Corporation Strategy

For Corporations You want a Free Market, Wall Streeted Beaurocapital HQ and if You have vassals or colonies You want Your corps there (not in Your land) with the exception of Sid Sushi or Cereal Mills which gives You food for bonus specialists in cities. If vassal adopts non free market , force free market on him or use spies to influence his civics. If it is neccessary or You would like corps to spread in Your lands - if You need a resource or more hammers and the maintenance costs run too high - consider pillaging resources/building something else on a resource like a farm or windmill or cancel deals with other civs for resources that corp consumes because if more resources are consumed , maintenance is higher, maintenance is also higher if You spread Your corp to more cities. Civ Jewels and especially Sid Sushi are actually very cool for culture games but if You're up to domination grab/demand vassal resources and spread corporations that gives said resource in their land but make sure they have resources that Your corporation consumes , else it will not work

AdamCrock said:

For Corporations You want a Free Market, Wall Streeted Beaurocapital HQ and if You have vassals or colonies You want Your corps there (not in Your land) with the exception of Sid Sushi or Cereal Mills which gives You food for bonus specialists in cities. If vassal adopts non free market , force free market on him or use spies to influence his civics. If it is neccessary or You would like corps to spread in Your lands - if You need a resource or more hammers and the maintenance costs run too high - consider pillaging resources/building something else on a resource like a farm or windmill or cancel deals with other civs for resources that corp consumes because if more resources are consumed , maintenance is higher, maintenance is also higher if You spread Your corp to more cities. Civ Jewels and especially Sid Sushi are actually very cool for culture games but if You're up to domination grab/demand vassal resources and spread corporations that gives said resource in their land but make sure they have resources that Your corporation consumes , else it will not work

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I dont think bereu capitol affects crops or does it? does corp hq get or ? Also why would you only want the food corps in your own land? Why not mining inc if it gives 5+hammers?

bhavv said:

What do you do if you're running state property & caste, and you get hit with emancipation unhappiness and the world considers you a villain for defying global emancipation and environmentalism? 60-80% culture slider sucks

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Win domination before those happen?

Build the UN yourself so you don't bring those votes up? Or swallow the 1 per workshop and switch to emancipation. The big power of SP is from the +1 on each workshop and watermill plus the 10% boost to production. Cast +1 per workshop is icing on the cake.

For corps you want to be in free market to reduce maintenance costs, so you're still going to get unhappiness for defying global environmentalism.

AdamCrock said:

For Corporations You want a Free Market, Wall Streeted Beaurocapital HQ

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Actually, you want Wall Street in a shrined holy city of a well-spread religion. If you're running 70-80% science at break-even, most of your Wall Street bonus will be going to waste on your BureauroCap (if you're even still in Bureaucracy at that point in the game.) Plus you might collect more money from selling obsolete techs and burst your to 100% at times. Putting WS in a holy, shrined city will ensure that it's always multiplying . Then put your corps HQs in that city, as WS will also always multiplying their income as well.

and if You have vassals or colonies You want Your corps there (not in Your land) with the exception of Sid Sushi or Cereal Mills which gives You food for bonus specialists in cities.

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You want Mining, Inc. to go with Sid's or Mills as well to boost production in your cities.

If vassal adopts non free market , force free market on him or use spies to influence his civics.

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Well, it's only SP that you really want to keep your vassals out of. The other non-free market ones just make the corp more expensive for your vassal. And if you're spreading your corps to your vassals, you don't care about their expenses.

If it is neccessary or You would like corps to spread in Your lands - if You need a resource or more hammers and the maintenance costs run too high - consider pillaging resources/building something else on a resource like a farm or windmill or cancel deals with other civs for resources that corp consumes because if more resources are consumed , maintenance is higher, maintenance is also higher if You spread Your corp to more cities.

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I've never found Corp maintenance to be so crippling that I'd want to forgo the other benefits of having corp resources. Might have to lower the slider 10-20%, but that's with a well-spread corp with lots of resources. (HQ in WS city.)

civtilidy said:

I dont think bereu capitol affects crops or does it? does corp hq get or ? Also why would you only want the food corps in your own land? Why not mining inc if it gives 5+hammers?

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Corps HQ get , so BureauroCap does nothing for it (see my previous post.)

Agree with your second point.

Lennier said:

Corps HQ get , so BureauroCap does nothing for it (see my previous post.)

Agree with your second point.

