G-Minor XXVII

Denniz

Denniz

Where's my breakfast?
Hall of Fame Staff
Retired Moderator
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Nov 28, 2003
Messages
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While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!​

Settings:

  • Victory Condition: Diplomacy (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
  • Difficulty: Chieftain
  • Map Size: Standard
  • Map Type: Any **
  • Speed: Standard
  • Leader: Any **
  • Opponents: Any
  • Version: SV8 (1.0.1.511)
  • Date: 16th April to 1st May 2012
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker

** Remember, only those accepted by HOF
 
Oh boy......... any leader + any map type? Hehehe Im thinking Siam, Greece or Egypt for the win.

Edit: Decided to go Egypt/Pangaea for my first game aiming for a super ICS empire and I get Skilldorado right out of the gate (Turn 6), 312 Gold? Sounds perfect for my first worker.
 
The interesting part of this is that many new setup will be created for HoF.
 
Peets said:
The interesting part of this is that many new setup will be created for HoF.
Click to expand...
yes, but on the other hand, gauntlets are thought to be a competition and map type as well as leader choice influence the outcome significantly. So the question is: Are the results still comparable in a meaningful way? I doubt that.
 
of course the results are comparable.
if someone chooses tiny islands or england, they're not going to win, but we can still compare vs them.

siam is the obvious choice.
 
vexing said:
of course the results are comparable.
siam is the obvious choice.
Click to expand...
I agree, but then you can change any to Siam right away. (Might not be Greece interesting too?) :) The better players would prob beat me in 9 of 10 tries anyway, but I still think, removing
"any" would yield better results.
 
Think of this as an exercise in decision making. Siam and Greece are obvious contenders and so is Egypt for shaving time off of NC/UN and Im sure someone could find a way to make other leaders work, just not as well. The goal this time around is not so much 'fastest win with everything picked for you' but 'fastest win according to your own play style'.
 
Peets said:
The interesting part of this is that many new setup will be created for HoF.
Click to expand...
:D

Lord_Bubu said:
yes, but on the other hand, gauntlets are thought to be a competition and map type as well as leader choice influence the outcome significantly. So the question is: Are the results still comparable in a meaningful way? I doubt that.
Click to expand...
Comparability doesn't matter that much for gauntlets, just winning. Everyone has the same opportunity to pick the best civ and map. The only question is which is best. ;)
 
Spoiler :
*SKRen facepalms with fury of a thousand misclicks*
It wasn't a winner and it crashed but despite going though the whole game, I stupidly clicked Return to menu instead of 'One more turn'... And just to note, ICS Egypt is way scarier than ICS Gandhi could ever be 20ish cities at 7+ :c5citizen: and still had over 60 :c5happy: Burial Tombs are sooo overpowered or it could be that I was playing on Chieftain :p. Also has anyone noticed that Meritocracy+Forbidden Palace+Aristocracy is essentially a -25% to unhappy across you total population? That's a 33% increase in population support :D

All right, Ill kick this off with a T209 Finish. Settings were Oval(High Sea Level iirc, And despite picking 5Billion years, I landed in the super hilly zone which worked out in my favor at the end.) and Leader was Ramkhamhaeng.

I gotta say I took a lot of pointers from The_Pilgrims Sub 200 Science Deity game. I expanded fast to four cities. I started nestled around a mountain cluster but had several choice spots around to place cities and got my second city out on T21 and my 4th out on T40. From there I took all but BW of the Ancient techs and primed Theology, Civil Service and Compass. From there I was able to set up a full wave of RAs starting on T75 and the final one a bit delayed at T82.

The second wave was less glorious. At first Gandhi and Hiawatha were guarded towards me for being a possible threat, so with Hiawatha being the warmonger and Gandhi the peaceful one, I signed Hiawatha first and Gandhi last (Mostly cause he was broke). While waiting for the RAs to mature however I found a way to fix Gandhi's attitude. See I had built a trireme and scouted clockwise only to spy a barb camp with a settler. Well there was only one person it could belong to so I quickly freed him and 2 turns later Gandhi was grateful. Gandhi was everyone friend as well so I befriended him too. So now Hiawatha is my friend, Gandhi is my friend as are Washington, Wu Zeitan and Genghis Khan. Elizabeth WAS my friend until she decided she wanted to build one of the wonders I built a century ago and denounces me. Germany has always been on guard but suddenly hes on my case too. And thats where it stayed till the end of the game. So my second wave of RAs ended up being only 5 total and spread out over T113-T130.

My 3rd wave consisted of 3 RAs but really that was all I needed, actually two is all I needed. Made the two that mattered on T158 & T159

I ended up allying a Maritime CS pretty early and nabbed a Cultural and another Maritime mid game. Those helped a ton.

Finally I have come away from this with some big pieces of advice:
  • Build the National Monument, in your Capital fairly early. Also be sure to take the Freedom opener after you get Rationalism. It can wait if you get Patronage after.
  • Make sure your first 7 Great People are Scientists. Assuming you did like me and went for a 4 city start, you should get 4 in you capital and 1 from each of the small ones. IMMEDIATELY after you pop the 4th GS from your Capital, switch over to GE production(Unless you grabbed 2 GEs from HS/Liberty. I went GE/GS so I needed the GE.) Either way the timing is pretty close but doable either way. I suppose double GE is a safer bet though in which case keep on building a 5th GS. You will need and get it in time.
  • If you hard Tech Refrigeration, Combustion and Flight(Preferably in that order for the best medians) you can bulb the rest.

