Expansion pack announced - Civilization V: Gods & Kings

I dunno... I'm kind of underwhelmed. Is it just me?

Espionage was never well received in Civ4 afaik. And "purchasing" a religion just sounds funny. And the new civilizations are not that exciting, almost after thoughts.

Espionage wasn't good in Civ4 so it can't be done well in Civ 5?

The new civs are not exciting? We know barely anything about any of them.

The Maya, Dutch, Byzantine, and Celts were all released in the Civ4 expansions (after-thoughts?) as well. Were you not excited then either?
 
There's a history nerd anti-Zulu sentiment (which I share). I can't imagine it is widespread. The more important question is whether the Zulu will have a fun play style. If they do, they'll probably be in ;)

So how come the classic African leaders are getting the shaft but everyone else stays in the game?

Zulu and the Impi's need to be there.

So Carthage and Zulu with Egypt and Songhai would cover Africa.

Europe will be missing Portugal, but so be it. A CS will do, although with the Age of Exploration scenario, it will feel lacking without a colonial super power. Maybe a DLC.

Middle East is covered, don't add Sumeria.

Asia has been covered, we have 6 solid Asians. We could use another Pacific Islander. So Majapahit or Indonesians.

That's seven new civs with the other confirmed ones included.

That gives you two more slots. Do you go Native American? Probably... give me a great plains civilization. Sioux or someone like that. That gives you 8.

Now you can look at Europe and Africa. Got to lean toward Europe. Something Eastern European.
 
So how come the classic African leaders are getting the shaft but everyone else stays in the game?

Portugal aren't in the game.

I recommended the Moors and Kongo as alternatives. The Zulu, of Shaka fame, had very little lasting impact or achievement. It was essentially an Empire that depended on personality - in the same category as Sargon, Attila, or Thebes under Epaminondas and Pelopidas. Granted, if the Huns are in, it's the same category.
 
So Taoist Germany bothers you, but Rome being destroyed by their neighbors, the Inca, doesn't? Civ is alternative history; I can't imagine why religion getting blended into the mix would bother you so much.

And espionage is cheating. But it has been important throughout the history of civilization as a great leveler. Hell, the entire Cold War was due to successful Russian espionage. Without it, the U.S. would've been a run-away Civ, but instead, we had a hell of a game.

The only thing I don't understand, why my post bother you. My opinion and statment and explanation (although in minority or absolutely lonely) is very clear.

Not everything that had impact to the real history must be implemented into strategy game to made that game better.

I will just use the oportunity to repeat the questions fot developers or someone who might be more verse in gaming (programming) than me: Is there any chance to buy as dlc civilizations from expansion to play with them in vanilla game (even with changed UA), or atleast to move them (copy files) so they would be anabled to play in GOTY from Gods+ KIngs f.e.? Same for eventual future civs dlc-s. Thank you.
 
Having read the press release and associated comments, I think it is clear what is meant by "Gods" in the expansion pack name. Not so sure about the "Kings" part. Any ideas? Is it simply a sloppy way of referring to the fact that new Civs are being introduced? (Mind you, I'm looking forward to the expansion pack, I'm just a bit puzzled about the name).

Maybe "of Gods, Spies, and minor unit tweaks" didn't have quite the same ring? LOL
 
Okay since no one else is gonna say it.

No one has a problem with cutting out features and then selling them as an expansion really?? Religion and espionage 2 features that were in the last version of Civ prior to Civ V.. and they cut them out redo them and sell them as an expansion again??? wtf maybe next time they can cut out multiplayer and sell that as an expansion again.

Then to add insult to injury they are going to fix diplomacy and AI combat.. with the 30$ expansion.. Pay for PATCH wtf....

and the majority of you all lap this up.. like a crack head accepting that the crack dealer is gonna charge 2x for a rock.

Am I the only one that sees exploitation going on? Maybe for civ VI they can cut out buildings in cities and repackage that as an expansion.
They aren't even expanding on the series... they are claiming the stuff they left out and fixes to broken systems are "new gameplay elements" and charging you for it.
 
Okay since no one else is gonna say it.

No one has a problem with cutting out features and then selling them as an expansion really?? Religion and espionage 2 features that were in the last version of Civ prior to Civ V.. and they cut them out redo them and sell them as an expansion again??? wtf maybe next time they can cut out multiplayer and sell that as an expansion again.

Just like how espionage was in Civ3, then not in Civ4 until an expansion? Did you freak out and make terrible comparisons to drug deals then also?
 
Just like how espionage was in Civ3, then not in Civ4 until an expansion? Did you freak out and make terrible comparisons to drug deals then also?

Sure did.. but explain to me why its acceptable to you that they cut out features, then resell them to you. That would surely do more for this conversation than hyperbole on both sides. Your welcome to disagree with me... but I would appreciate your logic in accepting that they cut features just to repackage them and sell them to you again.

