swallowing up CS as per usual, and Boudicca had started settling in my face too.

I decided to set my spies to tech stealing since I wasn't getting much joy out of my neighbours anyway and felt I had enough military to face any DoW. As for social policies, I got through 4 Rationalism, and certainly had enough time to open Order for the Factory bonus before finishing Rationalism and grabbing some of the more expensive techs. I had to manually plow through a lot of the late techs as RAs had mostly dried up, with only Haile and Darius being able to get any with. Austria DoFed much too late to get anywhere with.

Hubble went up fairly slowly, as I'd continued to stay on growth focus as I was waiting on the techs anyway. I had no Aluminium so I allied with Kuala Lumpur who had 8 units, but the AI started fighting over that and eventually Ottoman took it over so I had to send my prebuilt spaceship parts into the city early and buy a Recycling Plant to even have some Aluminium.

Final beaker cap was 720 (with Research Focus), and I probably burned the remaining GS too soon to slam through the techs, as I used them ASAP when my beakers were still around 550ish. After Satellites I went for Mobile Tactics, then tech stole Advanced Ballistics from the Celts, before finally slamming through the lower path to Nanotech and using Rationalism finisher to get Particle Physics. Finally opened that last tech on turn 284, with 4 turns to finish the final part. I'd beaten everyone to Apollo so I was confident of my victory, but getting the later techs certainly warranted more careful GS management and more RAs, but the AI wasn't so forthcoming with the latter.

I got to 31 pop in the end, certainly could be more if I'd not stopped to Production focus on certain buildings (Petra, Pisa) or fill in a bunch of specialists for the culture mid game, and later just for the extra beakers. I wasn't worried when Haile built the UN on T260 either, Austria had swallowed up too many CS to make a Diplo win a problem.
 
Silly question maybe, but do you get more science with OCC picking a good spot for a city or without OCC and just spreading like a virus? My roommate is playing America, basically taking over everything in his path, putting cities every 6 hexes or so, and has 1000+ science per turn at T250 on prince setting. That completely destroys my 400 science per turn at 250 doing OCC with Inca. Is science better when you spread out or is it just my inexperience messing me up?

Also, how do you work specialists normally? Filling all your specialist slots gives you a lot of science but it really hurts your population since it stops you from farming all your farm tiles.

Lastly, does the starting bias for Inca really put them ahead of Babylon and/or Korea for science? I do love the Incan bonuses with hills and farms, a lot, but sometimes I wonder.
 
Silly question maybe, but do you get more science with OCC picking a good spot for a city or without OCC and just spreading like a virus? My roommate is playing America, basically taking over everything in his path, putting cities every 6 hexes or so, and has 1000+ science per turn at T250 on prince setting. That completely destroys my 400 science per turn at 250 doing OCC with Inca. Is science better when you spread out or is it just my inexperience messing me up?
Generally speaking, more cities = more science. Especially with Rationalism, endgame puppeting will give a whole lot of beakers if the University in that city was not ransacked by your invasion. Puppets will be tradeposted anyway, so there will be mucho bpt from that, especially puppets on jungles. And Messenger of the Gods Pantheon.

Also, how do you work specialists normally? Filling all your specialist slots gives you a lot of science but it really hurts your population since it stops you from farming all your farm tiles.
At 6 pop, I usually work both slots in the University immediately, which leaves me four citizens for riverside farms. Much better if there's wheat nearby.

Lastly, does the starting bias for Inca really put them ahead of Babylon and/or Korea for science? I do love the Incan bonuses with hills and farms, a lot, but sometimes I wonder.
They are NOT a science civ per se, it's just that the start bias makes you more easily attached to a mountain, which is critical for the Observatory. If you plan on playing Science OCC, the mountain is a whole lot more favorable than the river (since you can get population using a whole lot of other means; there are a whole lot of food tiles in the game).
 
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