And that's it. If I had one thing to regret it was not being aggressive enough in loaning out my GPT to get the last 2 waves of RAs done faster. I know I could have hit sub 200. I definitely would have if Germany and England weren't being such prudes. I'm also bummed I missed the last city-state.

Spoiler :

17/18 is not bad :D

Spoiler :

Final shot of my Empire


Edit: Well ****, I used an invalid map type... Well I guess its an excuse to get a sub200 win :D
 
There is no obvious choice here, France is probably best. Arabia, Persia, Siam and Egypt may be good too. Anyway, it's possible to play good with all civs, map is more important.
 
there are a few good choices.
siam just seems the most straightforward given the natural boosts from city states and wats via legalism. unfortunately my play time is limited these weeks so i may not get in many attempts.
 
Hey guys, long-time lurker first-time submitter here: Siam, Lakes, Turn 190. Kept re-starting until I got an awesome map (the hard way since there's no random seed) expanded to 4 cities with 12 luxuries very quickly, then tried to play in a very similar way to vexing and khrax.

I've probably looked at a dozen different games from each of you, and vexing's articles on research agreements and the in-depth Gmajor 5 (Emperor, Epic, Arabia, culture) game really helped too. If I only I had kept up, I would've realized about the wat/legalism trick :0 Hopefully y'all won't crush me too badly, and I can start competing soon :p

One thing I'm always confused about in the midgame (between education and scientific method, say) is when I should be buying RAs and when I should be getting city states(I always go for maritime first). Any tips?
 
Good game, Voltaire. I usually start with one cultural city-state as early as possible, then maritime if I can afford it. You should reach three RA waves. I have tried four waves in some games, but I find that a fourth very early wave is just not worth it, it is better to buy city states in the early game. As you say, timing for RAs is very important and not so easy to handle. After playing a lot Civ V, I have got a "feeling" for when to start the waves. The feeling gets better with more experience. I try to start early with the RAs, but not so early that I don't reach astronomy as median. Second wave should have at least scientific theory as median, and third wave at least biology. This is a bit different on other speeds.

I don't think the wat/legalism trick is that good. You must build temples which cost turns, you must choose legalism instead of another policy, and you don't always get legalism when you want it, sometimes you must wait a little.
If you don't expand so fast it is very good of course, but if you choose 4 or 5 cities NC start and expand rapidly, the cities will build universities quite fast anyway.

The +50% city state bonus is nice, but as I see it, 2 culture per city per turn is a more significant boost, especially in the early game.
 
Khrax said:
I don't think the wat/legalism trick is that good. You must build temples which cost turns, you must choose legalism instead of another policy, and you don't always get legalism when you want it, sometimes you must wait a little.
If you don't expand so fast it is very good of course, but if you choose 4 or 5 cities NC start and expand rapidly, the cities will build universities quite fast anyway.
Click to expand...

Agree with this. I will make a go with France first. Pangea.
 
Thanks a ton for the advice, Khrax, but to clarify: the median of your first wave of RAs should be astronomy? If so I've been getting mine waaaay too early--mine are always currency or compass.

Khrax said:
I don't think the wat/legalism trick is that good. You must build temples which cost turns, you must choose legalism instead of another policy, and you don't always get legalism when you want it, sometimes you must wait a little.
If you don't expand so fast it is very good of course, but if you choose 4 or 5 cities NC start and expand rapidly, the cities will build universities quite fast anyway.
Click to expand...

I think the trick is pretty useful; in terms of hammers the temples cost 60 less than the wats but have to be finished by education, so I'd call that a wash. In terms of timing I bet you could line up legalism with education with the extra culture from the temples and possibly their artists and choosing between buffed maritime or buffed culture city-states. In terms of social policies, I always start with tradition anyway, so the bonus from the temples (and the faster wats) makes up for one social policy I think.

Where you come out particularly ahead is in the science and gpps from the faster wats--7 turns in my capital, but an average of 14 or so everywhere else means (for my empire) a bonus of 650 beakers, possibly even more if you get to education faster than turn 82 and/or have more population and less production than I did. 12 pop/32 prod in cap, 8/14, 6/12, 6/8 elsewhere.

S.K. Ren, I was so tempted to go for Monty as well because Lakes is my favorite map--all that fresh water means a ton of population!
 
I played Egypt, badly. I spent a lot of time REXing and not enough building wonders. I miss-timed a few free bulbs and didn't get my specialists going soon enough. Also, being my first Diplo Victory attempt in forever, I skipped the first vote, delaying my victory until 1958.
What I did right: using Great Plains to weaksauce England and bribing Mongolia to pick fights with the top dog, America. I made LOTS of money fast, and used my vast wealth to ally every CS there was, which meant I didn't have to field my own units. I used a war chariot for fog busting and barb hunting. I have mixed feelings about this unit - when the terrain favors it, it's very good. Not so much otherwise. Better than what it replaces though.
 
To be exact, ideally the median should be between compass and education. (Compass is a little bit cheaper.) If you have got iron working, masonry, currency, civil service, theology and optics, you have four available techs and the median is maximized.
 
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