SGOTM 13 - Gypsy Kings

OK I basically agree with further feedback.

Short use of PS+slavery.

Will spreadsheet Nottingham and Canterbury before play to see what should be done.

Will also spreadsheet Hastings growth, but max growth pre-GAge and max hammers tiles during GAge (unless a growth is close) sounds like it will be best for my turn set. For next set, we'll look at how far to grow it.

I think other cities are pretty much all working all the hammers tiles already.

Granary makes the most sense in Hittite - we have Canterbury nearby for cash buys, and I expect Hastings to saturate the local demand for treb production. We'll want more cash buys of trebs on the west of the empire. We'll have to chance to conquer the contested tiles by taking Cathy's city north of it soon enough, so just one artist is probably fine.

I'll just blindly follow bc's three-GMerchants plan. We can flex down a merchant in CC to ensure the second one comes from GH if necessary.
 
so rethinking the Great Merchant from GH

The Great Merchant gives about 2000 gold 30 turns from now, but during slavery and police state...

New plan GH
grow to 10 pop (takes 3 turns, could run merchants to help with Nationalism after that)
put 12 hammers in a treb (3 turns)
switch back to galleon (3 turns)
on switch to nationalism, police state, slavery (switch to treb 3 pop whip & draft down to 6 pop)
next turn draft again finish Galleon with OF (down to 5 pop)
next turn switch to another Treb (still at 5 pop? probably not grows to 6 again soon)
next turn 2 pop whip Treb (can do this with OF from prior builds) (down to 4 pop)
Regrow slowly working seafood and goldmine

So instead of a Great Merchant 30 turns from now we could get 2 treb, a galleon(accelerated), 2 muskets and be in a position to draft GH again in 10? turns again. (if it isn't suffering too much unhappiness --slider can help with that though)

So the ~666 hammers of stuff we could buy with the ~2000 gold from the Great Merchant 30 turns from now is converted into the use of 2 musketeers, 2 trebs for 20+ turns and a few extra turns of a galleon
And another musketeer 10 turns after that.

We also lose about 15 wealth a turn too but I still think this is better than trying for the GM here.

Rethinking switching back to pacifism
Also I was thinking about pacifism. Pacifism is going to get expensive quickly. I think we might want to switch to theocracy and christianity and stay. This delays the possible great merchant in CC by only about 4 turns. And basically gives up on the 2nd GM from CC. (pushes the great person back to ~T272 if we cared to try for it). Under this plan we would draft CC starting T257 I believe after the 1st GM is born.

Is delaying the great person in CC worth the extra 2 xp on units built/bought in England and extra 1 xp from all the musketeers we draft there? I think long term Theocracy might save us money too since we are going to be paying a lot for our new instant army. The cost difference between pacifism and theocracy right now is 9 gold (we are paying double maintenance for 5 units right now and theocracy costs 14 more gold to run than pacifism). The break even point for cost is 9 more units or less (since as our pop decreases we get fewer free units).

So in 11 tuns we will likely have at least 25 more units and ever increasing by at least 4? per turn. Under pacifism that is 16 more gold per turn than theocracy would be. From the point we plan to switch back to pacifism (roughly 11 turns from now T244) to the end of the game roughly 29 after that theocracy would save us

16 gold saved the first turn
20 gold saved the next... etc.
roughly 1746 gold saved by Theocracy vs. Pacifism over the course of the rest of the game. (I did an integral to calculate this, applied calculus :) ) (doesn't include the increase in inflation rate either..., so the savings is a bit higher)

That seems worth delaying the Great Merchant 4 turns and and giving up on a 2nd great person from CC. Not to mention the xp benefits...
 
I just caught up on the latest input. Thanks for the US suggestion aj! I think it makes a lot of sense to buy units now and at the front later.

Just to reiterate: Forget about tech! Build Units! Finish the game!
I agree.

Canterbury...snip.....I would whip a barracks here too if possible. Perhaps 2 pop whip barracks with max OF into a Lighthouse. Helps out units that are bought with gold here.
This makes more sense than a 1 pop LH whip I think. I also agree that a barracks with the settled GG here makes it a great city to buy units from.

