The Sinister Scheme of Dr. Fu Manchu

I'm not 100% sure I understand why we've stalled, but I think that FiveRings is waiting for feedback on city placements and The Oracle (esp. from woopdeedoo and lymond)?

• I continue to be satisfied with 1NW of eastern Horses. I agree that this city can work Cottages 1+2 while Manchu's Snarl takes a long shot at The Oracle with a switch to and .

• I am doubtful on settling over near that south western Gold but concede that it's not a 'really really' bad idea or anything, but it is likely to be cut off from the rest of our empire if we lose Open Borders with Churchill, and we might be taunting him a bit by placing the city so close to what I assume is the outskirts of England. As earlier proposed (and rejected ) I'd prefer 1NE of Clams as a less exciting but still workable spot among a few unexciting options.

Just my 2 cents at any rate.

Ok, I had a look at the save. I don't think we can even settle 1NW of the Eastern horses due to WK's culture. Looking at the save, 1S of the stone is very much an option imo. Ultimately, I have no real issue re where the next city is settled. I do agree with Cam re making Churchill by settling too aggressively into "his" territory.

With regards to the Oracle, I would switch the citizens to the heavy tiles and send a double-team of workers to chop out the Southern forests. BoS should also be working the pasture instead of the unimproved tile.

We have 3 workers, iirc, and I think we need 3 more. 3 teams of 2 make roading, farming and mining a relatively quick and painless chore.

@Cam and W:
I think we are NOT going to have another city settles after the one we have a settler ready for, right? Then I'd rather keep to the Horse city.

I think prefer the Stone city vs the Clam city because of its better production potential and the possibility to work it without fish and sailing. The clam city has two very good food resources but also too many non-productive tiles. I was interested in the combination of gold and food resources, looking to our SE.

Regarding the focus on food in BoS: I didn't know till this turn where the Barb archer was, so I pushed to have the option of whipping a chariot ASAP, even to the cost of penalty. Now, I think, it's indeed better to change to the pasture, as L2 will be in 2 turns only, and the BarbArcher is far enough; thanks for the tip!

If I understand correctly, we are going after the Oracle without chopping the forests and working the hammer-heavy and cottaged tiles around Snarl, as only W has supported any chopping, and I am doubtful about which way to go. Pls, let me know if I have misunderstood; thanks!

I'll play in the evening, which is about 6 hours from now, so, please, use the gap for some fine-tuning or correction; thanks!

FiveRings said:

@Cam and W:
I think we are NOT going to have another city settles after the one we have a settler ready for, right?

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Right

FiveRings said:

If I understand correctly, we are going after the Oracle without chopping the forests and working the hammer-heavy and cottaged tiles around Snarl, as only W has supported any chopping, and I am doubtful about which way to go.

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We don't have marble and are far behind re PH tech. If we want any chance at all of getting Oracle, then we have no choice but to do some chops. The Southern forests won't add to health and, although low-ish, still yield This will be especially helpful if we set Manchu to hammer tiles (forget the cottages until Oracle comes in) and send a 2 worker team to chop out forests. I'm confident that if we play it that way, we will get Oracle.

woopdeedoo said:

I'm confident that if we play it that way, we will get Oracle.

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I'm not (remotely) ... but I trust women's intuition more than my own!

I'd also consider mining the Plains Hill SE of Manchu's Snarl in addition to all of woopdeedoo's propositions.

IIRC, looking at the save, moving all citizens to hammer tiles brings Oracle in 20t. Chopping can half that. Chopping the SE hill and chopping some more will do the trick. One very important part: 2 worker team! A single worker will take way too long to chop. 2 workers together chops a forest in 2t iirc. 1 for entering, 1 for chopping. Cam, correct me if I am wrong

Well, I think you're wrong now, but it will eventually turn out that you're right, and then I'll never hear the end of it.

woopdeedoo said:

IIRC, looking at the save, moving all citizens to hammer tiles brings Oracle in 20t. Chopping can half that. Chopping the SE hill and chopping some more will do the trick. One very important part: 2 worker team! A single worker will take way too long to chop. 2 workers together chops a forest in 2t iirc. 1 for entering, 1 for chopping. Cam, correct me if I am wrong

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only 3 workers can enter and clear a forest in 2 turns, as 3 turns are needed for chopping

1320 BC (t9)
all workers go to chop-mine hill SE of Snarl
all Snarl tiles - on production -> Oracle in 14 t
Snarl settler goes to Horse City
BoS MM as suggested

1280 BC (t10)
Black Horse, aka Pusan settled: monument (30t)

1240 BC (t11)
V Frown: warrior>chariot (12t)

1160 BC (t12)
BoS: chariot>monument (6t)

1120 - 1040 BC (t13-15)
zzzzzzzz

1000 BC (t16)
Buddhism spreads to BoS, no to conversion

975 BC (t17)
1 turn to Oracle, Snarl MM to produce gold

Save and thumbnails below.

Monument and chariot in BoS and Frown: to grow before going to workers (my suggestion)

Monument in Horse: as decided

Tech from Oracle, if it happens next turn, to be decided by team. My suggestion: alphabet, to get archery for HA and math, possibly HBR.

IIRC, it is L's turn.

Thanks for the report FiveRings.

OK ... good call on The Oracle everyone! Looking at our options, Code of Laws and Metal Casting don't look too bad either, but happy enough to get Alphabet for some 2-for-1's or 3-for-1's(?).

