PH13: The Book and the Hammer

I don't think infiltrating is a good idea. With all the discounts we could steal way more than this. Settle?

Also the GS could be settled but GA sounds good as well.

GG should definitely be settled for peaceful (non-theo) lvl 2 units
 
We can time our DOM win by withholding the capitulation / capitulate several AIs (whose cities are still theirs :p) at the same time.

How dare you? That is profondely dishonest, low-level, and very close of cheating....

I like it. :lol:

Well, with the wars that we have on hands , we don't need to DOW anyone to get a really decent empire.... So why not?
and just what I htought! :D

Using the 2 GSs was, i think, weed, too, but otherwise, good turns.

I think infiltration might be good for now. I don't think we're going to be doing much else stealing in the game, so I'm not sure that we should settle him anywhere. I still think merging GSs for now might be the way to go, esp as we're going to be moving to all Engineers in the future and might have a need for beakers. I like Guilds and Banking for stealing fodder.

let's keep heading for grenadiers and see what's what. We should try to go on the offensive at some point if we're still at war with everyone.


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pholkhero
Quotey >> just played
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LKendter
Mystyfly
 
pholkhero said:
I think infiltration might be good for now. I don't think we're going to be doing much else stealing in the game, so I'm not sure that we should settle him anywhere.
If we settle the GSpy we can change targets later on when someone gets a tech we really need. If we infiltrate we can only steal from one leader. For me clearly settling > infiltration.
As a bonus we also get some beakers that way.

I still think merging GSs for now might be the way to go, esp as we're going to be moving to all Engineers in the future and might have a need for beakers. I like Guilds and Banking for stealing fodder.
I agree with settling. We'll definitely need rep when we hit industrial age. Or we do it The Shaka Way - we get all techs from peace deals :D
More seriously: Our research will be pretty crippled so we might want to shoot for the internet. We just must make sure we keep at least 2 AIs alive so we can leech our way to AC.
If we'll be teching all alone for 200 years it'll take a hell lot of time and also be very boring.
 
T0 1340AD - I switch to Military Science; I'm not quite sure why our GS is aimlessly wandering around in a field. A reminder to the other players to ensure you know what to do with Great People, and if you aren't, to consult the other players.

The GS and GS are both settled in Berlin and the GG in Cologne.

AC has Gunpowder, Sury doesn't. I trade it to him for Guilds and cash.

IBT - Gandhi founds Islam in Calcutta

T1 1350AD - I kill a HA of Louis'. Both Gandhi and Louis will now pay us for peace... but I decide we can decide on that later.

IBT - Louis circumnavigates

T4 1380AD - The vote for Religious Victory pops up and we abstain.

IBT - Tokugawa leads with just under 200 votes

IBT - Surya captures Rheims and completes the Spiral Minaret

T7 1410AD - AC has PP, Surya doesn't, so I trade it to him for Banking, Theology, Drama, his WM and cash

IBT - Tokugawa declares war on AC

T9 1430AD - Gandhi is sitting outside Essen with some troops; Military Science is in and I stop.

Why?

I am rather intrigued (and somewhat annoyed) by the scatterish gameplay.

I will admit that I am at fault because I have neglected to participate in much discussion in between turnsets, but there is no rush and no need to continue unless you have full confirmation on what to do.

Firstly, I inherited the game with 0 units in production. Yes, we have low research numbers, but we can't be defending our cities with axemen and warriors anymore. Once all those forges complete, PLEASE begin producing grens and trebs because our cities won't be able to hold against Knights. Stuttgart is EMPTY. A stray boat from Louis could spell trouble.

Secondly, this:



WHY ARE WE IN BARBARISM?

I propose we switch to Mercantilism (an extra scientist is always good) and any Legal Civic because frankly, we shouldn't be barbaric at this point in the game.

Thirdly, tech direction. We can either choose to tech Steel now or hold off and beeline to Assembly Line. If we need to, we can trade for Replaceable Parts with AC, but I'd hold off for now.

