A "good"-AI like in Chess or Starcraft II is in my opinion not the ideal thing.
The AI in SC2 is really bad, actually, particularly the Zerg AI. Completely predictable, barely adaptive, inflexible. For a good AI, see GalCiv2 and AI War.
A "good"-AI like in Chess or Starcraft II is in my opinion not the ideal thing.
i dont think mocking the OP because he played monarch is nice . It depends how you played . I played monarch because i didnt like to follow the same cookie cutter path through the game each time . Monarch while RP'ing a bit and not using cheese tactics makes it alot harder , anyone can win on a higher difficulty whipping all the time , wiping out your nearest civ with a cheesy ealry attack you know will succeed 100% . Its not just the difficulty but how you play as well .
i got no opinions yet as i wont jump to conclusions until i have played a few games . It does initially seemed watered down too much but maybe it will get more complex as we get more games under our belts.
@Valkrionn
re: Using espionage hurts you
You defend with total espionage generated to date (regardless how much you spend).
You offend by using points generated toward specific target (a limited supply).
FYI
I had Oda come up to me, tell me that my civ was so pathetic that even barbarians disparage it, and leave. Needless to say, that was far more telling than any number of +/-s would have been.
"Anyone" can't win all the time (first of all because some maps on immortal+ are unwinnable) on immortal+ even with whip/draft/rushing.
Playing on monarch you don't actually have to know anything about the deeper mechanics of the game to win. You don't need to know about warmonger respect, the initial attitude modifier, who will declare at pleased, if you can afford the third city or not, globe + draft rifles etc etc. In order to win on immortal+ you need to know these things and knowing this makes cIV on immortal+ a completely different game than cIV monarch.
So imo if you can beat the game on monarch you don't even qualify to be an ok civ player, but merely an average civ player.
that's not strategy that's knowing the game.
The AI plays to win much like a multiplayer opponent. They will attack when you're weak regardless of how you've helped them out and they'll backstab you all the same. And thats a good thing. Its no longer about manipulating the system and choosing that pointless religon over this one. The AI knows just as well as you do that the game has win conditions. The diplomacy is now about getting ahead and thinking strategically. Want to avoid war? Try making long term trades with the other Civ that are mutually beneficial.
*snip*
Finally, because policy points accumulate entirely separately to techs, it's another axis to think about when considering development. With Civ IV's civics, you unlocked new civics at the same time as certain techs, so it was always predictable when (in the sense of the tech advancement) you could pick certain techs up. And you were usually teching as fast as possible, so this didn't really add any extra depth. With Social Policies, the only connection is the era restrictions; beyond that, you'll get policies at the rate that you devote yourself to culture. Which has important ramifications:
Basically, civics were akin to pseudo-static bonuses that you got when discovering techs. In fact you could probably write out a civic plan before playing the game (when I get to Code Of Laws, I'll switch to Caste System) and it wouldn't vary much based on the way the game turned out.
- The opportunity cost of choosing between two SPs is much higher than civics. Make the "wrong" choice with a civic and you have to wait 5 turns to change it again; fail to choose an SP that in retrospect you should have gone for, and you have to wait a lot longer to get another chance to pick it up. Your decisions matter a lot more.
- All civilizations were able to choose between civics in all five categories, and since the techs were generally useful anyway, everyone could choose between all civics at the end of the game. With SPs, being divorced from tech means that you'll get much more pronounced differences in different civs' abilities.
- The rate at which you acquire SPs is dependent on how much you divert your attention and resources to culture. Hence with the difficult decisions above, you have the power to lessen the wait between SPs if you are prepared to make sacrifices elsewhere; you have the power to acquire more SPs than you opponent and give your civ permanent advantages if you're prepared to make the sacrifices elsewhere.
With SPs you get choices that are individually less powerful, but cumulatively much more so, and something that gives culture a legitimate axis for advancement that's completely separate to beakers. More choices, more depth, more rewards, more sacrifices, more complexity.
So yes.
Because of how the AI will now attack you if it find itself in better military standing (and with that being the only consideration, nothing else), there is only one way to avoid war in Civ5; to have enough army that will stave off any AI's ambition.
And that also mean you can beat the AI in a war anyway, so this makes the game very one dimensional as you only have to worry about your military.
