QSC-C2e - Hannabaline & the 300 Spartans - Emperor

I'm currently playing this game at the regent level.

I'm fairly sure they work at the same redused speed as the other captured/bought workers. It takes one normal worker and one foreign one turn to finish a road at a grasstile, while it takes three foreign ones to finish the same piece of road. This is worth considering when you make up the worker crews.
 
where is the easy upload facility? so that I can send in my report.
the files are somewhat larger than 100kb
 
The 'easy upload' link is at the *very* bottom of any forum page, to the right -- "Upload File". Since that's a javascript poppup, I prefer to go to a normal web page directly:

http://www.civfanatics.net/upload.html

Click the browse button, find you file, hit ok, and then (key step)
don't close the window until you get the "Upload Confirmation" page next. On this page, choose the 'View uploads' link which will show the upload folder. Click the 'date' link to get it to sort by date, a second time if you like to put most recent up top, and then you can right click and "copy shortcut" to get the h t t p link, which you can then paste into your post.

Charis
 
ok my first report (4000-2590bc). all saves files are in one easy zip file instead of zipped file by file.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/flexo-qsc-q2e-report-1.zip

4000 bc 1
mountains and deserts, what a wonderful starting position, not. I move the worker up on the hill to the right. ok i see a cow, that is good. better to settle here then to spend a turn in movement. found carthage. hey! there is ivory just to the north, excellent. a warrior in the que, might need some protection in this harsh land. i'm torn between pottery in 13t or bronze in 19t. spartan hoplites sure have great stats. but since this is emperor level i'll need a quick growth spurt to survive so I go for pottery in 13t (sci 90%)

3950 bc 2
move the worker down from the hill to the grassland to road and mine.

3900 bc 3
start roading

3850 bc 4
all work and no fun make flexo sleepy.

3800 bc 5
road done, mine construction starting.

3750 bc 6
warrior done, time to go take a looksie at the world as we don't know it. i'll try and stick to mountaineering so I go to the left hill first. hey there is another source of ivory just north of the one I already know. I start building a barrack for a settler switch later on. this might be my undoing, have to see how I can cope with the unhappy people if I don't provide the ivory.

3700 bc 7
moving to the top of the world with my warrior. revealing yet another ivory. mohahaahah! i'm the godess of ivory :)

3650 bc 8
warrior going to hill. worker to the flood plain to get a quick connect to the ivory as I expand in 3 turns.

3600 bc 9
road the floodplain, warrior to the next mountain top.

3550 bc A
warrior takes another mountain top. spots a source of gold. money, money, money must be funny in a rich queens world.

** SAVE : flexo_QSC_C2e_bc3550.sav **
** I know noone, I have pottery in 2t, 1t away from pop increase. 10 gold +0 pt, sci 90%. 1 warrior, 1 worker. **


3500 bc 1
culture expands to reveal an american regular (3/3) just south of my new border. road is done, gonna connect the ivory. I get the pop, some micromanagement done, stuck at pop 2 but pottery next turn for a switch to granary will fix that. warrior moves to the forest. adjust sci to 10% and get me 4gp/t

Lincon is annoyed, and outnumbers me.
He has bronze and pottery + 1 gold. I have alphabet and 10 gold.
Trade: [Ame] Bronze working + Pottery > Alphabet + 2g.
Linc goes to cautious

I switch to granary (16t). Math in 40t (sci 10%: 4gp/t)

3450 bc 2
starting to road the ivory. a jaguar warrior (3/3) comes to my border.

Monty is polite. Monty has WarriorCode+Burial and 10gp

Trade: [Azt] Masonry > Warrior Code + 10g. [Azt] Pottery + 3g > Ceremonial burrial.
Crap! I should have done that in reverse to get some extra gold in my coffins.

HA! I go to check what is up with Lincon.
Trade: [Ame] Warrior code + 9g > two workers.
Not having any workers should scew Lincon some. Sucker!

Warrior goes between forests. He spots another JW (3/3).

My american slaves move to water and road the cow. I do some money management (6:1:3) to make my second citizen happy without the ivory so he'll work to. now only making 3gpt.

3400 bc 3
warriors move to the green field between hills and forest. revealing a small lake. excellent. american slaves start roading the cow.


3350 bc 4
an aztech worker moves towards my warrior, what the heck is he doing out here. can't attack him since I have no home defence and the JW are close to home. warrior move to the hill. Ivory connection :) Lux down to 0 making 5gpt. worker moves up to build road for a quick move to the next city. Science to 100% math in 33, 0 gpt

3300 bc 5
worker road the next ivory square. the aztech worker moved passed the lake. slaves starts watering the cow. warrior moves south to hill, revealing a furry beaver living in the woods.

3250 bc 6
warrior moves down ontop of the hill. I see coastlines but no aztech borders yet.

3200 bc 7
ivory road done. stupid jw steps on the other ivory so I can move there this turn. move back inside my border and mine that ivory. slaves have drowned the cow. slaves cross the river back, moving to chop down the woods by the city, should be a boost for my settler. warrior moves down towards the hill. A quick trade look: Linc has 53gold, no tech, Monty has 4gp, no tech, I have alpha, someone traded him BW.

3150 bc 8
pop to 3. Must adjust lux rate. Sci > 90% Lux > 10%. Math in 25t, 0 gp/t. warrior moves to hill.

3100 bc 9
slaves start choppin'. warrior get a goto order to the Carthage.

3050 bc A
Ivory mine done, moving to road the third ivory. warriors move one step closer.
Trade with Monty: Alphabet > Worker + 4gp. New slave move to water the floodplain.

** SAVE : flexo_QSC_C2e_bc3050.sav **
** We are the same, all have the same tech, noone has a second city. Linc has the most money. **


3000 bc 1
My border is approached by an iroquois scout. My border is approached by a persian spearmen (3/3). Worker road the third ivory. Warrior one step away from Carthage. Granary built. Settler in 5t. The granary has a negative effect on my income. net loss -1. I'll live with that.