Fourthly, diplomacy. Gandhi, Louis and Elizabeth are now the three bottom in score. We need to decide whether we want to continue these (mostly phony) wars. After all, the war against Gandhi began my last turnset and is still going without any gains. A War of Attrition if I ever saw one.

Fifthly, we need to decide ahead of time what to do with our Great People. With all the scientists we are running, we are getting them by the flocks, and we can't just randomly burn two of them on Chemistry.

If we continue to just like let things slide, we're going to leave the game open for AC or Surya to win, which we cannot allow.

*ranting over*
 

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I propose we switch to Mercantilism (an extra scientist is always good) and any Legal Civic because frankly, we shouldn't be barbaric at this point in the game.
I agree 100% with Mercantilism. I am not sure about the legal civic without looking at the game.


Thirdly, tech direction. We can either choose to tech Steel now or hold off and beeline to Assembly Line.
* No-Cottage SE. Up until the Industrial Age, we can only run scientists. Afterwards, we can only run Engineers. Once Assembly Plants come online, we’ll be able to run almost 7 Engineers in our cities.
Does steel push us into the industrial age? I would prefer to keep in science mode as long as possible.

With all the scientists we are running, we are getting them by the flocks, and we can't just randomly burn two of them on Chemistry.
I general prefer to settle until very late game when a GA is more powerful. However, when I use them for research I want 100% of the value. The second scientist on chemistry couldn't have given us full value. I rarely use a scientist for research unless I will be left with some beakers to research in solo games.
 
Firstly, I inherited the game with 0 units in production. Yes, we have low research numbers, but we can't be defending our cities with axemen and warriors anymore. Once all those forges complete, PLEASE begin producing grens and trebs because our cities won't be able to hold against Knights. Stuttgart is EMPTY. A stray boat from Louis could spell trouble.
No idea :shrug: Qutoey is to blame :p But I also don't like those many infra builds.

Secondly, this:
Ugh, looks really ugly... I suggest Rep/Nat/CS/Merc/(theo/pac). Reason: I'd like to see some more GSs to build an academy or two and to settle a coulple more. GEs won't be that effective so we can use them for GAs (with those GPs we pop from being first to techs). Afther those GSs we want theo/FR I think.

Thirdly, tech direction. We can either choose to tech Steel now or hold off and beeline to Assembly Line. If we need to, we can trade for Replaceable Parts with AC, but I'd hold off for now.
I think we should avoid advancing to industrialism for some more time so we can get some more GSs. When we're at the edge (1-2 techs away) of advancing, we can dial research to 0% (well probabely now already) and keep the money to get cr-rifles.

Fourthly, diplomacy. Gandhi, Louis and Elizabeth are now the three bottom in score. We need to decide whether we want to continue these (mostly phony) wars. After all, the war against Gandhi began my last turnset and is still going without any gains. A War of Attrition if I ever saw one.
We don't need the war with lizzy but gandhi/louis should get beaten a bit I think - probabely only 1 city - just so they don't get funny ideas anymore.

Fifthly, we need to decide ahead of time what to do with our Great People. With all the scientists we are running, we are getting them by the flocks, and we can't just randomly burn two of them on Chemistry.
As mentionned above I say build 1-2 acas, settle the GSs and use the GEs for GAs whenever possible. We can also settle a couple of GEs and build research :crazyeye: However every settled GE also gives beakers due to rep.
 
With all the scientists we are running, we are getting them by the flocks, and we can't just randomly burn two of them on Chemistry.

If we're getting them by the droves I don't understand why we can't burn them for full techs. Most players burn 2 on Education, right? GS are less numerous then. If it gets us ahead (and I assume we can trade for Rep Parts with Chem) I see no problem with it.

I think we should make peace instead of continuing the wars, as they're completely useless and creating an offensive stack now is a waste of time.