We can buy this galleon with the switch to US. REDEMPTION!!! (now you know why I supported aj's suggestion to switch to Universal suffrage ) (ummm, of course we could buy the galleon anywhere bcool, shhhhh! let me have my moment)
:lol::lol::lol:

York gives up mine and cows after workboat finishes, starts galleon treb (maybe 2-whipped) Edit: York can't build warships, despite being able to build workboats, lighthouse and harbour. Go figure!
That is very strange.:confused:

SL granary then Galleon (work iron next turn ASAP, chopping forest into granary), workboat coming form York for its fish. May 2-whip galleon.
Why not 2 pop whip the Granary the turn we dip into slavery, could be the same turn the forest is chopped. The city will regrow very quickly with the 3 seafoods and be ready to be draftable soon enough. It can cash buy the Galleons as needed.

I like the PPP in general and say go for it!
 
So the ~666 hammers of stuff we could buy with the ~2000 gold from the Great Merchant 30 turns from now is converted into the use of 2 musketeers, 2 trebs for 20+ turns and a few extra turns of a galleon
And another musketeer 10 turns after that.
I agree with this.
Also I was thinking about pacifism. Pacifism is going to get expensive quickly. I think we might want to switch to theocracy and christianity and stay. .
I agree with this also.

This makes a trade for Theology a higher priority. Is Cathy willing to trade it already? Are we likely to pick it up during our Golden Age to get the free Civic Switch?

Even Paganism (no religion civic) I think is a better option than Pacifism at this stage simply to save :gold:.
 
This makes a trade for Theology a higher priority. Is Cathy willing to trade it already? Are we likely to pick it up during our Golden Age to get the free Civic Switch?

Cathy won't trade it to us because we are her worst enemy. That is unlikely to change. We can pick it from Willem but might have to trade Civil Service to him to get it. (other choices gunpowder or astronomy both bad I would assume)

Conceivably we could steal theology from Willem but we don't have a spy in place... we would ideally want Theology and the ability to switch to Theocracy in 7 turns, I think trading for it from Willem is probably our only choice. There is some chance Izzy, Joao, or Ragnar research it and we could trade it from one of them.
 
OK I've spreadsheeted a few things and the poly-whip plans in a few places work. Hastings should grow to max size 11, and this happens just as the GAge ends - working max hammers during it. I'm just putting out some reminder notes and will get playing. Will be on Gmail chat on my laptop as I play
 
Progress report.

Rag got a LB in Nidaros T237 with our DOW planned for T239. So I've reworked the plan to land four muskets, 2 trebs and 3 fat swords on the hill across the river from nidaros T241, with 3 more stuff following next turn. Hopefully we catch his navy in the harbour and he dies on our blockade of frigate + 3 galleons, or when we catch the city. Or he's stranded uselessly in the lake :)

Cathy indeed built the Hindu AP in Moscow. We have 2 votes from BCM, and voted for her for the plusmod start T237. So this will make keeping Moscow inconvenient, and will probably fix the turn we wish to DOW. Hope someone knows the rules.

WvO GEng-ed Notre Dame in Amsterdam.

Spoiler :
Here is your Session Turn Log from 880 AD to 920 AD:

Turn 233, 880 AD: Logging Game to File: Napoleon.txt
Turn 233, 880 AD: Logging Game to File: Napoleon.txt
Turn 233, 880 AD: You have constructed a Barracks in Spicy Rice. Work has now begun on a Longbowman.
Turn 233, 880 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in York. Work has now begun on a Trebuchet.
Turn 233, 880 AD: Catherine has completed The Kashi Vishwanath!
Turn 233, 880 AD: Willem van Oranje adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 233, 880 AD: Willem van Oranje adopts Slavery!

Turn 234, 890 AD: Logging Game to File: Napoleon.txt
Turn 234, 890 AD: You have trained a Galleon in Fish Hills. Work has now begun on a Wealth.