Hiawatha is cautious. 10gp, I have masonry, alpha + warrior code. Xerxes is annoyed. 3gp, I have alphabet and ceremonial burial. No trades.

2950 bc 2
Herodotus happiest civ list: 1. aztec : 2. german : 3. greek : 4. chinese : 5. iroquoi : 6. american : 7. persia : 8. carthagenians

I'm last?! Whatever! PHUCK! The Aztecs build Teotihuacan very close to where I wanted to build my next city. A quick mod of my plan has to be made.

2900 bc 3
Warrior guards the capital. My worker moves back towards the capital.

2850 bc 4
American Slaves cut down the forest, settler in 1. Worker moves to the square next to the cows. Slave i bought last is listed as "worker (a barbarian chiefdom)". Cool! My american slaves road the former wood area. My barbarian slave roads the square next to watered one.

2800 bc 5
Settler done, moving along the road north. Building another. Every worker| slave is roading.

2750 bc 6
american slaves start mining their square. found Utica, warrior in 5t

2710 bc 7
Worker moves up to road another square. Time to road to my next city. Barb Slave moves up to floodplains. Worker roads. Lux > 0%. 0 gp/t

2670 bc 8
?! What did I do this turn. I forgot to write it down. Couldn't have been anything interesting.

2630 bc 9
American slaves move to the next little wood area to cut it down.

2590 bc A
Cutting down the forrest. Worker moves outside border, will road to the hills.

** SAVE : flexo_QSC_C2e_bc2590.sav **
** forgot to make comparrison **
 
did the second report to (2550-1525bc)

Posted prematurly. Removed until later.
 
2510 BC
I never pay enough attention to my citizens' happiness... Warrior #3 is sent back to Utica which, having completed the barracks at the cost of 1 citizen, is not too happy. I will start another warrior there...

Warrior #1 (or whatever number I gave to the one that went exploring towards the Aztecs) goes 1NW.

Warrior # slowly returns home: 1N

Leptis Magna founded - production set to barracks.

The worker has completed the road over the elephant (who was so patient as to allow this do be done...) and goes to Leptis Magna, with the purpose of building some more road to the northern fur.



2470 BC
Utica is happy again. This warrior will have to run like an idiot between Utica and Carthago, in whose neighbourhood some American troops are moving a little too much for my liking...

I still haven't decided what use I will do of the Spartan Hoplite...

Warrior #1 moves 1NW, warrior#2 1N meeting a barbarian camp.

worker goes 1N



2430 BC
Warrior #2 goes 1W; worker starts road; warrior #1 defeats a barbarian warrior, gets promoted to Veteran and collects 25 gold pieces. There has also appeard another message I could not read. What could that be?



2390 BC
My people loved me for the second time (...).


Some more exploration - I spotted Iroquois' borders to the NW, so I think warrior #2 will backtrack to go to the future cities' location.

Carthage reached population 2; in 5-6 turns another settler will come.



2310 BC
Utica built its warrior, another one in queue. I think I will start building Spartan Hoplite soon; a worker as soon as the city has grown some more.
I havent' checked the other civs frequently enough to buy one from them; that would have been a nice advantage though.

Warrior #3 goes back to Carthage, the other two slowly turn back.



2230 BC
Worker has completed the road to the planned city site. It will go back to Leptis Magna to irrigate the flood plain and mine the grassland. It will later build a mine next to Carthage as well. I think I am starting to need another worker.



2190 BC
Carthage is one turn from the next settler. Warrior #1 has reached the position of the next city (close to Ivory); Utica is also one turn from warrior.



2150 BC
The newest warrior will spend some time going to the mountain range NE of Utica;
the settler is on his way. Utica starts building a worker.



2110 BC
Writing discovered. I will go for Monarchy now, hoping that trading will help speed up the process. Embassies established with Aztecs (32 gold) and Americans (34 g).
Both are building a settler.

Worker starts mining just north of Carthage.



2070 BC
Theveste founded; Ivory connected. Barracks started in Theveste.
I have seen an Aztec Archer moving around...

Traded Writing to Iroquois for Mysticism, Horseback Riding and 80 gold.
Traded Writing + HR + 47 gold to America for Iron Working
Traded Writing to Aztecs for 71 gold

Yuk! Iron is right next to Leptis Magna...

Embassy with Iroquois (47 g). Salamanca is completing a Settler.
Embassy with Persians (43 g); they do not seem to have a good starting location.

Set lux slider to 0 and science to 90%. Polytheism in 24 turns... A lot of time.



2030 BC
Lost veteran warrior to Barbarian.



1990 BC
Utica makes the Worker, who is sent 1W to work the grassland. I am also thinking of connecting the Horses to Utica, but that can wait a few turns. Also, building horsemen will take some time but I doubt I could have gone for a massive warrior & Chariots upgrade...

Worker #1 goes to irrigate the flood plain next to Theveste.



1870 BC
Worker #2 completes road, starts mine. Carthage has grown to 2 (one-two turns ago), three turns to pop3 + Settler.
Sold Writing to Xerxes for 52 gold.



1790 BC
Utica has made the warrior, and started another one. This warrior is sent to Leptis, while the one staying there will go to the next city site -Chartage is one turn from producing her settler.

The Aztec beat me to the first spot, founding Texcoco for us there...

Another nice place for founding a city will be along the river to the west of Theveste.



1725 BC
The last settler is going to found a city next to the unclaimed Iron west of Theveste. The second worker will build a road to the hills NE of Utica (I will found the next city there); Leptis, having grown too fast for my attention and having spent yet another turn rioting, is brought back to pop 2 by hurrying the barracks.



1650 BC
Other civs are starting to build Wonders.
I had to give 28 g to the Aztec, as he had a JW within striking distance of an unescorted Carthaginian settler.

Hippo is founded in the anticipated spot just in time, as an Aztec settler is seen approaching fast...



1575 BC
Hurried Barracks in Theveste.

The Americans have expanded north of the mountain range, getting close to Carthage and cutting the Persians from further northern expansion.