Matter of fact though I'm still pissed the Civ IV BTS crashes with a GD memory error.. they claimed it was my PC didn't have enough memory for the game.. I got over 6GB now and I still hit the error.

whats the problem - if you dont want to buy anything you should not

Oh yes well sell you half a broken game.. then once you have invested money into it.. we release the rest. Why would you want a game that wasn't broken? Well of course you want a game thats not broken.. thats why we're charging you 30$ to fix it. Is it so crazy to expect feature that was in the last of the series to be in this one, and for this one to be functional with out an expansion. Should you really have to buy and expansion for "Your trying to win in the same way as me so I don't like you" to be a non issue in a 4x game.(the fourth wall does not only apply to theatre.)

I should have realised this would be the reason I've been locked out of Civfanatics for more than 24 hours!
Naw I've been running into it all night.. given the lack of responses here in general I suppose it could be high traffic.. but I doubt it. (Or I grossly overestimate the capacity of the Civfanatics servers.. which is very probable)
 
The only thing I don't understand, why my post bother you. My opinion and statment and explanation (although in minority or absolutely lonely) is very clear.

Not everything that had impact to the real history must be implemented into strategy game to made that game better.

I will just use the oportunity to repeat the questions fot developers or someone who might be more verse in gaming (programming) than me: Is there any chance to buy as dlc civilizations from expansion to play with them in vanilla game (even with changed UA), or atleast to move them (copy files) so they would be anabled to play in GOTY from Gods+ KIngs f.e.? Same for eventual future civs dlc-s. Thank you.

I'm not bothered, man.

And yes, Civ must model EVERYTHING! BUHAHAHAHA!!! Okay, but seriously, espionage could be an important way to level the playing field, but admittedly, I've never seen it implemented well in any 4X game.

Finally, I can't pretend to be an expert, but I think any new civs will feature UAs, UBs, and UUs directly tied directly to the new game dynamics. So, if you want the greater repertoire of civilizations, you'll have to put up with new the stuff.
 
If religion was exactly like it was in Civ4, I would complain. However, it seems to be something that's crafted closer to Civ5's playstyle. That would have taken far more time to implement when they had better things to do. The game needed noticeable polishing as it was. To say that a feature was merely withheld is misunderstanding or misremembering the development and release of Civ5.

Same with espionage, which poorly executed for Civ4 as well, unfortunately.
 
Just like how espionage was in Civ3, then not in Civ4 until an expansion? Did you freak out and make terrible comparisons to drug deals then also?

It's not a terrible comparison. Look at us: we are addicts. I'm jonesing for a fix right now and it's months away. I'm already plotting how I'm going to get a copy of Windows to install on my Mac so I can play the PC version and won't have to wait for the Mac port which took eons for BtS).
 
Having read the press release and associated comments, I think it is clear what is meant by "Gods" in the expansion pack name. Not so sure about the "Kings" part. Any ideas? Is it simply a sloppy way of referring to the fact that new Civs are being introduced? (Mind you, I'm looking forward to the expansion pack, I'm just a bit puzzled about the name).

Maybe "of Gods, Spies, and minor unit tweaks" didn't have quite the same ring? LOL

I'm guessing it was because "Gods and Kings" sounds really cool. That's my thought.
 
If religion was exactly like it was in Civ4, I would complain. However, it seems to be something that's crafted closer to Civ5's playstyle. That would have taken far more time to implement when they had better things to do. The game needed noticeable polishing as it was. To say that a feature was merely withheld is misunderstanding or misremembering the development and release of Civ5.

Same with espionage, which poorly executed for Civ4 as well, unfortunately.

So its acceptable for you for game devs to cut features and redo them for future release in an expansion? Personally I feel these features should be redone for the new version PRIOR to vanilla release. and that an expansion on a sequel should add NEW gameplay dynamics.. not just redo old ones. Now of course thats my opinion.. and your welcome to disagree (which apparently you do). What I don't get is why its acceptable to you that they do this, at that point aren't they simply repackaging the same thing over and over.. ala Madden. Sure they add one or 2 new mechanics but your basically paying over and over for the same game with tweaks to the core.

Personally I think when a sequel comes out it should contain the dynamics of the last of the previous game.. and expansions should ADD to it.. Not resell me the same dynamics tweaked.

But worse.. is that they are finally fixing Diplomacy and Combat AI... and charging for it. Those should be in a patch. but although sure they could include some of the combat AI(although not all given the huge change in unit HP). in a patch.. the new diplomacy is based on religion.. which means you will not see it in patch form. So pay us 30$ to fix our broken system. Sure we broke it by abandoning the lessons learned through the previous games in the series but you need to pay us or you'll be stuck with our mistakes. Seriously.. ignoring the fact that they are repackaging and YES slightly modifying old systems. The fact that they are charging to fix diplomacy and AI.. which should be a patch.. but cannot due to their decisions on how they would re-release the same features again as an expansion is far more damning in my mind.

Sure they will provide minor patches to vanilla.. but since the major fixes are reliant on re-packaged systems you won't see them unless you give them the 30$ to fix your game. Buy the expansion or deal with flawed systems. Again though.. if you don't see an issue with this.. fine. But personally I do.
 
