Screaming Orange Pumpkins - RR16B - It's tax day again ...

I think we underestimate now the pure power of running scientists. The lack of early representation is of course detrimental, but doesn't mean that if 8 cities run each at least 2 scientists it isn't 56 beakers itself.

Getting Caste here could be interesting.

yes our game will be slower then typical game run with slider, but we have some options to tech ourselfs some key techs for trading/cheapening

Speaking of scientists - have we thought about where we could have a GP farm?
I don't like Uruk despite the food, as it has to much production to throw away.
Can't load the game at work to check the other cities.

Yes, I can look now at work. I can see the forums, but not the main page.

I don't like any of the current cities for GP farms either. We could set up fish/corn in the SW, but really it's not much of a concern for some time. As I mentioned earlier, we may likely capture a better GP farm (and more timely).

925 BC
Wake up the excess Vultures in Amsterdam and start marching them toward the Vikings.
I trade Churchill copper for horses. Kish is swapped to chariot.
Cancel several worker actions.

900 BC
I got the granary right in Eridu - 25 shields of overflow.

875 BC
Vulture in Uruk with 27 shields of overflow.

850 BC
We sign open borders with Churchill. A second civ has writing.

825 BC
WTH - our trade route with Churchill just died?

800 BC
Now we are trading horses again.

650 BC
A big stack of units is now along Rag's borders.
Our big stack of units scares the crap out of Asoka - he gives us writing.


Summary:
I think the only thing I did different then discussed is Lagash is *not* working the gold. 2 FP cottages, 2 grassland cottages, and the gold will actually produce a city with decent income.

Roster:
lymond
LKendter -
timmy827 (swapped)
vranasm (up)
pigswill (on deck)
vanatteveldt

Looking very nice. Writing .

Churchill aint too far away. Maybe clear a path through vikingdom and target London next.

Lookin' good, LK!!! Your "arrogance" paid off

Only thing would have done different is put 2 workers on the road south.

Pig - Asoka is the better target as he has Alpha. We can get nothing from Church if we attack him. Plus, his protective archers can be troublesome. Asoka is a pussycat.

My thoughts:

1) We can OB Rag this turn a take a peak at Nidaros with a chariot. Can determine whether we attack this turn or next. (not sure on stack movement points at present

2) Barracks can be 2popped in Ivory city next turn for some nice OF into a unit or Lib. I guess unit would be best

3) Finish Mids in Dam, but we want a WB out asap for the border pop in 6 or 7 turns which should give us access to whatever is west. May be just an island or a whole landmass. Should be worth the exploration.

4) Definitely binary Alpha for now. If we don't put beakers into it the AIs are less likely to give it to us when we extort

5) Uruk should be able to get a Lib out quickly after vulture finishes and start running 2 scientists. Best place for it at present. Amsterdam may be able to run some as well (eventually) and Eridu, but may want Eridu focused on production.

I still have to check the save...since sitting at work whole day and thus I wanted to hold back with comments...

but my pure guess would be at least 2 libraries, better 3 in our core (Uruk, Eridu, Amsterdam), but I think finishing Mids takes precedence.

The scouting trick hears very nice.

I wouldn't use the word "binary" here since it usually means something completely different ;-).

My intention will be to launch offensive against Rag and stop back after capturing Nidaros and/or meeting some unexpected things and after consultation either handing over or playing some more.

Seems like we are in agreement a lot with L even without me checking save, but the progress hears so nice from the report...

ha...yeah "binary" is not the right word. let's say placeholder with a purpose

Also, meant to add that I would prefer that Lagash work the gold now. We want to reducethe amount of time we go into the deficit. Also, pull workers outside borders back inside to chop or whatever. External border chops are not really worth it anyway, and we pay for workers outside borders. Even saving 1gpt is good here.

All this will get much easier later when we extort currency, since cities like Eridu will be great for wealth building, if we are not just in full war mode the rest of the game....ha

Lymond: we get great wall from Churchill and we want to kill him before he gets to feudalism. CG2 archers are troublesome, CG3 longbows are a nightmare.

Nothing siege and spies can't cure. The Church archers are just as troublesome for axemen as lbs will be later. I'm not ruling it out mind you. Let's see what happens after we knock Rag down a notch. However, I prefer techs at the moment. We want alpha and currency as soon as we can possibly get it. Also, we should have a bit more map knowledge in a few turns.

We are to the point that we are getting TO many units. We need buildings to produce, or at least wealth when nothing else to do.

I don't want to work the gold in Lagash - we can have that city working 4 cottages if we are patient and grow into the gold last. We have very little cottage land, and IMO we need to develop some cottages - we still don't know if this is a long-term game. I am willing to run a deficit in case this is a long-term game. I won't assume we can win with our continent.

Some of those out of border workers are for Lagash - that city isn't a fast grower. I would prefer to NOT whip the granary. Some chop help is much better.

Complete the Pyramids BEFORE the WB please. It is already late in the game to build that.

Lymond: I do no doubt that we can overcome CG3 LBS, but I'm guessing that the difference between vultures vs archers and seige/spies vs longbows is at least a thousand years.

LK: I wouldn't worry too much about too many units, we'll start losing them soon enough.