The Aztecs are doing the same with the Iroquois. As the bondaries take their shape, so are my war plans...



1525 BC
Carthage is (again) one turn from another Settler. Room for founding new cities is geeting small. I may change production queue for Carthage after this settler is built. A warrior is coming next turn, so that this is the state of neoCarthage at 1525 BC:


Five cities.
184 gold in treasury (+1 per turn, four turns to Polytheism).
Army: 2 Workers, 8 warriors.

Histograph:
neoCarthage 197
Iroquois 181
America 177
Aztecs 174
Persia 160


Below is an image of the known world at 1525 BC.

EDIT: the zipped save files are here
 
flexo,

We need you to pay attention to the schedule and the examples of how the game needs to procedd or you just creat disruption and confusion.

What we try to do is have all the reports and uploads for a round of play completed and then let me get the statistics up to support some discussion.

As it is, you first round submission was two days lat and I have been waiting for you and then you slammed your sceond round report in before I could even locate and analyse the game.

While this may seem like a small issue, it can just create a mess and make the game hard to follow if you tune out how all the other players are trying to move forward in progressive steps.

What I would prefer that you do is to use the edit function to reduce your second round report to just a comment and save that post until I get the statistics up later today.

As it was, you made it almost impossible for me to effectively support you in your game with the valuable statistics analysis just by how you chose to follow the game schedules.

-- cracker

PS: Karasu you need to do the same thind to give me a chance to respond eve thoung I know you were just following Flexo/s example.
 
You're right Cracker.

I submitted my first round of saves in a real hurry. Having never used the upload feature, I didn't trust myself to use it for the first time in those circumstances.

My last post should be in line with the best practice -if I have to cut the report shorter, just let me know -you are aware that I am not too comfortable with keeping timelines yet...



P.S. Many thanks to Charis for making the last step so clear -that's where my doubts lay. Now no more, I've become an experienced uploader... :D
 
Here is the summary data table for 2590bc showing all players in both the emperor and regent groups.



The tech cost/value is different from Regent to Emperor, and you can see the Regent tech values displayed on the right hand side of the table in the tech section.

The tech costs are higher on Emperor and this means that the value of technolgy is greater because it costs more to obtain.

What dominates the difference between the two groups is that the Regent group is lagging behind almost across the board because early contacts are harder to come by. If you look at the Emperor game section, virtually every player has made contact with 4 neighbors while in the regent game the AI's have no early added units to help increase the chances of contacts. Contacts effect the direct cost of technology as well as the relative costs of traded techs and maps. Having fewer early contacts slows down the progress of the game even though technogly has a cheeper base cost.
 
Great openings all, and thanks cracker for your work in analysis, excellent as usual! :hammer:

Turn 30 comments - it's interesting to see how various folks discuss whether
to settle on the starting spot or not. All seemed to give it careful consideration,
but half chose to stay, one went on the hill, two south, one SW. Almost all on emperor
head for the cow to irrigate it, after mining a BG. Arizona for some reason ignored
the cattle for the first millenium, but he did irrigate the flood plains.

I happen to think initial build order is a fairly good indicator
of early success. I'm going to collate build orders then predict from
that alone what the ranking will be at turn 30. In particular, I look
for an early granary, enough scouts but no excess warriors, and avoiding
workers (this map only, due to excess slave traffic).

Build orders:
Arizona: W-W-W-S-W-G
Borealis: W-W-Wk-W-G-Hop-S
Charis: W-G-S-B
Flexo: W-G-S-S
Hotrod: W-W-S-W-S-G
Justus: W-W-W-G-S-W-S
Karasu: W-S-W-S-W-S
Meldor: W-W-W-G-S-S
Swiftsure:W-W-G-S-S

I look at the orders alone and predict this ranking:
Charis, Justus, Flexo and Swiftsure on top, no particular order.
Next up Karasu, Meldor and Hotrod. Then Borealis and Arizona.
(Arizona has too many warriors, although on other maps that could have
meant extra techs from huts. And Hotrod lost food/growth with two settlers
before a granary) Do note that *ALL* Emperor players built a granary.

Actual score at turn 30: Top four as predicted, then Meldor,
Borealis, Karasu. Hotrod and Arizona slightly behind.
Rather close to my prediction!! Hotrod was behind because of zero slaves,
or he would have been higher where I predicted :p Borealis edged up,
conversely, with 3 slaves. (But wow, what paranoia about AI attacks :p )

Let me repeat the exercise in Regent...

Skyfish: W-W-S-G
Stwils: W-W-Wk-S-Hop
Zagnut: W-W-G-S-S
Takeo: W-S-W-G-S
Zenga: W-Wk-W-G-S-W-S
Nightfang: W-W-G-S-Hop
Singular: W-S-S-S

The following predictions are purely on build order FOR THIS Map, and
say nothing about player skill or how these would work on other maps:

Predicted rank: Takeo, Zagnut; Nightfang,Zenga,Singular; Skyfish,Stwils
Actual rank: Takeo, Skyfish; Nightang, Zagnut, Zenga; Stwils,Singular
Again, build order was a good predictor of turn 30 progress.
Skyfish was MUCH higher than I expected from the order, and it's because
he absolutely cleaned clock on techs. Singular was slightly lower, and this
was due to low contacts. Zagnut came out a little low, which can be explained
by his very low treasury.

Looking more closely, Singularity's very low warrior count led to his low
contact count (although low counts often reverse themselves, they do affect
your economy). Skyfish's tech success was in fact deliberate, his science
gambit. Zagnut's science spending and unrest oops hurt a little, although
he might make that up next set of turns if he can get a good trade on Writing.
It's no coincidence that the two low scores built no granaries :p

The only one in *either* group that I read mining the cow was stwils. (I only point this out as it was a big discussion issue in QSC-1 where folks more evenly split mining vs irrigation. Here, needing the food bonus more, irrigation is quite likely the stronger choice)

Conclusion 1: The Charis "Thumbs up" award for innovation this set of turns goes to...
Skyfish and his science strategy :goodjob:
Conclusion 2: Build a granary SOMETIME before your second settler.
Conclusion 3: Even when I'm not fighting, the "Genghis" in me manages to field
together a slave labor force that is *double* the nearest other player :hammer:

:D
Charis
 
Actually, the chart is wrong. I grabbed 3 slaves and PM'd cracker as such ;). The additional 105 will put me right back in the pack.