It's not a terrible comparison. Look at us: we are addicts. I'm jonesing for a fix right now and it's months away. I'm already plotting how I'm going to get a copy of Windows to install on my Mac so I can play the PC version and won't have to wait for the Mac port which took eons for BtS).

I think the difference is that heroin is "cut." Meaning they have the full amount, but they dilute it (although the full amount will kill you, but I digress). This is closer to brewing beer. You might want the beer to one of those high abv beers in the 9% range, but you decide you don't want to wait for that, so you stop when it is only at 4.5% and you end up drinking Budweiser.

So its acceptable for you for game devs to cut features and redo them for future release in an expansion? Personally I feel these features should be redone for the new version PRIOR to vanilla release. and that an expansion on a sequel should add NEW gameplay dynamics.. not just redo old ones. Now of course thats my opinion.. and your welcome to disagree (which apparently you do). What I don't get is why its acceptable to you that they do this, at that point aren't they simply repackaging the same thing over and over.. ala Madden. Sure they add one or 2 new mechanics but your basically paying over and over for the same game with tweaks to the core.

It is a new mechanic, it just has the same name as a Civ4 mechanic. The very fact that Civ4's feature wouldn't work in Civ5 means that it's not the same thing. This is very different from a Madden game, where the core gameplay remains mostly the same aside from the new feature and, often, there will be no new feature, just updated rosters and graphics. It's an entirely different system.

I think your criticism demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding about the game development process and computer programming. I also want to point out that more is not always better. A feature has to be carefully added to avoid just creating noise with no benefit. Remember Soren's 1/3 remove, 1/3 new, 1/3 the same formula? While it doesn't require mathematical rigor, it does help demonstrate the concern to a degree.
 
Naw I've been running into it all night.. given the lack of responses here in general I suppose it could be high traffic.. but I doubt it. (Or I grossly overestimate the capacity of the Civfanatics servers.. which is very probable)

It's definitely site traffic. The lockout message even says "the servers are too busy at the moment, try again later". It often happens around the time of big news, naturally when site traffic will be at its highest.
 
I think the difference is that heroin is "cut." Meaning they have the full amount, but they dilute it (although the full amount will kill you, but I digress). This is closer to brewing beer. You might want the beer to one of those high abv beers in the 9% range, but you decide you don't want to wait for that, so you stop when it is only at 4.5% and you end up drinking Budweiser.



It is a new mechanic, it just has the same name as a Civ4 mechanic. The very fact that Civ4's feature wouldn't work in Civ5 means that it's not the same thing. This is very different from a Madden game, where the core gameplay remains mostly the same aside from the new feature and, often, there will be no new feature, just updated rosters and graphics. It's an entirely different system.

I think your criticism demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding about the game development process and computer programming. I also want to point out that more is not always better. A feature has to be carefully added to avoid just creating noise with no benefit. Remember Soren's 1/3 remove, 1/3 new, 1/3 the same formula? While it doesn't require mathematical rigor, it does help demonstrate the concern to a degree.
and the rest? granted.. I probably added the addition commentary after or during you adding this post. But before I respond I would prefer you respond to my whole post.
Its not that I misunderstand game development.. I misunderstand everyones acceptence of large companies such as 2k to throw away everything they have built and learned in the production of a series and Rebuild it and resell it to consumers. A large chunk of civ IV xml and I'm sure coding was used in civ V. So any discussion of game development is Moot. I would be happy to quiz Shafer on how much of Civ IV was used.


It's definitely site traffic. The lockout message even says "the servers are too busy at the moment, try again later". It often happens around the time of big news, naturally when site traffic will be at its highest.
I've gotten that before without good reason So i Ignore it.. but that certainly doesn't make your statement any less valid.
 
Oh yes well sell you half a broken game..

if you thought its halfbroken why have you bought it? its your personal problem not theirs. you spontaneously bought the game, it turned out you didnt like what you get, and now you come in and whane about it. blame yourself and your shopping inability not firaxis.
 
if you thought its halfbroken why have you bought it? its your personal problem not theirs. you spontaneously bought the game, it turned out you didnt like what you get, and now you come in and whane about it. blame yourself and your shopping inability not firaxis.

So wait.. if you buy a sequel and its nothing like the previous version its your fault? The name Civilizations means nothing.. they should just make a First person shooter and name it civilizations.. and those who buy it are dumb its their own fault for their shopping inabililty. Wait why did they name it civilizations again? Oh ya to attract people like me to BUY IT. and its my fault.. wtf is wrong with you.

So let me get it straight.. the name.. the franchise mean nothing.. you shouldn't expect gamename I to be anything like gamename II.. you should research it and if you buy it, and its nothing like the series its your own fault, not the company who CHOSE the name.. to attract fans of the series fault? So companies are infallible? They can do no wrong? So why even name it Civilizations.. since apparently the name means nothing.

It means something.. it means fans of the series would purchase it.. so you suggest that the company purposely misled fans?
 
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