Controversy : Kris Swordsman

Syailendra said:
i'm glad that indonesia is in, of course.
I'm not happy that ks is in, of course.
Modding is only a painkiller, not a cure. Will you glad if your country have a dragon rider UU? (you will mod it of course).
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Tsc, comparing Kris to a dragon raider is already too much, I don't understand why people are considering that this unit will get "fire-breathing" and "lightning invoker" promotions... when they don't.

They just are getting a kind of special, and natural, bonus, like all the other UUs does, there is nothing special or fantastic about it.

They wanted to represent the Kris and its influence over people, thus the unity. It works on the exact same way with Japan's ability to ignore wounds or England's ability to magically be able to seal with ships one hex further than anyone.
 
seancolorado said:
But I think this is fine. We are asked to use our imagination a little bit. The Kris I think should represent the weapon and history behind it. The army aspect is purely for the gameplay. I don't understand why so many people here refuse to separate the two when they willingly separate other aspects of civ
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yeah, if they puts kris on scouts i'd be very glad of it. Surely it will be a better implementation.
 
pedropavani said:
Tsc, comparing Kris to a dragon raider is already too much, I don't understand why people are considering that this unit will get "fire-breathing" and "lightning invoker" promotions... when they don't.

They just are getting a kind of special, and natural, bonus, like all the other UUs does, there is nothing special or fantastic about it.

They wanted to represent the Kris and its influence over people, thus the unity. It works on the exact same way with Japan's ability to ignore wounds or England's ability to magically be able to seal with ships one hex further than anyone.
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i will put a milder unit then. What if your country have a gemmed sceptre wielding army as UU then.
 
Red Pearl said:
All mercenaries of specific unit type cost the same amount of gold and they are always loyal.
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Your confusing neccesary gameplay breaks with non. If they made everything cost differanr amounts based on location, time, population, etc, the game would become bogged down and needlessly compicated, whereas if you swappe the kris with something more appropriate, gameplay is unneffected.
 
Red Pearl said:
what UU would be more appropriate?
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I like the current UU, but some ideas:


-Proa - unique vessel, fits along the UA for synergy
-Pinisi - Could even be made a work boat hybrid
-Pendekar - silat practitioner
-Bhayangkara, as mentioned many times by others

There are many more to choose from obviously but can't think of any more right now
 
I think Bhayangkara would be the best for the current portrayal of Indonesia, if they were to change it (but I don't think it's necessary even if they could)
 
Princeofnigeria said:
But earth COULD have looked like those random maps, and the leaders thing isn't a fair argeument, as the physical limitations of the game make having over 2000 unique leaders impossible. I'm not a no fun spoil sport, I don't mind stretching the bounds of what could have happened (spanish conquest of earth) and I am even fine with things that COULDN'T have happened (Pueblo multicontinental shipping empire). I just don't like going off the edge of insanity (Yeti's, Hobgoblins, a werewolf empire, and colonization of subspace). You guys are really villainizing me, and I find it rather rude to tell me to not play my favorite game in the world over one feature that hasn't been fully explored that I don't like. All I am saying is the reason I uppose the Kris being a unit, I'm not personally pissing on the history of Indonesia.
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You can not prove that something does not exist, you can only prove that something exists.

This is besides the point in that for the Kris, they are only getting strategies and tactics as stated above, I'm pretty sure ambition, heroism, and recruitment are not magical powers.

They will not take this as a cue that mythical things are ok and start booting in zeus lightning slingers or dragon riders in as:
1. They didn't have a great effect on the leaders of nations
2. They'd save them for a mythology flavored game
3. They aren't well known in the history sense

Kris fits as its spotlighting the Indonesian weapon in a fun way and is culturally significant to the Indonesians according to the posters above, the way it's implemented is just for gameplay reasons.

The 2 wonders fit because world leaders actually modeled their decisions on them, making them real whether they were before or not on a national scale, as they produced real repercussions.
 
Hruberen said:
Kris fits as its spotlighting the Indonesian weapon in a fun way and is culturally significant to the Indonesians according to the posters above, the way it's implemented is just for gameplay reasons.
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I think this sentence right here is the big takeaway.

The Kris Swordsman is not a literal army of Kris soldiers, but a representation of the Kris weapon which is huge in Indonesian culture.

Does anybody here think Siam's Naresuan's Elephant is a literal army of dozens of the same elephant used by Naresuan?

Indeed, they chose that UU because it represents a deep-rooted tale from the Siam empire. Just as the Kris weapon is deeply-rooted in Indonesian culture but could not ever be featured in a popular video game in any form other than UU. And it's not like the Kris was 100% ceremonial. It was used often in violent ways that it completely justifies the bigger meaning of having it in the game
 
seancolorado said:
I think this sentence right here is the big takeaway.

The Kris Swordsman is not a literal army of Kris soldiers, but a representation of the Kris weapon which is huge in Indonesian culture.

Does anybody here think Siam's Naresuan's Elephant is a literal army of dozens of the same elephant used by Naresuan?

Indeed, they chose that UU because it represents a deep-rooted tale from the Siam empire. Just as the Kris weapon is deeply-rooted in Indonesian culture but could not ever be featured in a popular video game in any form other than UU. And it's not like the Kris was 100% ceremonial. It was used often in violent ways that it completely justifies the bigger meaning of having it in the game
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But war elephants were highly prelevant in the area, and oft fought en masse. The kris on the other hand...
 
IMHO..
There are exist a wielding krises army..

The picture above is Balinese warrior.. It seems Firaxis use them as the model for Kris Swordsman..

And if you're Indonesian, you must know the tale of Calon Arang from Bali..
In that story, there is a scene where the entire army was forced to stab their body with their own kris..

That's mean.., every soldier at that time carries at least one kris on the battlefield...

And the mythical aspect of kris is well presented by Firaxis IMO..
The initial promotion is mystical flavored, but all of random promotions -for now- is not bounded by mystical aspect anymore..

CMIIW.. :D
 
These are two men posing for a photo. First, Two men an army does not make. Second By that logic, the Thai army would have to wear their bright poofy parade uniforms and weild abyssmally outdated m1 carbines into battle in the year 2013. It's for show, in actual combat the Kris would be a hinderance in most cases.
 
Princeofnigeria said:
But war elephants were highly prelevant in the area, and oft fought en masse. The kris on the other hand...
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Doesn't take away from the main point I was making above.

And the kris was highly prevalent. Every relevant man owned a kris. Particularly in the army. And they had huge armies. The criticism of this is that they were not necessarily the primary weapon of choice, but that shouldn't matter when its spiritual implications held by Indonesians meant it was a more valuable weapon than anything else they used. The Krises with the personal titles were thought to embody the essence of the rulers who owned them which was thought to bring success to battle

These are two men posing for a photo. First, Two men an army does not make. Second By that logic, the Thai army would have to wear their bright poofy parade uniforms and weild abyssmally outdated m1 carbines into battle in the year 2013. It's for show, in actual combat the Kris would be a hinderance in most cases.
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They were not always a hindrance. They were an effective 1-on-1 close combat dagger whose effectiveness waned with each passing year until it could only be designated for spiritual and ceremonial purposes

Honestly, I don't know what else to say other than what I've said. Kris is such a big part of Indonesia - including battles as both a center of spirituality going into it and as a secondary weapon. Then you have all the lore and stories of famous incidents involving the Kris. Just because it doesn't fit in the same exact puzzle piece criteria of every other UU in the game doesn't make it any less worth it
 
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