Hotrod
 
Tech Research Choices:

Charis: Writing

Hotrod: Pottery - Writing

Meldor: Warrior Code - Pottery - Iron Working

Steve: Pottery - Wheel - IW

Justus: Pottery - Math

karasu: Writing

Swiftsure: Pottery - Writing

Borealis: Pottery - Writing

Flexo: Pottery - Math

Most players went with Pottery from the start to get that early granary Charis spoke of and because it is cheap and if you pop a hut who wants the chance to get a cheap tech. 2 players went tier 2 from the start. I suspect this is a special case. Masonry and Alphabet are expensive free techs to start with and will fetch some good trades. Charis, for example, has yet to complete any self research but already has brokered for most of the tier 1 techs.

I don't think this works with just any Civ. Looking just at the tech costs it is apparent that Carthage is in a very strong tech position from the get go and you can almost be garanteed a good trade opportunity just because you have such great techs to trade.

Writing will get most of the remaining Tier 2 techs as well I suspect. Math may not be as powerful but we shall see when round 2 is completed. We can compare tech position of Flexo and Justus to the rest who went for Writing and Steve and Meldor, both chose IW. Maybe Meldor has designs on the pointed stick research plan. :hammer: ;)

Hotrod

Just a couple observations along the same lines as Charis build order, tech choices are just as important.
 
Originally posted by Charis

I happen to think initial build order is a fairly good indicator
of early success. I'm going to collate build orders then predict from
that alone what the ranking will be at turn 30. In particular, I look
for an early granary, enough scouts but no excess warriors, and avoiding
workers (this map only, due to excess slave traffic).

Build orders:
Borealis: W-W-Wk-W-G-Hop-S

I look at the orders alone and predict this ranking:
Charis, Justus, Flexo and Swiftsure on top, no particular order.
Next up Karasu, Meldor and Hotrod. Then Borealis and Arizona.
(Arizona has too many warriors, although on other maps that could have
meant extra techs from huts. And Hotrod lost food/growth with two settlers
before a granary) Do note that *ALL* Emperor players built a granary.

Actual score at turn 30: Top four as predicted, then Meldor,
Borealis, Karasu. Hotrod and Arizona slightly behind.
Rather close to my prediction!! Hotrod was behind because of zero slaves,
or he would have been higher where I predicted :p Borealis edged up,
conversely, with 3 slaves. (But wow, what paranoia about AI attacks :p )

*shrug* Paranoia about AI attacks... maybe it's almost always playing in PTW, but the last few times I've sent out an unguarded settler with this many AI around, they either kill it or raze the city before it can get a defender. The next step was the archer-stack-at-the-capital-gates act that made me wonder if one of the bloodthirsty humans playing online had hacked into my machine and controlled the AI. :crazyeye: After that run of bad luck, I decided to be careful in this QSC. It will probably put me behind the other emperor players, but I'm not too upset about that given the roster I see here. :p

Good call on the slaves being available making you skip the early second worker- I forgot about the reduced cost for them in 1.29, and I've never seen so many available this early.
 
Very interesting. So we can conclude that a Granary is the foundation of every empire. No empire built without one.

How come we are 9 emperor players but only 7 regent? Did they drop out?

As noted in the tech comparrison I chose Math over Writing (how one can accomplished without the other I don't know). Having sold the secret of the Alphabet to half of my contacts I gambled on that they would go the writing way and that I should be able to pick up writing from them since they tend to share freely among eachother. From previous gaming experience I have found that the AI usually likes to research Writing before Math so by getting Math before writing I was hoping for a trade with some extra goodies. This turned out to be a misstake of sort since the others Civs didn't do as I had hoped and I had to research Writing myself. But I could use my Math for trading.

The main tech difference between myself and Justus is that he traded for the wheel on his 30'th turn. I waited a few more turns to do that.
 
OK it is now nearly 1600 CET on the 16th so it should be safe to post my second report (sorry for that premature posting previously).

edit:
DUH! It would have been great if I had remembered to post a link to the saves to ... here goes report 2 savefiles (3in1 zip collection).

From 2550 > 1525BC


** SECOND REPORT START **

2550 bc 1
Settler done, Next one in que. Utica builds a warrior, Guarding, keep building warrirors. Settler moves towards the hill.

2510 bc 2
Barb Worker starts irrigation. Settler moves ontop of hill.

2470 bc 3
American scouts flies by outside my borders. Heading south. Found Leptis Magna on the hill. Time to build some hoplites.

2430 bc 4
Leptis connected. Mine the square before.

2390 bc 5
American workers cut down the forrest > Settler gets build two turns faster :) Moving settler to the furs I saw earlier. American worker road the former forest square. Sci > 70%, Math will be done next turn.

2350 bc 6
sci > 70%, writing in 23t; 2gp/t. Utica builds a warrior, time to scout about a bit, going to gold. Barb slave move down to help mining around Magna.

Time to trade!
Linc (1+1 city:0g) has The wheel, Iron working and mysticism.
Xerx (1+1 ci:30g) Wheel, Iron (not alphabet)
Iroq (1+1 ci:0g) Wheel, Iron (not alphabet)
Azte (1+1 ci:86g) wheel, iron, myst.

So trade alpha with xerx and iroq first. then try and get myst from linc, and math for all of montys gold.

Trade:
[Iroq] Alphabet > The Wheel
[Ame] Math > Myst + Iron
[Per] Alphabet > 30g
[Azt] Math > 86g

Sci > 90%, netloss -1 : writing in 17t

2310 bc 7
worker move thru Magna for road/mine square south of its river. barb worker, starts road/mine south of main road to magna. settler moves one step closer to site. american workers split. one moves out into the unknown, one moves to work around Utica.