Turn 235, 900 AD: Joao II has 30 gold available for trade.
Turn 235, 900 AD: Joao II has 1 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 235, 900 AD: Catherine has 180 gold available for trade.
Turn 235, 900 AD: Joao II has 30 gold available for trade.
Turn 235, 900 AD: Joao II has 1 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 235, 900 AD: Ragnar has 2 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 235, 900 AD: You are the worst enemy of Catherine.
Turn 235, 900 AD: Catherine is the worst enemy of Isabella.
Turn 235, 900 AD: Willem van Oranje is the worst enemy of Ragnar.
Turn 235, 900 AD: Ragnar is the worst enemy of Willem van Oranje.
Turn 235, 900 AD: Willem van Oranje will trade Theology
Turn 235, 900 AD: Joao II will trade Horse
Turn 235, 900 AD: Golden Hills will grow to size 10 on the next turn.
Turn 235, 900 AD: London will grow to size 15 on the next turn.
Turn 235, 900 AD: Canterbury will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 235, 900 AD: BC's mistake will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
Turn 235, 900 AD: Logging Game to File: Napoleon.txt
Turn 235, 900 AD: wvo has a pile of hindu missionaries... idiot
Turn 235, 900 AD: Deal Canceled: Crab to Joao II for Gold Per Turn (1)
Turn 235, 900 AD: You have trained a Longbowman in Hastings. Work has now begun on a Trebuchet.
Turn 235, 900 AD: Catherine has founded Smolensk in a distant land.
Turn 235, 900 AD: Christianity has spread in Lagos.
Turn 235, 900 AD: Chuang-Tzu (Great Prophet) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 236, 910 AD: Golden Hills has grown to size 10.
Turn 236, 910 AD: London has grown to size 15.
Turn 236, 910 AD: Hastings has become happy.
Turn 236, 910 AD: Canterbury has grown to size 4.
Turn 236, 910 AD: BC's mistake has grown to size 2.
Turn 236, 910 AD: Catherine has 220 gold available for trade.
Turn 236, 910 AD: Willem van Oranje has 40 gold available for trade.
Turn 236, 910 AD: Catherine has 1 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 236, 910 AD: Willem van Oranje will trade Copper
Turn 236, 910 AD: Leaders of Hinduism have a vision of uniting all Hindu faithful under the The Apostolic Palace.
Turn 236, 910 AD: Catherine has completed The Apostolic Palace!
Turn 236, 910 AD: Alexandre Gustave Eiffel (Great Engineer) has been born in Amsterdam (Willem van Oranje)!

Turn 237, 920 AD: A French Spy 1 (Marbled Clam) has been stumbled upon while operating near the Russian city of Novgorod!
Turn 237, 920 AD: AP leader election start T237, voted for C
Turn 237, 920 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for Silver Lode.
 
OK done. http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm13/Gypsy_Kings_SG013_AD0970_01.CivBeyondSwordSave The heavy lifting on Ragnar is over, he should be a breeze from here. He has a bunch of horse archers, a few cats, a longbow per city and a smattering of axes and swords. Big deal.

I uploaded end of turn T242 in case someone can think of a reason to rush trading guilds to Cathy for theol+170. I think there's no risk of trading given she's only got Nat and he's only got Music (which she's half done) and Guilds, and Paper (in 2 turns).

We took Nidaros for loss of ... drumroll... a musket. The navy is at the bottom of the harbour and looking mighty nice there too. Lots of good coral growing on the wrecks. We're set up to move on Uppsala ASAP. We can see all of his cities except the one he stole from Izzy, who lives to his SW, maybe on the same land mass.

Some spies are in train to build and head to Moscow. Sadly the first one got busted :mad:

Drafting going nicely. Various whipping working fine too. Galleons, muskets and trebs are coming thick and fast for an opening strike on Cathy. Half the navy is upgraded, along with two of our shiny CR3 swords.

We're going to have to hit Cathy hard and fast, lest defying the AP annoy us, so we probably want to think about landing units on WvO island in the next turn set to prepare for that. Razing the AP is an option, but it means razing the GLH and Parthenon too.

Check out the power graph spike!

