NiGHTS: General Discussion

Well, I guess most of this you'll find out with some playtesting of your own (major problems with the mod really don't show their face until about turn 60 so you really gotta do a full playtest). Putting science into military is not very good, as the extra happiness hits promotes more lower military. So beelining Civil Service is the only way to go after some little ancient era techs.

The reason early-mid game ICS doesn't let you compete on immortal/deity is that you're outexpanded by turn 80 (you could get it by 60 with some very early investment in scientists, but it slows your expansion too much). You can't ICS very fast without the farming food policy or civil service. I'm not sure the exact mechanic causes it, but even on immortal the enemy builds pretty rediculous hordes. You can take cities with a rush, but there isn't much point until civil service.

As far as difficulties, you want the range to be larger than king-immortal because it gives players less of a jump in difficulties. If king is too easy and emperor is too hard, people will just stop playing. I'd actually recommend my "extra difficulties" mod component, as having "halfway" difficulties would benefit this a lot. It's just an xml file or two so merging would be no problem.

Lastly, you don't want such a huge focus on food because it limits strategies. Expanding strategies is really the entire reason for eliminating ICS. If the only way to play well is to spam farms everywhere and always take food policy, it gets pretty tedious.

I agree with you that food, currently, is too powerful and can be exploited. The AI is also overpowered compared to you on higher levels, but this to me is a secondary issue compared to food.

Is your extra difficulties mod component on the civ hub through the game? I would take a look at it as the AI will need tweaking.

As far as food goes, I have a fix in mind that will alleviate it's power and boost science at the same time without having to resort to constantly building buildings - at the very least it will add variety to the game. I'll post my changes here when completed, (probably around friday/saturday) and would appreciate your opinion on the changes at that point.

Thanks for taking the time to playtest.
 
People have had issues with Science being completely null and void from population. The mod now meets people halfway.

Science in your Capital remains unchanged from Vanilla at 1/Population.

Science in all other Cities is now set at 0.25/Population.
 
I just found this mod on the hub (v20) and gave it a try, only to find it severely broken from the get go.

To start with, I was unable to build my first city. The empire started out unhappy, and the only way to build that first city was to delete the starting warrior.

Second, I can only assume there's a typo or something, because I then proceeded to build a warrior, only to have it produce 50, yes fifty, unhappiness!

So I deleted him too and went about trying to build an empire capable of supporting a single military unit only to have it hard-lock crash at around turn 70.

I like the look of the mod and the ideas seem like they could make a nice change of pace from vanilla civ, but it's massively broken. I can only assume you've made some typo mistakes in v20, as this seems like the sort of thing that you would notice when testing it yourself.

And for the record - the only other mods active at the time were interface mods, so I highly doubt they were at fault.

Hopefully v21 will work better :)
 
interesting but the unit happiness system is broken. units give -100 happiness from the start so you must delete your initial warrior to even build your cap.

Same problem. Trying to isolate the conflicting mod.
 
Same problem. Trying to isolate the conflicting mod.

Same problem even after all other mods disabled. Deleted my old version of Nights or I'd check to see if it was a new problem or not.
 
If others ARE able to play v20, I suspect the problem is from using an older version of Civ 5. I'll update my game and see if it corrects.
 
When i get home from work I'll start trying to figure this out. Currently it seems like the mod is affecting a group of people in a strange way while working perfectly fine for others in regards to unit happiness. If I/we cant figure out the cause ill release a seperate version of the mod that will fix the issue for those with extreme happiness problems but this will break the game for those whom the game is working properly for as it will scale their happiness down ten-fold. Hopefully it doesnt come to this but if it does I'll put a disclaimer in the title addressing the issue.

Has anyone tried verifying their civ 5 files through steam and seeing if this fixes their problems?
 
Updating the game does indeed solve the issues. Sorry to the author for the worry. Hope this helps others with the problem :)
 
Clearing out the cache has done the trick for me. D'oh, my bad. I should have thought to clear the cache out before mentioning the bug, but I forgot. I guess some old data from other mods was hanging around.
 
Version 1.21 is up on the MOD hub.

Some rather large changes are introduced.

1. Cities now provide bonus Production/Gold/Food based on it's Population size.
2. This bonus is given to the core city tile at various size increments (1/6/13/20/27 etc).
3. This bonus is CITY PLACEMENT SENSITIVE.
a. This is based on the underlaying tile a city is built on. Seeing as a Forest on Grasslands is destroyed on a City build, the bonus is based on the underlaying Grasslands tile.
b. The bonus is immediately granted on the basis that the tile you've built your city on has at least a +2 initial yield on it. So if you build on a tile that has a yield of 2 Food/1 Production - This tile will now provide 3 Food/2 Production/1 Gold as opposed to the normal 2/2/1 ratio.
c. If no tile has a yield higher than 2, the initial yield will be 2/2/1 and you will receive your first bonuses from Population size 6 onwards.
d. If a tile has an initial yield of 3, this will be granted an immediate bonus of +1 followed by the recurring 6/13/20 etc.