Lee- I assume when pholk says we are to switch everything to Engineers he means as soon as we get our Asembly Plants built. So I would say just set a course for Assembly Line.

We will also have to decide our Ironworks city, which needs to have food as well as production to take advantage of the extra engineer slots.
 
Sorry for the delay... got it.

Have another game to post now, so I can't look at the save. But we look to be somewhat thin about the army. I think that the big question is if we want to contunue faking war.... We clearly have more to do now than warring, but considering that we will have a lot to do to get Domination.....

Do we have a plan?
 
I took a look at the game. I think we are in violation of the variant. Munich has an engineer and Frankfurt has a spy.
@ Pholkhero - can you confirm this is incorrect?
 
good turns kodii, and good discussion all. good on ya, Kodii for stirring the pot :goodjob:

first, to the engineer and spy ~ i'm assuming it's game-assigned, but we DO have to make sure and check all the cities during your sets to make sure no non-scientists are employed in the empire. It happened in every game we played; the danged governor is spy happy.

also, I wouldn't burn two GSs for Education, since as LK pointed out, wasting beakers is silly. I, too, was surprised that you burned the two of them for it. I'm not really sure it matters all that much how many GSs we're going to get either. Burning two GSs should really be a group decision. We don't really have another city just yet running scads of scientists, do we?? If not, I still think they should all go to Berlin since it's already pumping out so much science.

And, I do mean at the Ind age, so we'll only be running the one engineer from the forge in all cities (which means we SHOULD've built that Forge in Berlin all those years ago!). Thus, we'll also want AssPlants to be built ASSap in all cities for more engineers.

Civicwise, i agree with Mysty and think Theo is the way to go ~ get some units built for our future armies. I think we should take peace, if only to improve Essen. It's been laying in waste for all these turns. Then, we build up, and get ready for Round 2. Germany won't forget . . .

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pholkhero
Quotey
Kodii >> just played
R_rolo >> UP NOW
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Mystyfly
 
pholkhero said:
(which means we SHOULD've built that Forge in Berlin all those years ago!)
lol, yes, we really needed to build that forge this early when we produced 5 hammers per turn and not now that we need it at 50 hammers per turn :rolleyes:
 
First thing I done was to make peace as mr SG leader ordered ( IMHO we should had kept some wars , like the Gandhi one )
Spoiler :





No one wanted to give techs...

And I simply couldn't skip this one:
Spoiler :

;)

We got a GS... settled on capital
Spoiler :

AC got a GA in the same turn... so , some turns later ( 1 turn for Taj completion ):
Spoiler :

We don't have Natio monopoly so it was time to capitalize the wonder factor. BTW we OBed Gandhi:
Spoiler :

Always the same.....

There was a AP leader vote:
Spoiler :

I choosed Toku... the +2 on diplo would be much more useful on him than on AC. Later events proofed me that I betted in the right horse:
Spoiler :

Considering the tech gap between Toku and AC this is not a small feat ( Toku is teching Gunpowder, as you can see in the screenie, and AC has already RP )

And taj:
Spoiler :


I stopped 1 turn later, before ending Steel... I'm not so sure that we should jump to the enginner only phase so soon ( I would like to have some more techs in the belt ).

Some screens ( remember that we are in GA for more 7 turns ) :
Spoiler :






And a trade prop:
Spoiler :

If we want to stop Toku on his tracks.... i sense that he's becoming too powerful for confort ( if he hammers down AC, no one will be able to stop him ).

So, some issues:

- We need more workers ( 6 for 8 cities with lots of lumbermills and jungle cleaning to do..... ). I have 2 on queue.

- I've been making the Jewish buildings for the AP hammers..... feel free to cancel if you want

-Do we want to swap civics in this GA? Not so sure....

-Stuggard will hit hap cap in 3 turns ( best I could do without starving the city ) and will finish a forge in 6.