Generally: I'm still thinking of rush and raze, keeping a few cities as focal points for later landgrab. This does indeed depend on whether our continent has the 64% of land we need for domination. I guess our gallant WB will discover this if it doesn't run into a barb galley. Rush and raze will encourage barb spawn which is why I want gwall. However as Lymond has already pointed out we'll know better in the near future and the immediate concern is weakening Rags.

checking the save now... all thoughts are forming a PPP ;-) (the intent is to play 24 hours from this post)

I like the OB trick with scouting towards Nidaros with chariot and will do it as first step

next step is DoW Ragnar if nothing too surprising visible and move 9 vultures 1SE, next turn 1S of the sign, next turn take nidaros and stop for more feedback

That means I should form what I plan to do with cities in next 3-4 turns

Uruk finishes Vulture, starts on Library (due in 3-4 turns, 17H OF from building V --> 34 hammers into library, 18 base prod --> 36 prod into library so something like 3 turns most probably)

Eridu continues with building Library, next turn growth will work GH, with a little bit luck in the short TS the Library finishes

Amsterdam builds Mids

Kish will whip barracks next turn, it has only 2 good tiles, no reason to stay at size 4, the question is if put in unit or library for some bonus hammers (should be 16H of OF) - with 19 vultures available I am the meaning putting the OF into library to be better and would like to do so

Lagash I very slightly agree here with LK that working cottages for only 2 turns is better then to switch into gold now, since the city after switch needs 7 turns to grow.
I will stop the granary build though... don't see us growing this city/whipping this city, thus the build is suboptimal in my eyes.
We will have there 4 hammers production in 2 turns...so "pumping" chariots there (cheapest build) seems like best course of action

_____________

Workers

I would stop the worker building cottage near Lagash and use it for chopping one of those PF for Mids in dam

workers near Kish could improve road network between Dam and Kish to form better line, I feel we can build good improvements around right now with the lack of IW and CS
Big question is how to improve Kish, we could run there those PF's in times of need and stagnate it low

the road towards Ragnar has to be finished and I will redirect the worker south from Uruk chopping to help with roading towards Ragnar.

Since we probably won't get workers from Raggy right now, there surely will be some need for improvements around nidaros so those 2 workers could relocate.

Last worker will work on those plain forests around Eridu.

Well that's it...

thumbs up the game looks much better now!

Agree with everything, V. Love the Lagash worker move

Don't forget WB out of Dam after Mids (yeah, LK...i meant after mids)

Also, there is a worker just west of Kish that might get into position faster for roading south. Worker south of Uruk can move back into borders to chop.

I think Uruk Lib will finish in 2 turns.

Here's a thought. We definitely want to line up Alpha here soon for some passive beakers. However, we might want to make a try at a POT<>Sailing trade with Asoka. If we put Sailing in the queue now and run some scientists when Libs finish, we may be able to trade for it in a few turns. Sailing trade routes would be a boon.

Yep, I like the Lib in Kish from OF. Although if Rag looks more daunting than expected we might want a unit. You will know this turn with the chariot move.

Kish can easily run some scientists. (i'm not opposed to throwing down some nontraditional cottages in this city later as well. not much we can do improvement was for some time and every bit of commerce helps.)

^^ don't forget I will eventually (I hope team allows) play full TS, just will stop for correction after Nidaros and we have there some time to influence if I forget about the WB after Mids ;-)

First part of the TS is played

I open the borders with Ragnar
<SS>

and send scout
<SS>
the defense is 3 archers, one of them CG 2, with 9 vultures should be easy task even if there will be most probably 4 archers once i arrive there

so I decide to attack this turn
<SS>

haha nice OF in Uruk into library
<SS>
should be in 2 turns indeed

Ragnar whipped Axeman in Nidaros
<SS>
making the defense 1 axe and 3 archers...

I used couple of suicide vultures to weaken defense (all 4 lost on odds, but weakening the defenders) then lost ANOTHER Vulture on 85!! odds...then win 4 fights in a row...i hate this game...
anyway we got Capital of ragnar with ToA
<SS>

I end the turn and do some finishing moves before we decide how to move further

This is how it looks around in Ragnar's land
<SS>
our troops are on the move towards Nidaros.

Uppsala looks pretty weak, but we don't have army in position though, we could gamble on 12% odds to win the city though :-D

We can run scientists in Uruk and Eridu – pending decision, cities started on military again

Mids will probably be finished in 2 turns with the chop on PF finishing next turn (didn't check exactly)

i repeat the intent is to play further, but want see some feedback first ;-)

sorry for the lack of screenshots... the tags "< SS >" mean here I wanted to place screenshot but thanks to the &*^*&%*$&% photobucket can't since it says in upload "resize error imp"

Looks fine to me. We should of course expect losses, that's why we build more.

Asoka doesn't have pottery! Trade opportunity?

Eridu is about to go unhappy, uruk ain't growing. Give Uruk the second corn for a couple of turns to solve both problems.

With our few cities we're already on 10% land, looks like we'll have more than enough for dom.

Why is Nidaros building a monument? Force of habit I suspect.

edit: don't forget WB after mids.

I don't think we have much of choice with scientists. We need to start moving ahead with science. If nothing else, progress toward Alpha may cause Asoka to wimp again and give us the rest.

Not sure when I can look at the game - good chunk of tonight commited, as is tomorrow.

I would like to get a medic chariot out of this war. One of the big reasons I like to build a couple of them early on.

haha we are creative...well my bad... Nidaros isn't connected so I couldn't choose vulture, so monument is placeholder...will have to fix this.

what about military directions? I kind of wanted to move vultures towards new Rag capital and take it... we have 3 full health, 1 will be a little bit injured in Nidaros and will last the most injured as defender.
There is close to nidaros another bunch of vultures.

uruk and eridu employs scientists then? IMPORTANT! Will limit military reinforcements a bit
And what tech put into? I liked the sailing idea from L earlier, but not sure now.

We can't extort from Asoka yet anyway.

chariots should continue with mapping land around Rag cities most probably

We are 2.2 above Rag, so he has only bunch of defenders around most probably

Have to write somewhere down the WB in Dam, maybe will just queue it up

Kish will finish Library in 2 and I think we will employ there scientists too?

Scientists where possible and go for alphabet. Squish Rags a bit then we can come back for seconds once we (or he) has alphabet for some good old fashioned extortion.