2270 bc 8
just moving around a bit. nothing exciting happend.

2230 bc 9
Found Theveste. Looks like i beat an aztech settler to the place. There is a barb camp there to. Must move warrior there quickly. Warrior leaves Utica for Theveste.

2190 bc A
Barb worker start mining. Worker start mining.

** SAVE : flexo_QSC_C2e_bc2190.sav **

2150 bc 1
Utica builds warrior, Hoplite next. Other just work|move.

2110 bc 2
Settler done. Moving left. I see that the aztecs are moving a JW to kill the barb camp.

2070 bc 3
American worker chopping some wood for the to be city. Worker going to connect Magna > Theveste. Warrior reaches Theveste.

2030 bc 4
Found Hippo. Theveste warrior moving to put barb camp out. My scouting warrior moves back home, there could be a barb camp between him and Utica.

1990 bc 5
Magna Hoplite done, settler next. NOOOOOOOO! Warrior looses (barb at 1/2). Magna Hoplite moving to protect Theveste.

1950 bc 6
Livy lists the wealthiest nations:
1. Carthaginians : 2. Chinese : 3. Germans : 4. Iroquois : 5. Americans : 6. Greeks. : 7. Persians : 8. Aztechs

My spies inform me that the Iroquois have started constructing the Oracle.

Just for the heck of it I watch the world ranking:
160 NeoCarthaginians : 150 America : 146 Iroquois : 137 Aztecs : 128 Persia

Barb worker mines a roaded square. Next to the wet cow. Utica can't grow beyond two at the moment.

1910 bc 7
The people love me! They build me a spiffy platform. Utica warrior defeats a barbarian regular (1/3). Sci > 30% Writing in 1t (+14gpt)
Warrior (3/3) attack barb camp north of Utica. Defeat! ;(

1870 bc 8
sci > 90 % litterature in 12t (+1gpt). Settler done. Building another one. Change Leptis Magna from Settler to Temple.

1830 bc 9
Aztech JW takes out the Thevese barbarian camp. Thanks! Thevese builds a warrior, guess I can scout around a bit.

1790 bc A
Thevese connected to empire road grid. Moving settler.

** SAVE: flexo_QSC_C2e_bc1790.sav **

** BREAK IN THE REPORT FOR A SCREENSHOT **



** RETURN TO THE REPORTS LAST 1/3 **

1750 bc 1
Utica builds Hoplite. Sends warrior scouting. Worker moves to build a road to the forests beavers.

1725 bc 2
Found Leptis Minor.

1700 bc 3
Nothing much happens. Just another dull day in the empire.

1675 bc 4
Crap! Forgot to adjust my lux rate. Civil disorder in Magna.

1650 bc 5
A little birdie tells me the Persians are building the Colossus. Fur is connected, everybody happy! Couldn't that have happend a turn ago!?!

1625 bc 6
Settler done. Barb worker moves into the jungle. American worker irrigates around Hippo.

1600 bc 7
Aztecs are also building on that Oracle thingy. Mostly workers working now, and waiting for stuff to finish ...

1575 bc 8
nothing exciting happends. i see some aztec workers are working north of Utica.

1550 bc 9
Found Sabratha. Leptis Magna temple done, building palace (for jump to great library). Utica builds another Hoplite. Moving it to Carthage Sci > 10% Litterature in 1t.

1525 bc A
Litterature done. Currency in 13t (sci 100% -2 gpt 185 in hold). Persia contacts me for a deal (horseback > Math in mid turn, no deal). My people want the forbidden palace. American worker irrigates some more land around hippo.

Trade:
[Per] Math > Horseback + 10gp
[Iro] Math > 50gp

** SAVE: flexo_QSC_C2e_bc1525.sav **

** SECOND REPORT COMPLETE **
 
I will limit this to only the more important details.

2550 BC - Aquire Iron Working for 23g.
2470 BC - Iron hooked up to roads.
2430 BC - Utica builds warrior starts barracks. Found Leptis Magna near furs on the Aztec side.
2350 BC - Xeres comes to the party, we end the turn up Mysticism and the wheel. Horses outside Utica.
2190 BC - Thevesre founded on fresh water toward Americans.

2190 BC Saved Game

1990 BC - Hippo founded on the coast.
1870 BC - Utica builds barrcks and starts swords.
1830 BC - Pick up writing for 16g

1790 BC Saved Game

1725 BC - Found Leptis Minor after Aztecs build in irritating spot.
1650 BC - Find that the CIV3PTW units floder is dieffent from the CIV3 units folder. Guess were I put the Hopies?
1525 BC - Our last city of the expandsionist phase is founded, Sabratha.

1525 BC Saved Game

At the end of the expansion phase for me it stands Aztecs and Persia with five cities, Iroquois with 4, America with only 1! and me with 7. I think the Persians and Iroquis will probably end with 6 each. there is maybe room for 2 more cities before Mapmaking. For now begin the conquest portion of our program with the Aztecs the first likely canidate as they have an abondance of spices and I now have three barracks on-line.
 
2590 BC (30): Reviewing my current postion I wonder if completing the granary before the next settler is the best option. I decide to leave it for now.

2550 bC (31): Foresty complete at Carthage, granary now only 24 away :). Moving warrior/settler pair toward the furs in the south. Warrior in the south moves to see that Washinton will soon have incence.

2510 BC (32): NOthing to speak of.

2470 BC (33): Continue toward the furs with the warrior/settler pair. Worker/slaves complete roads on their way toward the fur city. Decide to forgo the mine for now and focus on getting furs online as soon as possible.

2430 BC (34): Found Leptis Magna on the middle plains, furs will be online after my just started temple expands. Decide to whip the barracks in Utica. Want those vet spartans NOW ;).

2390 BC (35): MM Carthage to get granary in 8, 2 turns before growth to 3. Utica barracks is completed start on spartan hop.

