It's been mentioned that Civ 5 will make use of some functions of Direct X 11 for those people who have those kinds of cards. What I'm wondering is if there's anything that DirectX 10 has in common with 11. It would be nice if my DX 10 card will still provide some benefit to the game's graphics, without having to fully upgrade.
About DirectX 11
- Thread starter Willem
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fromeast2west
Warlord
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You'll definitely get a benefit from a DX10 card (vs. whatever integrated graphics are on your system).
The biggest boost from DX11 would theoretically come if they enabled some sort of GPGPU functions in the game which could speed up lag between turns.
I haven't seen anything that suggests they're using GPGPU features of DX11 cards, so the only difference you're likely to see are slightly better graphics.
The biggest boost from DX11 would theoretically come if they enabled some sort of GPGPU functions in the game which could speed up lag between turns.
I haven't seen anything that suggests they're using GPGPU features of DX11 cards, so the only difference you're likely to see are slightly better graphics.
Semmel
Large Sid Meiers Collider
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GPGPUs are not really good for ingame calculations because the operations you can do are very limited. I guess its something like: x parallel multiplications followed by add. So something like a += b*c. That operation is used in graphics and physics very very often so it speeds up things like water movement, particle movement. But as soon as you have something like an if-clause which requires the processor to decide to go one way or the other, the "essembly line" like calculation process is crushed and the GPU cant keep up with the CPU.
deanej
Deity
I think the post is about what possible benefits you might get with a DX10 card vs a DX9 card.
Exactly. Since the game is being made to use some DirectX 11 abilities, I was wondering if it were possible that some of them will carry over into DirectX 10. I have a DirectX 10 card, an 8800GT, and I doubt I'll be able to afford a DirectX 11 one when the game comes out. So I'm hoping I'll still see an improvement, not just with the card but also with using my Vista OS as opposed to XP. I have a dual boot system and up until now I've had ne real reason to use Vista, other than for the Media Center. It would be nice to get some extre benefits from the money I paid out for it.
deanej
Deity
I'm quite interested in this as well, especially since I doubt I'll have a DX11 card until civ6 comes out. And to think I though that, for once, it wouldn't be the video card holding back my computer.
SmokedSalmon
Chieftain
I have directx 11 now with civ 4.
Seems ok, I still get igfx problems sometimes.
Seems ok, I still get igfx problems sometimes.
By then it will probably be DirectX 12.
Video card technology has being advancing in leaps and bounds the last couple of years, it's a bit hard to keep up these days. When I bought my 8800GT about 2-3 years ago, it was pretty much top of the line and fairly new on the market. About 6 months later the 9000 series came out and there's now 2 generations after that. It shouldn't matter too much with Civ 5 though, it sounds like it will be backwards compatible. You just won't get all the bells and whistles graphically. I'm fairly certain that my 8800GT will run the game OK, it just won't look as pretty.
It's not using it though. Civ 4 is strictly a DirectX 9 game.
deanej
Deity
But I want all the bells and whistles! Civ4 didn't use advanced graphics when it came out, why should civ5? I had to put up with screwed-up leaderhead art (the video card on my desktop has minimal shader support) until very recently and I was hoping I wouldn't have issues like that with civ5. I specifically got a 512mb card in an attempt to make my laptop more future-proof (while still being reasonable cost). I don't play other games, so I don't think I'm being unreasonable here.