Because of how the AI will now attack you if it find itself in better military standing (and with that being the only consideration, nothing else), there is only one way to avoid war in Civ5; to have enough army that will stave off any AI's ambition.
And that also mean you can beat the AI in a war anyway, so this makes the game very one dimensional as you only have to worry about your military.
This didn't turn Civ5 into more "strategic" game. It simply puts all AI nations into constant state of aggression against you, where you have no reason to befriend anyone. The only diplomatic option you now have is to wage war eventually. That is far less strategic than Civ4 where you had the option of doing something more than just waging war.
Edit: to make sure I appear less simple minded, I do think that combat in Civ5 is way superior to Civ4. Economy is different but it looks like it can be depthful in its own way. But I still stand by my comments that diplomacy is now nonexistent, and that is a straight reduction in strategy.
I think it's rather multi-dimensional that now military force is as important as other strength like science and culture. Just like how you couldn't forego science even if you persued cultural victory now you need decent military power even for a diplomatic reason. IMO this gives the game more tension and excitement even if you're playing a builder strategy, forcing you to think multi-dimensionally.
Or to make a civilization dependant upon you.
"There is a pre-set plan for Social Policies too. If, at the beginning of the game, you are leaning towards a domination victory, you'll pick a militaristic leader and hit up the Order, Autocracy, etc. tracks. The problem is that, once you pick them, you are locked in. If you suddenly decide that you want to swerve and go for a space victory, you are SOL. There is no ability to adapt to the changing dynamics of the game. Perhaps that is more "realistic" "
There is nothing realistic about this.
All nations adapt to circumstances. Even Kings and dictators get deposed when they are massive failures. I fail to see what is strategic about getting locked into a policy for all time. All leaders change policies when needed unless they are idiots, fools or arrogant to an extreme degree.
Before I begin I want to start by saying I'm not talking about which is better, yes I happen to prefer Civ 4 at the moment but I still working on Civ 5 and it is growing on me.
With that said, however, I can't even fathom how people can think that Civ 5 is more complex. It boggles my mind. The only thing that is more complex is combat. With no more stacks and all units having two or more moves, there's a lot more to think about with each attack.
Other than that the only thing that makes it complex at the moment is the lack of knowledge. Right now we don't know how our actions effect our relations with the of leaders. To this point it doesn't even seem like it matters, you're going to get attacked regardless, but only time will tell.
In Civ 4, every action had consequences, yes we knew exactly what those consequences were but you still had to weight out each decision. For example:
For every civic choice you had to weigh out the lose of benefits vs the new benefits vs anarchy vs relations changes with the AI. With every SP choice all you have to do is decide which benefits you want.
For every tech choice you had to weigh out what building or unit you need vs which civic you need vs trade bait. Now all you have to think about is what building or unit you need.
For every Religious choice you had to weigh the benefits vs anarchy vs relations. Now... oh yea, no religion
Even the little things, IE Great Generals; Merge unit vs settle for XP vs settle for production not to mention what promotions to choose or where to settle. Now it's either golden age or static unit bonus.
The list goings on. Every where you turn there are less and less choices in Civ 5
Global happiness is not more complex than locale happiness. Once all of the numbers are broken done and we know exactly what effects what I think people will realize it's actually simpler than locale happiness. Managing one number with fixed variables(pop, cities vs buildings, resources, wonders, sp's) vs managing multiple numbers (each city) with individual variables (pop, religion, war, espionage, yearn for motherland vs buildings, resources, wonders, troops, civics, slider)
Strategic depth isn't actually about what has more numbers behind it, its what asks the player to be more versatile and intelligent.
The happiness in Civ IV did not have a significant impact on people's playstyle, therefore it didn't add very much depth to the game. Civics aren't permanent, I don't have to consider much beyond 30 turns ahead when I choose a civic because I can always switch back. Social Policies require longterm planning, and it forces you to consider way more factors. Religion really was a paperthin element, and it basically translated to "I can have +2 with this guy, or +2 with this guy, well, it doesn't really matter because I can switch any time."
Once again, more choices/ descisions do not always relate to as strategic/difficult/intelligent choices. The idea that because Civ IV had more numbers behind it makes it a more strategic, complex game just deosn't stand up to scrutiny.