2350 BC (36): Continue my trek south around the american capital.

2310 BC (37): Reduce research to 80%, writing due next turn.

2270 BC (38): Learn Writing start Literature. Due in 28 turns at 80% and +0 gpt. Trade abe Writing for Mysticism, Contact with Bizzy and 50 gold. Trade Bizzy Writing for contact with Greece and China. Trade Greece writing for contact with Persia, and the wheel. Trade Mao Writing for HBR, and 9 gold. Trade Monty writing straight up for Iron working. Persia has nothing and will get nothing. Form Embassy with the Aztecs for 30 gold. 4 new techs and 4 Contacts [dance].

2230 BC (39): Quick diplo check reveals that both America and Persia have yet to expand beyond their capitals. Decide that now may be the time to move on them both. Research to 90%, lit in 22 turns.


2190 BC (40): Survive a barb attack at Utica. Continue to move warrior south. Granary in 2 at Carthage grows in 3.

http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hotrod_QSC_C2e_2190BC.zip

2150 BC (41): Continue moving south, barb warrior is roading toward the next city site. LIT in 20 turns.

2110 BC (42): Move workers to work the horsey in the northern part of Lepis Magna. MM Carthage for max food and still get granary next turn.

2070 BC (43): Carthage builds granary, starts settler.

2030 BC (44): Some movement, nothing to speak of. Icrease lux to 10%, MM Carthage to get settler and growth the samve turn.

1990 BC (45): Settler and growth the same turn. Persia and America get there second cities. Horses are now online.

1950 BC (46): Barbs showed up next to my worker :(. Flee the area that was my next city site. will require cleanup crew first. Wake warrior in Utica and send West.

1910 BC (47): Moving the warrior caused Utica to revolt, up lux to 20%. :smoke: for sure.

1870 BC (48): My warrior is lost. 2 Jags take out the camp. I risk it but send the settler anyway. IF the aztecs attack I am in deep trouble now. Carthage starts another settler. Change Utica to archer wasting 2 shield but getting some units on the board.

1830 BC (49): Utica builds archer starts a warrior. Settler continues to move but a jag is in the way.

1790 BC (50): The aztecs are everywhere I am in trouble if he attacks. spot a barb camp in the south. Settler is in position for a city next turn.

http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hotrod_QSC_C2e_1790BC.zip

1750 BC (51): Found Theveste in the flood plain rich area NW of Utica start a warrior.

1725 BC (52): Disperse a barb camp in the south for 25 gold.

1700 BC (53): There are more aztecs everywhere :(. Another settler is ready next turn.

1675 BC (54): Utica builds a warrior starts another. Carthage a settler and starts another. Each will head east. Cut lux back to 10%.

1650 BC (55): Aztecs continue to take my spots, have to move my site 1 tile SW. Will be there next turn.

1625 BC (56): Theveste builds warrior starts barracks. Lit next turn at 60%. +3 gpt.

1600 BC (57): Learn Lit start on Math. Found Hippo East of Carthage start warrior. Give Monty LIt and 2 gpt for Math and Philosophy. Trade Mao math for 70 gold. Now researching Maps, due in 17 at 80 % and -1 gpt.

1575 BC (58): Some worker moves, sending warrior in the south home. Whip the temple in Leptis.

1550 BC (59): Utica builds Warrior starts Spartan Hopilite. Leptis builds temples starts warrior. Other misc. moves.

1525 BC (60): Settler pairs up with vet warrior for journey south of Carthage. Map Making due in 14 at 80% with -4 gpt. NO new trade posibilities.

http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hotrod_QSC_C2e_1525BC.zip
 
Fourth Set of 10 turns
2550 Warriors continue to explore, W1 heading south from the coast, basically following along the Iroquois lands, W2 moving north and west along the southern coast, W3 working his way back to Carthage from the Northeast mountains, and W4 also moving S/SW toward Carthage. Worker1 moves NE to start building a road from Utica toward a new city site near the northern fur. Slave1 moves NW of Utica to mine the grassland. Slave2 starts building a road on the irrigated floodplain near my next city site, NW of Carthage, and Slave3 moves NE to start on the next floodplain. Tax rate is 6.1.3, will get Mathematics in 20 turns, +5gpt.
2510 Work1 starts the road, Slave1 starts mining, S3 starts road.
2470 Carthage finishes 2nd Settler, starts next one, Settler2 heads NE, NW, SW along the road.
2430 Utica finishes warrior, starts another, moves toward Carthage. Settler continues SW. Work1 finishes road, moves NE, Slave 2 finishes road, moves S.
2390 Leptis Magna is founded (2W,2NW from Carthage), starts on Warrior. Warrior from Utica is moved into Carthage. Work1 moves NE to grass/bonus. Slave2 moves SW to horse, S3 finishes road and starts irrigating 2nd floodplain. I drop luxuries to 20%.
2350 W1 sees Iroquois settler, W2 finds more Incense along coast S of Iroquois. Work1 starts mine on grass bonus. Slave2 starts a road on the horse.
2310 Carthage finishes Settler#3, starts another. Settler moves NW/N along road to the fur N of Utica. W3 is now fortified in Carthage, so I can drop lux to 10%. Iroquois settle Grand River 13NW of Carthage.
2270 Slave1 finishes mine, starts road.
2230 Utica finishes another warrior, moves E. W3 moves toward Leptis, since some Aztecs are moving in the area, even though Monty is still polite. Work1 finishes mine, starts road, Slave2 finishes rd, start irrigation (Horses are connected!), Slave3 finishes irrigation, moves N. Bump lux back up to 20%. I checking on the Aztecs, I see they have Iron Working, as do Americans. I make a deal with Lincoln for 60g+3gpt, then sell it to Iroquois and Persia for 30g each. (I normally would not sell it to Persia, but I still haven’t found their territory, they must be on the other side of the Americans, so Lincoln can deal with their immortals). We have 3 sources nearby, one 2NE of Carthage, one 2NW,1N of Leptis Magna, and one in the NE mountains along the coast. I don’t plan on hooking them up yet, but I wanted to know where they are before I settle too many more cities. Aztecs have a settler/jag combo moving toward the NW iron, but then move away?
2190 Theveste is founded, 1SW of northern fur, starts on Temple immediately. W2 sees Iron and Horses S of Iroquois lands. Slave3 starts road N of Leptis. Aztecs now have Mysticism, want 70g, I restructure to 10g+3gpt, keeping them polite. They must have already traded it around.
* End of fourth ten turns: I still have my worker plus 3 slaves, and 6 warriors, and a total of 4 cities. Mathematics is 11 turns away. I have 220 gold, +11gpt. The Iroquois now have the lead with 132 pts, 99g, 2 cities, cautious. Aztecs are still polite, 10g, 2 cities, and 128 points. America is now annoyed, even with the gpt for IronWorking, 69g, 2 cities, and 127 pts. Persia is annoyed, has 1g but 3 cities, and 118 pts. My score is 131.