- What do we want to tech next ( regardless of finishing steel now or not )? Astro for Observatories, or we beeline our UB ( my RP trade was done with the propose of maintaining that door open )?

- Last , but certainly no least: do we want to enter in Enginner mode now? Or we wait for some more techs to open it?
 

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r_rolo1 said:
And I simply couldn't skip this one:
:lol: I think Toku is getting old. In ungy02 we got the same one in the last set as well :crazyeye:

Good call on more workers, we really need them.

I think we should go ahead and attack AC. But louis is first. My plan: Finish Louis with rifles, go on to AC with infantry :)bump: engineer mode, we can run 0% for some turns before we finish ass line to get cash to upgrade to infantry) and steamroll over ghandi and/or sury with panzers.
 
There was an AP leader vote:
I choosed Toku... the +2 on diplo would be much more useful on him than on AC. Later events proofed me that I betted in the right horse:
That was rather close to him winning with our support.
Toku wins a diplomatic victory... :crazyeye:


I stopped 1 turn later, before ending Steel... I'm not so sure that we should jump to the engineer only phase so soon ( I would like to have some more techs in the belt ).
I am in no rush for the Engineer phase. Our science rate is going to crash pretty hard at the point. I would prefer to get as many merged scientists, along with Oxford, into Berlin before that.


I've been making the Jewish buildings for the AP hammers..... feel free to cancel if you want
I tend to do the same thing. What I can't recall is if the monasteries lost the hammer bonus after SciMeth.


-Do we want to swap civics in this GA? Not so sure....
Without looking at the game, I can't say (at work now). However, we should review to possibly take advantage of the free civics swap.
 
That was rather close to him winning with our support.
Toku wins a diplomatic victory...
It was a calculated risk... but i wasn't expecting so much people voting on Toku..... What the hell is happening in this game, where Toku makes OBs and, pwns a roman and is loved by everyone? :lol:
I am in no rush for the Engineer phase. Our science rate is going to crash pretty hard at the point. I would prefer to get as many merged scientists, along with Oxford, into Berlin before that.
I tend to agree.... We can't get engineers with caste :( and either way scientists pwn engineers researchwise
I tend to do the same thing. What I can't recall is if the monasteries lost the hammer bonus after SciMeth.
Monasteries lose the AP bonus with SciMet :(
Without looking at the game, I can't say (at work now). However, we should review to possibly take advantage of the free civics swap.
I knew I had forgot something in my report :hammer2:
Spoiler :

Theo seems sensible if we want to start chunking units ASAP.
 
Do we want a fast or slow tech pace? Mercantilism will slow down the tech pace, and make one of our specialists free. However, until such time that we can hire several engineers we won't get much benefit in the industrial age.


We have got to get rid of barbarism. The question is are we more concerned with military (vassalage) or culture / economy (free speech). With needing to build assembly plants I don't want to give up OR.
 
We're getting roughly 50 coins from foreign trade routes IIRC ( 30 something from Toku, 17 from Sury and some pocket change from Gandhi and AC IIRC ). OTOH we would get at least 8 * ( 1 :hammers: 3 :science: ) from Merc ( citizen specialist in every city ). Things seem pretty balanced if you asked me.....

Vassalage would be extremely helpful for us ATM: we have lots of lumbermills to do and jungle to clean and we only have 6 workers.

About OR: I agree with you, but pholk mentioned some posts ago that he wanted to go Theo. Hence my question....
 
Vassalage would be extremely helpful for us ATM: we have lots of lumbermills to do and jungle to clean and we only have 6 workers.
You are thinking Serfdom...

Vassalage is military experience.
 
Aggressive Gandhi, Pleasant Tokugawa?

Pholk, is there something you haven't been telling us? :mischief:

I tend to agree that we should wait a bit before switching into Engineer mode, but we need to make some civic changes NOW, and considering the switches are free, we can probably afford to make a switch now, then switch again later when we have our own Industrial Revolution.
 
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