This new system means that city placement is ever more important as cities can be guided towards which direction you want to take them. Build on a 2 Food/1 Production tile = Immediate 3 Food/2 Production/1 Gold for a fast growing city.

The added yields at population sizes (1)6/13/20/27/34 mean that there is incentive to grow your cities.

 
Serious issue: I can't found my starting city because it says that my empire is very unhappy. Help? I tried deleting the waarior, I could found my starting city, but seeing as I couldn't build further...
 
Serious issue: I can't found my starting city because it says that my empire is very unhappy. Help? I tried deleting the waarior, I could found my starting city, but seeing as I couldn't build further...

You need to verify your civ game files on steam/delete your game cache/have the game updated to the latest build.

This solves the happiness issue.
 
Noticed a bit of a bug/issue (have yet to try to reproduce, will attempt tomorrow).

There seems to be a rather huge slingshot-thing going on between classic and renaissance. I noticed Askia went straight through classic and not 10 turns later he was in renaissance. After building an apothecary I too slingshot through classical era to renaissance in about 12 turns (each tech took one to two turns). It pretty much made swordsmen, archers and elephant archers (I was India) obsolete before they even got a chance to come into play and also made cities explode with civil service way too early.
 
Noticed a bit of a bug/issue (have yet to try to reproduce, will attempt tomorrow).

There seems to be a rather huge slingshot-thing going on between classic and renaissance. I noticed Askia went straight through classic and not 10 turns later he was in renaissance. After building an apothecary I too slingshot through classical era to renaissance in about 12 turns (each tech took one to two turns). It pretty much made swordsmen, archers and elephant archers (I was India) obsolete before they even got a chance to come into play and also made cities explode with civil service way too early.

There is definitely the possibility that extreme sling-shotting like this can happen. Research balance may have to be slightly re-calibrated on the next version, especially now with bonus yields on city tiles.
 
Version 1.23 up on MOD hub.
Note - This will most likely be the last update, (barring massive bugs), before the new patch comes out as the next update deals heavily with diplomacy.

Changes:

1. Increased Tech Times to reduce sling-shotting.
2. Fixed problem where Large and Huge maps were getting City Unhappiness discounts. This mechanic doesn't apply in NiGHTS because, if anything, large and huge maps already get a bonus to unhappiness by being able to field an abundance of large cities which = Happiness.
 
What I like about this mod:
-A new tech tree that gives out bonuses at the cost of a certain thing
-Units that is an improvement over a basic current one
-New buildings
-Happiness reworked

Bad things I don't like:
-Production/process buildings will not hide, causing massive flooding of unbuildable units...
*solves this by making sure the new buildings will not display unless it's close to resource or hide it until I acquire the right resource...

Things that I wish to see in later versions:
-More improvements, improvements upgrade when worked on in a number of turns (Civ 4 style), Different roads, and new terrain such as lava rivers and volcanoes.
-Earth-like movement, watch as each and every turn slowly turn continents into either Pangaea or into smaller islands, all depending on user's set speed of the feature.
-Random Events
 
This is one of the better mods I've played. The happiness is very interesting, as are the resource buildings and significantly changed policies.

The only major issues I had/have are:

  • Research got ridiculous. On deity, half way through the game I was researching everything at 1 turn each, after having created research agreements with 2 other civs. The research agreements multiplying needs to be looked at, at least on deity (8000 rp/turn is ... uh ... fun?). Getting new Future Tech every turn after the mid 1600's got to be quite tiring.
  • I do not like the single unit styles, with the exception of the navy (which is just increased size). A way to disable - an option in the UI maybe - would be a good idea; This won't stop me from play it though.
I miss some of the UI mods as well (extra plot info most importantly), as it wouldn't work correctly with them (not really your problem though... we need a generic mod manager that can combine mods easier... hmmm...).

Overall, though, I commend you on creating something unique and completely new, at least to me, and I definitely look forward to any updates. In spite of the research issue, the game I played was very fun, and that's what counts.
:goodjob:
 
Glad you liked the mod Philomelus - its a departure from the norm and takes some getting use to but once you figure out the mechanics its rewarding. As far as the research pact issue - this has been fixed in the latest version now available on the mod hub. I'll also be releasing a version with normal unit sizes in the near future.

Thanks again for playing and posting:)
 
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