I've got no issue with initiating a bit of whipping and getting some Granaries up as an important preparatory step in the initiation of our masterful plot!

I KNEW it!!! Awesome!!! I'll have a look at the save and comment shortly. I'm still kinda keen on CoL slingshot for Oracle. Better trading chip than Alpha imho.

Cam_H said:

Thanks for the report FiveRings.

OK ... good call on The Oracle everyone! Looking at our options, Code of Laws and Metal Casting don't look too bad either, but happy enough to get Alphabet for some 2-for-1's or 3-for-1's(?).

I've got no issue with initiating a bit of whipping and getting some Granaries up as an important preparatory step in the initiation of our masterful plot!

Click to expand...

I'd better wait till next turn: I have had instances of being overcome by a half-turn...

Sorry for the granaries: I was divided between it and the monument in the BoS, but decided that a couple of fps might come handy: a mistake, sorry! I should have also switched to workers in both BoS and Frown a couple of turns earlier, and whipped them for the OF into the monument and chariot, something that might be done (better late...). I'd also put a chariot in Horse till we get archers, and even after that - to lower switch odds - although this could be done after the first revolt, too.

BTW, I might have put the workers onto their route to the fps, so, before pushing "enter" please, make sure you are OK with the route.

Pls, don't forget that the library in the Snarl is part-finished.

I usually play on fractal, so I can't say for sure whether CoL or Currency is better. I'd also rather get Monarchy than MC: we don't seem to have the time to build forges and stables and HAs... But I'd listen to and defer to the experts on this - as long as there are any still with us, besides Cam...

BTW, judging from another game I played, economy when financial might not be such a big issue if we don't overextend...

woopdeedoo said:

I KNEW it!!! Awesome!!! I'll have a look at the save and comment shortly. I'm still kinda keen on CoL slingshot for Oracle. Better trading chip than Alpha imho.

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I'm still not sure Oracle hasn't come at a too high price (much slower rate of producing HAs), esp that we have half-researched HBR and Confu has been founded by none other than WK whom we have to conquer...

FiveRings said:

I'm still not sure Oracle hasn't come at a too high price (much slower rate of producing HAs), esp that we have half-researched HBR and Confu has been founded by none other than WK whom we have to conquer...

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Did WK found Confusion in your TS?

[EDIT] Confu hasn't been founded yet. Had a look at the save, I think we should whip the char in V and the monu in BH. Also, I still think the stone spot in the North is not too bad a city site. Now may not be the best time to settle another city but I still reckon it should be considered. [/EDIT]

woopdeedoo said:

Did WK found Confusion in your TS?

[EDIT] Confu hasn't been founded yet. Had a look at the save, I think we should whip the char in V and the monu in BH. Also, I still think the stone spot in the North is not too bad a city site. Now may not be the best time to settle another city but I still reckon it should be considered. [/EDIT]

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My head hasn't been working well the past 24 hours. I was thinking that there's no great need of acquiring a religion as we are going to acquire one thru conquest, sooner or later, and might not be interested in converting to another one in the meantime.

As to a 5th city, I would rather prefer to use the time now to cottage everything that works ASAP and prepare for a rush with stables, where adequate, particularly in the Snarl. I am sure that WK will settle a few more cities meanwhile, and we might be tempted to keep not only the capital and the shrine...

Do I need to PM Lymond?

L, if you are still with us, then my reports on my turnset, if you'd consider them worthy enough to read, are in posts #168, 196, and 209. The save is in the last one (#209).

whoa! am I up!

If so, I'll take a look at things this evening and read your very worthy reports FR. Sorry, been tied up with other things and haven't been fully engaged in this SG yet. My review should catch me up.

Errr ... hello? Two-and-a-half days atm?

Sorry for the delay. I've taken a look at the save. Honestly, I'm a little confused at just how poorly developed our cities are at this point. I'm not sure the reason for this. The Bay of Storms has been around for a long time with absolutely no infra. And no city outside the cap has received any worker love. We have a worker way down south on a tile that cannot be worked by any city.

Not sure of the direction here.

HBR is will be complete in 3 turns. We would still need Hunting and Archery if we want to attack with HAs. Not sure who to attack first. I'd wait on Gandhi so he can develop that jungle land. Wang seems logical, but yet his empire seems to stretch quite far to the East. We could take a couple of cities and make peace. England might be a good target for settling our spots.

What to take with Oracle? CoL? Monarchy? maybe even Alpha? CoL is the best beaker choice, but doesn't do much for us at present.

Not sure if we should try to get a couple of cities out or just prep the cities for war. I could go the war route, but our empire is sorely underdeveloped.

2 cities can drop the Monuments as they are not needed. The city building the chariot needs a monument. I'll then build barracks and stables and start HA production. Snarl will continue to grow and build a stable and get out another worker or two.

The Worker was involved with chopping out The Oracle.

I believe the thinking was that we were going to attack the Korean Hindu Holy City and the Korean Capital with Horse Archers (that ignore Protective Drill promotions). There was some debate as to whether this would be better done with Hwachas, but we've gone with the horsies.

At this point we were discussing options for The Oracle, but Alphabet seems a popular option.

We can also consider the value of whipping out some Granaries as a precursor to whipping out a Horse Archer invasion force.

I'd be happy for the rest of the roster (esp. woopdeedoo and FiveRings) to confirm or amend this thinking and comment on lymond's proposals.