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Thought so as it would be overpowered. My hq has produced many 1000

Yeah well Bureaucracy doesn't affect corp HQ that is true and WallStreet (not corp HQ) only works on not but sliders affect how much of is turned into gold - it's only logical that more commerce in capital with bureau makes more gold and You want HQ in capital because of minimum maintenance and You want Wallstreet there too (unless of course You want another national wonder there - I usually go with wallstreet/oxford or walstreet/national epic) I would go with rep/bureau/caste/free market setup for corporations. I've found that min inc gives You those hammers but it is also usually very expensive in my games so I prefer food corps - imho bonus food is altogether better because it allows more flexibility so You choose what bonus You get from it via the specialists You assign. (if You get 6 food You can have 3 bonus engineers and GP buildup as well - not to mention + from representation ) I didn't thougth much about shrine holy city because I don't emphasize on religions play - I always shoot at later games because that is my thing and I like free religion That is a really neat idea though but if it happens that holy city is not in Your capital You might as well rebuild Your palace there (or build versailles there or forbidden palace) because the maintenance costs would be minimal so You can reap the benefits of shrine base gold, minimal maintenance wallstreet + corp HQ .

Most of the time you capture a shrine. And you get the from the shrine no matter what civics or religion you're running (except possibly when you're in anarchy.) The only thing that affects the base from a shrine is the number of cities with the shrine's religion. That gets multiplied by whatever multipliers are in the city.

By the time Wall Street is available, you're probably running you're slider in the 80% range to break even; at that level, you want Wall Street boosting , not 20% of .

Location of corporation HQ and city with corporation do not effect corporate maintenance. See Corporate Maintenance Explained; the seven factors that affect corporate maintenance costs are base rate, map size, number of resources consumed, population (of city), difficulty, economic civic, and inflation (for 3.13 and later, just cancels inflation rate adjustment on expenses). So placing the HQ in your capitol will not reduce maintenance.

(One correction to my earlier post: You don't want civs you spread your corps to in Mercantilism either, as that cancels foreign corps.)

Yes, definitely corp HQ and Wall Street in a shrined holy city. At that point of the game you probably have one captured. Wall Street in capital for bureau bonus is a waste. You should be able to run your slider at 100% most of the time in the late game. Especially if you have mining and build wealth in all your cities that don't have anything better to do.

And as Lennier said, distance to palace has no effect on corp maintenance, nor does it have any effect on how much gold you get from shrines or the output of Wall Street. Maintenance cost is completely unrelated to what buildings you have (except of course the buildings that specifically reduce maintenance).

However, a particularly powerful mining inc in a bureau capital might be a bit tasty, but even then it is more like an "oh the opportunity happened to come along" thing then something to aim for.

TheMulattoMaker said:

He mentioned a GE because he assumed Mining. I have to try to set aside a GE in pretty much every game, because I almost always found either Mining or CreCon. (Only way to get hammers from corps )

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Heh. I always set aside 1 GA, 1 GE, and 1 GM to found CivJewel, Mining, and Cereal/Sid's (in that order).

Note: I'm using K-mod; it shifts around the Tech requirement for all Corps. CivJewel on discovering Corp, CreaCon on discovering Steel, Mining on discovering Railroad, Cereal on discovering Medicine, Sid's on discovering Refrigeration. Plus, for strange reasons, the past several games I seem to always get much more land food (rice + wheat + corn) than seafood. Since I always build CivJewel, I already have enough culture generator to not found Sid's.

IMO, for domination wins, neither the +1 nor the +10% are the best part of SP. They are a great bonus and can be a great help if later cities are set up for such (grassland workshops, plains watermills). But, in general, the best part of SP, to me, is the negation of distance-based city maintenance. Generally, I'll stay in Free Market until either my conquering ways have given me too many distant cities or until I'm ready for a backstab that will kill my trade route income. Just switching to SP can give me a 20% boost on the slider without flinching and that switch is a huge difference in science.

How could I have forgotten that power of SP? It's especially strong on maps with multiple land masses as SP also eliminates colonial maintenance (which is a multiple of distance maintenance).

FWIW, I think the concept of colonial maintenance is the worst idea introduced in BtS. It basically means that you're going to run SP as soon as available on multiple land mass maps and pretty much takes the fun out of Terra maps.

Oh thanks for clearing things out for me Well "learn something new and useful every day" they say and they are right You're of course right Lenny There is only one tiny flaw about shrine cities - they are not always available to You at the point in game when You're ready to establish Your Wall Street national wonder What if all of the shrines are on a continet ("in a galaxy" xD) far far away ? What should I do ? Wait with the wallstreet until I get my hands on a shrine via conquest ? (not likely when playing Pangea I know) but it's still a possibility

AdamCrock said:

There is only one tiny flaw about shrine cities - they are not always available to You at the point in game when You're ready to establish Your Wall Street national wonder What if all of the shrines are on a continet ("in a galaxy" xD) far far away ? What should I do ? Wait with the wallstreet until I get my hands on a shrine via conquest ? (not likely when playing Pangea I know) but it's still a possibility

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In most games Wall Street is not worth building at all. You are mostly way better off putting those hammers directly into wealth, or something else more useful, instead of building six banks and WS.