Fifth Set of 10 turns
2150 Carthage pumps out another settler, who heads W along the road. My warriors continue to explore, with two mapping out the borders of the Iroquois, and one checking N of the Aztecs. Worker1 moves NW to the Fur, Slave1 moves S.
2110 Settler continues SW into Leptis. Worker1 starts to cut the forest, S1 moves S onto the floodplain between Utica and Carthage.
2070 Leptis finishes a warrior to go with the settler, starts a temple. Utica finishes another warrior, moves N to Theveste. A warrior spots some Ivory along the coast S of the Iroquois. S1 starts to irrigate the floodplain, S2 finishes irrigating the horses, moves S, and S3 finishes the road, moves NE to the Grass Bonus. Settler starts S past the horses.
2030 S2 starts a road, S3 mines bonus. Check my neighbors, all but Aztecs have horseback riding, but I’m not ready to deal yet.
1990 Carthage builds another settler, who also moves W.
1950 Barbarian appears near Theveste, my warrior attacks, kills him at a cost of 1hp. Must be a camp nearby, so I send another warrior N from Carthage. War2, S of Iroquois, sees a peninsula at the western tip, and more land across a 1-tile straight!
1910 Hippo founded SW of southern furs, starts on Temple. Forest near Theveste cleared by worker1, start on road. S2 finishes irrigation, starts a road, S2 finishes road, moves S again.
1870 Leptis Minor founded 2N, 1NE of Leptis Magna (ironic, but appropriate!), next to gold. Starts on Temple. S2 starts on road. Iroquois have two workers available, I buy them for 20g+2gpt, send them to Forest NE of Leptis Magna.
1830 Carthage pumps out another settler, who heads NE toward the horses. Utica finishes another warrior, starts a barracks. Warrior from Theveste sees the barb camp in the NE mountains. Road is finished on the N. Fur, can’t irrigate so I move S to plains. Iroq. Slaves start cutting forest, to speed up temple in Leptis Magna. I drop luxuries to 10% with the added furs.
1790 Warrior takes out barb camp, gets 25g, but loses 2hp. Worker1 starts irrigating, S1 finishes road, then follows road to forest NE of Carthage. S3 finishes mine, starts road on bonus near Leptis Minor. Iroquois starts the oracle :-O In checking my rivals, they have discovered writing, which will have to wait until I complete Math next turn.
** End of fifth set of turns: I am in the lead, with 174 points, 6 cities, 299g+11gpt. I have a worker, 5 slaves, a settler, and 9 warriors. Iroquois in second, cautious, 4 cities, 13g, 155 pts. Aztecs still polite, have 4 cities, 59g, 149 points. Americans are annoyed, 3 cities, 8g, 141 pts, and Persia is annoyed, 0g, 3 cities, 139 points. All four have horseback and writing.

Sixth set of 10 turns
1750 Sabratha is founded 2E,2NE of Carthage, starts on Barracks. S1 starts to cut forest to W. S2 finishes road, moves S(next to furs). I finished Mathematics, so I start trading. I use a mixed order, I start with the civs with no gold, so I can get the techs, then take gold from the last two. I get Writing from the Persians, Horse Riding +1g from the Americans, 60g from the Aztecs, and settle for 15g from the Iroqouis (better me than someone else). Now it is time to start some real research, I go for Polytheism, both because it usually has trade value and because I want to try to get Monarchy quickly, before my golden age if I plan it right. At 60% research, I can get it in 15 turns, losing 1gpt, but my economy is growing and I have 397g, so it shouldn’t be a problem. I want to try and get it about the same time as the AI researches (hopefully) map reading and literature.
1725 Worker1 finishes irrigating, moves N to fur. S2 starts a road.
1700 Carthage finishes another settler, who moves W. I shift the warrior from Utica to escort. Worker1 starts to irrigate fur, S3 finishes road, moves ENE to flood plain N of Leptis Minor.
1675 Settler moves through Leptis. S3 starts to irrigate. S4/S5 finish cutting the forest, which is added to the temple in Leptis Major, and split up. S4 moves S to where our new settler is headed, S5 heads NE to Sabratha. The Aztecs start the Oracle, Persians start Colossus.
1650 Settler heads S/SW, Worker finishes irrigating the fur, moves S. S2 finishes road, moves to Grass Bonus NW of Hippo.
1625 Settler moves W into jungle. Worker starts a road in the plains, S2 starts a mine, S4 starts a road, and S5 starts to mine the bonus 2SW of Sabratha.
1600 Carthage finishes yet another settler, switches to a quick worker. Settler heads S toward jungle. Previous settler founds Rusicade on the coast 2NW,1N of Hippo, starts on Worker. It is time to crack the whip, I rush the Temple in Leptis Magna, and the barracks in Utica. I want to kick-start my culture before the Aztecs get warmed up, and I will need vet warriors before I can start upgrading.
1575 Leptis Magna completes Temple, starts on a worker, Utica completes Barracks, I mm onto a forest to get a warrior every 2 turns, but no growth. Worker1 finishes road, moves SW, S3 finishes irrigating N of Leptis Minor, starts a road, which should connect with Aztecs.
1550 Carthage finishes Worker2, who heads down to the jungle, switches back to settler. New settler continues S again. Worker1 moves SW, S along road. S4 finishes road, moves into forest w/fur.
1525 Utica completes a vet warrior, Theveste finishes a temple (no whip!), starts on a warrior (don’t remember why?). Settler founds Oea 3S of Carthage, in the jungle but on the coast, starts on a worker to clear some of the jungle. Oea will be my jump-off base for the upcoming invasion of America. SK1 starts building a road in the forest SE of Utica, which will soon be covered when Carthage expands its borders, and makes it quicker to travel N-S without crossing rivers. Worker2 starts a road S-SE of Carthage, to connect to Oea. S4 starts to cut the forest with the fur. I see a Barb NE of Sabratha, they must have reformed their camp. Maybe I can finally get a promotion?
*** End of sixth set of turns: I now have 232 points, 9 cities, 2 workers and 5 slaves, plus 10 warriors. I have 388 gold (losing 1gpt) and Polytheism will be done in 4 turns, at 80% (1.8.1). It looks like I am the only one to have completed any cultural buildings. Iroquois are cautious, 185 pts, 5 cities and 43g. Aztecs are polite, 176 pts, 5 cities, and 20g. They also have one spare Spice, which I should be able to trade for next turn, when my road is complete. America has 156 pts, annoyed, still 3 cities, and 32g. Persia has 151 pts, annoyed, 3 cities and 0 gold. After double-checking, none of the AI has either horses or iron hooked up, only the Aztecs and Persia (incense) have luxuries hooked up, although they all have at least one in their borders. Oh well, unfortunately for Lincoln, I may have to take his incense myself, before he figures out how to build a road. (Boy, I guess he could have used those 2 workers about now…._).Zipped Save Files (all 3)