aMoralAtheist
Chieftain
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You are being unreasonable though. I hate to be that guy, but why should I have to have less bells and whistles because you want to feel like you have it maxed out. What you want is a 8800 to do what my ati 5850 does, and it simply won't. You probally will be able to play it, heck my laptop which has an intergrated vid card, intel mobile or some such
, and it plays CIV4 BTS decently, provided I don't have more than 9-10 civs in game. But I plan on playing civ5 on my desktop, a quad core, phenom 2 3.2 ghz with an ati 5850 and 4gb of ddr3 at 1600 MHZ. I should be able to have my game look prettier than yours, because my hardware is better.Moderator Action: Please do not use foul language
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
deanej
Deity
My laptop is only 3/4 of a year old though! DX11 cards are practically bleeding edge. Why should I have to buy a new computer just to have the game look good? I have an intel Cor2Duo 2.4GHz, 3 GB of RAM, and an ATI Mobility FireGL V5700. The Windows Experience Index for the system is a 5.5 (were it not for the RAM and hard disk, it would be a 5.9, and the video card gets a 6.3). Is this not as good a system as I think it is?
aMoralAtheist
Chieftain
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So what?
Think about what you are saying. You want the programmers to not make the game as good as possible so you can max everything. But thats foolish. Think of it this way man, if Overall quality, in a vacuum, is on a scale of 1-10. Your card hits 6 on the scale, My card hits 9. (these are just random generic numbers to illustrate a point.) The programmers make the game hit the 8 point on quality. I get all the bells and whistles and you get a 6 quality out of 8 possible. Now what you want is them to make it a 6 or even 5 quality, so you can max it. Its not that you are getting more, you are not, you are getting what your card can handle either way. I on the other hand get even less if you can max it out. Does that make sense?
And if you want "future proof" don't buy a 3 year old card and expect to be "future proof."
Oh and windows index score is a crap system. Use a stress test if you want a real ranking.
This problem could almost certainly be solved by having a better architecture. The one area of the game that can really be sped up with GPGPU (and ironically not requiring DX11) is pathfinding. Some good papers came out a few years ago detailing how to do this.
The beauty of 3D engines is that they are generally pretty scalable. Most of them have the ability to disable features to improve performance on older computers. I doubt Civ 5 will be an exception to this so you should have nothing to worry about.
deanej
Deity
I would have thought Lenovo would use current components in their laptops. I guess I should have verified that. That said, I know hardly anything about video cards so the only indication of how good a card is is the amount of video RAM. But still, DX11 is only half a year old! How can anyone with a current (but not bleeding edge) system be expected to have the graphics in anything but DX9 mode?
You're also the only person I've seen saying Windows Experience Index is bad. BtW, it runs from a 1 to 7.9 (5.9 in Vista).
aMoralAtheist
Chieftain
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Windows Exp puts out a score for each thing independently, and then your overall is simply the lowest score you got. There is no indication of performance with parts working together, which is a better indicator. Run some stress tests for better input. And video Ram is not the only thing to look at. Just try to do some research next time is all man
. Toms hardware is a great computer site to get input on questions. The forums are very friendly as well! And for example in the New BF Bad Company 2, it runs in DX10, which is probably what civ 5 will be ultimately, but you can run it in DX mode 9. IE XP supports that game, but XP doesn't support above DX 9. So even if it is DX 11 you will still be able to play, and it will still be very pretty, just not as pretty as my 5850, or anybody with a better card for that matter.deanej
Deity
I guess I'm just gonna have to learn what all the stats for a video card mean and how to judge how good something is, and to not trust that Lenovo would use current stuff for a ThinkPad. I didn't even know that the version of DirectX you could use was determined by anything other than what version the OS has installed until civ5 was announced!
I guess my experience will depend on how well the graphics go for those that don't have the best cards. Civ4's leaderhead graphics were terrible in this area - if you didn't have a decent shader version, they looked very bad.
I guess my experience will depend on how well the graphics go for those that don't have the best cards. Civ4's leaderhead graphics were terrible in this area - if you didn't have a decent shader version, they looked very bad.
It's highly unlikely that they'll make the game DX11-exclusive.
deanej
Deity
And I counter with: who wants to run the game in DX9 mode?
But, can we please get back to weather a DX10 card will offer a better experience than a DX9 card?
But, can we please get back to weather a DX10 card will offer a better experience than a DX9 card?
So let me get this straight, you're suffering from a case of number envy?
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