Any reason not to found cities?

beetle said:

Okay, so the science is kind of a wash. And late founded cities are not going to be contributing experience units for fighting. The OP is not talking about a CV, but what about the increased cost for social policies? I figure each late city means one less SP by the end of the game. Except for CV, this is not going to mean the difference between a win or a loss, but am I probably being too conservative about this? How much culture does a city need to be generating to offset the increased SP cost?

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culture cost is a harsher penalty. the mechanics are similar to the beaker cost, but the penalty is higher (i think 20% per city or something - this value changed a few times from vanilla to BNW) and a large chunk of your total culture is from sources that can't be duplicated in every city (wonders, culture from city states, culture from great works, guild specialists).

it's harder to make a similar "rule of thumb" for culture/social policy progress since some of the main culture contributors are not guaranteed (cultural CS allies, culture wonders). if the culture from your core cities isn't very impressive, it's obviously easier for new cities to get enough culture output to break even - if you focus on culture in your capital (and the first 2-3 extra cities) a lot, it's almost guaranteed taht additional cities will slow you down in this regard.

circumstances where this effect is reduced are combinations of liberty + large/huge map sizes (both factors reduce the % penalty per city - liberty on a huge map reduces the penalty to a point where it's almost negligible) and/or lots of terrain based culture (brazilwood camps, chateaux, pantheons with culture from terrain improvements, landmarks and similar effects)

BuzWeaverCiv said:

I'm still trying to get my first Science victory with King difficulty. I've wondered how many cities is optimal. In most games up to King I've always had at least 3, perhaps 4 if I see an aluminum resource. I've tried with two cities, but I don't seem to be any more successful than trying with 3. I've come close, but it seems that with the AI biased head start the closes I've come to wining is perhaps 53 turns.

I'm having a lot of fun, but sometimes I can't help but laugh when I see a Civ make the First Rocket booster while I'm still building factories. The game I'm currently playing I'm fairly close, but Gandhi is on his last part. This particular game I have 3 cities and I'm dependent on City States for Aluminum (also, no jungle tiles). I'm currently fighting Brazil and Shaka at the same time. I've played Arabia, Babylon, Maya and the most times with Korea and I'm still not able to pull a win off.

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I wouldn't think so much about whether to build 3, 4 or 5 cities - I would build them fast no matter how many, and get the NC as quickly as possible. For science, all cities need to be high quality. A bad 4th or 5th city will just slow things down since you'll have to wait extra for the NC or the Oxford Uni. Rush the tech stuff as much as you can and skimp on military until war is a real danger. I wouldn't build late extra cities unless in a really great location and you already have all your National wonders built.

Trade routes for money, city states for culture and food. Tradition + rationalism, maybe open commerce or exploration if you need the money. Then order or freedom for more great person birth rate. One of the key things is when to start bulbing the great scientists. On Emperor and Immortal, I have found it's usually good not to build more than 4-5 Academies max, and even that only if you can get the first two early. Then save up the later GSs until the very last techs which will secure you the victory quickly. Add one great engineer ready to build the Hubble space telescope once you've rushed that tech. Concentrate all the special tech buildings in the same city, preferrably with jungle and/or an adjacent mountain.

And I think population may be a little over-emphasized on most play guides. Even on deity you may succeed in SV with just 20-25 percent population of the pop leader.

I appreciate all the advice. This last game was another close one, but Germany just dominated everything and everyone. The start was great. All my cities (3 total) had at least two salt, sadly no jungle tiles.

Yep, I keep my armies very small. In this particular game I was attacked early, but remained friendly with everyone till the end. I was going to try and push for Berlin, but I didn't have any kind of an army. Luckily, I was able to talk Germany into attacking a few people, but no other Civ could stand up to their army, much less make a push on Berlin.

With the advice you guys outlined I'll try again. On a side note I don't have any issues winning via Science or Dip using the Communitas Mod, I'm assuming there have been some adjustments to Bias with the Civs? Also, I have gotten a Dip victory on King Vanilla, but science has eluded me. I suppose I could try for a Cultural victory at some point, but that takes nearly as long as Science.