The Known World as of 1500BC
(Did not play this turn, just forgot to take the screenshot in 1525)
 
Turns 31-60

[31] -2550: That barb heads for us, so we mms to get a warrior out in ONE turn :p
[32] -2510: Warrior done, we start temple. Warrior kills the barbarian.
Aztecs and Americans have the Wheel. Persia has iron working (boo!) We trade to him
burial and alphabet and 1gpt for the Working of Iron. We INSTANTLY get a message that
we've got iron connect to Carthage, cool! Must be that mined hill. Indeed, yes, 2 NE.
[33] -2470: Iro's get the Wheel. I'm glad I left them backwards, and can now trade
Iron Working to get that and 15g. No horses yet in our land. There is one NE of the
nearby Aztec city, and one on the coast east of our capital. That one sounds good.
[34] -2390: Carthage hits size 7. We hit 15spt! :) That's a merc per two turns.
[35] -2350: Upgrade our warr to sword.
[36] -2310: Erm... no one has started the Pyramids??? Or ANY wonder?? I could crank it
out in 27 turns, if no one on the other continent got it. With a hoplite only taking
two turns, lets make one or two of those first.
[38] -2230: Our first Spartan Hoplite is done. Wow he looks cool!!! Like superman with that
red cape! To the east we see coast and more iron.
[40] -2190: Almost forget to save. (My internal sense of turns is off by 1. Turn 4000BC
is '0' in my book, but '1' in this game :p )

[41] -2150: Writing done, we start literature in 40. Utica does a double whip for a temple.
No trade yet, I want 2 techs. Second Hoplite done, we start... the Pyramids?! *SAVE*
[42] -2110: Utica starts rax. There we go, Abe has HBR. We trade Writing for HBR+74g,
then HBR to Aztecs for 64g. Then Alphabet to Iro for Mysticism.
[44] -2030: First barb battle, our sword defends against one and wins. (Our near horses)
[45] -1990: Most powerful report: China, Greece, Germans (oh shoot), Aztecs, Persians,
Iro, Americans, us. :p
[46] -1950: First camp dispersed, 25g, off the coast near iron.
[48] -1870: Carthage expands, now at 17spt, Pyramids due in 19.
[49] -1830: Sure, as soon as my defender goes to hunt down a barb, AI sees it as
weakness. Abe demands 34g, and rather than risk the Pyramids, I give in for now.
[50] -1790: Iro start the Oracle. Barb camp dispersed, earning back the tribute cash.
IBT The Aztecs demand tribute too. Their time will come, but for now they get it. *SAVE*

[52] -1700: I sell writing to Xerces for 35g, lest he demand it :p Ditto Iro for 15g.
Persians start Colossus.
[54] -1650: Aztecs start the Oracle. The Americans settle in our SW backyard on the
lake. That makes TWO lake cities I plan to capture :p
[59] -1550: I stumble my sword next to the Aztec capital, guarded by a spear. :lol:
[60] -1525: First new tech in a while, Abe has Map Making. I wasn't kicked out of Aztec
territory?? Boy it's tempting to take a swing! It's just size 2 - perhaps the extra
defender just left with a settler pair? No... you're not Genghis Khan this game,
calm down Charis. We want our golden age in Monarchy!

I expect to be lower in the QSC at turn 60. My strat may become clearer in the next
set of turns, but I have something definite in mind.

Turn 40
Turn 50
Turn 60

Charis

PS @Hotrod - I like that summary of tech research choices, tnx! Pottery is definitely
a great tech to have early, but I assumed I would get in via trade fast enough. And in
fact my second thing built was granary. With an expansionist civ you make a good point,
to block out a cheap tech to find better ones.

@Borealis - I have never, ever, had an AI attack my settler, whether he is escorted
or not. I only escort for the sake of barbarians now. It's exceedingly rare they'll
attack an empty city of mine, but it does prompt them to demand tribute. I've had them
sneak attack early only twice in all the games I've played. One was actually gotm-15
with my OCC. I think I was 1hp from losing the game. So in a case like that we might have
seen half the group die out right away.

@flexo - I lean toward thinking a granary is almost universally a must-have in either your
first or second city. There are exceptions, but it's not the norm. One is very useful in
this game because you have room to expand, and will want many settlers, and because the
food supply is not overly great, while shields are plentiful at Carthage.
 
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