Regarding the colonial maintenance, I totally agree. I like the idea that colonies are more expensive to maintain, but the amount could have been reduced IMHO. You shouldn't be able to run around grabbing colonies all willy-nilly, but it shouldn't be crippling so early on in mid to high level games.

@AdamCrock: In your situation, I probably wouldn't bother with WS unless I was in desperate need for . It's not always a priority. But maybe this is different on higher levels? (as a disclaimer, I'm a Monarch player)

EDIT: Looks like AdamCrock got there first . I can see building Banks in my merchant specialist cities and WS if I get an early religion shrine early enough in the game. Most games I don't bother though.

Yes I see Your points but aren't banks an amazing improvements ? Like the "universities of cash" ? xD I do not always emphasize on building them asap but You know - when there's nothing more important left in queue and my army is large enough and everything's cool and "it's all quiet on the eastern front" - Im like: "lets have a bank to boost economy" And if I have got enough of them and the possiblility to build wallstreet than why not ? I admit I plan often to put it in the capital because often it's the citiy that generates greatest income in most cases with my games. If capital isn't a coastal city I usually plan ahead to put forbidden palace in a good coastal city and national epic goes to capital and WS to a good coastal "trade city", which is probably better choice because You can have more GP's early in capital and it makes a huge difference with all the bulbing an beelining and if You're philosophical Let's not forget that we're also talking corporations and without wallstreet corporation looses it's +% benefit for putting an HQ in a wall street city And about bureaucracy my logic is simply -> trade routes + tiles = total +50% from bureaucracy and that is cut by the % value of the slider = "base gold" and than You add corp HQ and specialists to the result (and maybe even shrine gold) and than multiply by the WS% and that is the gold total minus the maintenance -> Is that right or wrong ??? Another factor for choosing WS location might be the city food output because more food = more merchants You can put to generate pure base right ?

The point is that if you play your cards right, then in the late game your slider will be very high and most of your cities generate very little gold. You can get gold from from building wealth, selling resources, selling techs, begging/demanding, capturing cities and GM trade missions. You might also run some merchant specialists, but if you are in rep they also generate an equal amount of beakers. When your cities produce way more science than gold, science multipliers are way more efficient than gold multipliers. Adding 50% to very little is a very little gain. As has been mentioned, Wall Street is mainly useful in a city that produces large amounts of gold independent of slider position = shrined holy city or corp HQ, or both.

If you build a bank in a city that generates 10 base /turn with your average slider position, then it takes 40 turns until it has payed back the hammer cost compared to building wealth. 40 turns is a very long time! Getting the money upfront by building wealth allows you to research faster immediately and reach your target tech sooner. Building gold multiplier buildings so that hopefully one day far in the future you can keep your slider a bit higher is mostly not worth it compared to building wealth and teching faster immediately.

You also should ask yourself what is and why do you need it? You need it to pay upkeep and maintenance, and occasionally to upgrade some units. Other than that it is of no use to you. It won't win you the game. What wins the game is . Therefore your aim is to maximize your output. To achieve that, you aim to convert the majority of your base to science, because there are better science multiplier buildings than gold multipliers. Your bureau cap should have an academy and that alone makes converting to a lot more efficient than converting it to . And there are, as mentioned, other ways of getting gold to pay upkeep. The more you can get gold from other sources than adjusting your slider, the better.

All good points Well I guess You're right but sometimes I use the gold to hurry production under Universal Suffrage. If I play spiritual for example I like staying in representation for research in times of peace but in times of war I like to switch to US and I can hurry a lot of units with very fast that way. I can also use US to build a lot of buildings very fast with the sufficient amount of gold and I sometimes play around with the slider like building a big pile than hurrying buildings or upgrading units and than switchin back to 80-100% on the slider. I like to be flexible that way

elitetroops said:

In most games Wall Street is not worth building at all. You are mostly way better off putting those hammers directly into wealth, or something else more useful, instead of building six banks and WS.

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I agree with this, unless you happen to be running a FIN civ.

The problem with banks are that they come really late. On pangaea maps it makes more sense to build wealth and try to win or lose. Banks are too late of an investment, and the AI economies explode at the end of the game, so you need to make your move before that anyways.

On non-pangaea maps you can usually freeze the slider pretty close to 100%. On big maps you can get literally hundreds of GPT from all the AIs for resource trades, and then trade off techs for their extra gobs of gold. If you're basically done with the tech tree and are running US it would make sense to build banks, but that stage of the game is so late, that even if banks outperform building wealth relatively quickly, it's still not quick enough.