Spoiler :
Here is your Session Turn Log from 920 AD to 970 AD:

Turn 237, 920 AD: AP leader election start T237, voted for C
Turn 237, 920 AD: Rosalind Franklin (Great Scientist) has been born in Clam Chowder (Napoleon)!
Turn 237, 920 AD: Willem van Oranje has completed Notre Dame!
Turn 237, 920 AD: Isabella adopts Vassalage!
Turn 237, 920 AD: The Apostolic Palace voting members have announced their decision: Apostolic Palace Election (Winner Proposes Apostolic Palace Resolutions) (Requires 74 of 187 Total Votes)

Turn 238, 930 AD: Logging Game to File: Napoleon.txt
Turn 238, 930 AD: You have discovered Nationalism!
Turn 238, 930 AD: Islam has been founded in Utrecht!

Turn 239, 940 AD: Napoleon's Golden Age has begun!!!
Turn 239, 940 AD: Napoleon adopts Police State!
Turn 239, 940 AD: Napoleon adopts Nationhood!
Turn 239, 940 AD: Napoleon adopts Slavery!
Turn 239, 940 AD: You have trained a Galleon in Golden Hills. Work has now begun on a Longbowman.
Turn 239, 940 AD: The borders of London have expanded!
Turn 239, 940 AD: You have trained a Galleon in Nottingham. Work has now begun on a Barracks.
Turn 239, 940 AD: Willem van Oranje has completed Mausoleum of Maussollos!

Turn 240, 950 AD: Clam Chowder can hurry Spy for 1? with 28? overflow and +1? for 36 turns.
Turn 240, 950 AD: Fish Hills can hurry Trebuchet for 2? with 24? overflow and +1? for 52 turns.
Turn 240, 950 AD: Stone Mountain can hurry Trebuchet for 2? with 32? overflow and +1? for 15 turns.
Turn 240, 950 AD: Paired Clams can hurry Trebuchet for 2? with 56? overflow and +1? for 34 turns.
Turn 240, 950 AD: Marbled Clam can hurry Trebuchet for 1? with 46? overflow and +1? for 15 turns.
Turn 240, 950 AD: Bronzed Fish can hurry Trebuchet for 1? with 39? overflow and +1? for 47 turns.
Turn 240, 950 AD: Golden Hills can hurry Longbowman for 2? with 34? overflow and +1? for 29 turns.
Turn 240, 950 AD: London has become healthy.
Turn 240, 950 AD: London can hurry Trebuchet for 2? with 56? overflow and +1? for 16 turns.
Turn 240, 950 AD: Nottingham can hurry Barracks for 1? with 27? overflow and +1? for 29 turns.
Turn 240, 950 AD: York has grown to size 12.
Turn 240, 950 AD: York has become unhappy.
Turn 240, 950 AD: York can hurry Trebuchet for 2? with 38? overflow and +1? for 15 turns.
Turn 240, 950 AD: BC's mistake can hurry Lighthouse for 1? with 4? overflow and +1? for 15 turns.
Turn 240, 950 AD: Joao II has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 240, 950 AD: Isabella has 1 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 240, 950 AD: Joao II is the worst enemy of Catherine.
Turn 240, 950 AD: Catherine will trade Theology
Turn 240, 950 AD: Golden Hills will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 240, 950 AD: Spicy Rice will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 240, 950 AD: London will grow to size 15 on the next turn.
Turn 240, 950 AD: Logging Game to File: Napoleon.txt
Turn 240, 950 AD: You have trained a Trebuchet in Golden Hills. Work has now begun on a Settler.
Turn 240, 950 AD: You have constructed a Lighthouse in BC's mistake. Work has now begun on a Galleon.

Turn 241, 960 AD: Furry Crabs can hurry Frigate for 2? with 16? overflow and +1? for 15 turns.
Turn 241, 960 AD: Golden Hills has become unhappy.
Turn 241, 960 AD: Spicy Rice has grown to size 6.
Turn 241, 960 AD: Spicy Rice can hurry Trebuchet for 2? with 56? overflow and +1? for 28 turns.
Turn 241, 960 AD: Nottingham can hurry Galleon for 2? with 29? overflow and +1? for 28 turns.
Turn 241, 960 AD: York has become happy.
Turn 241, 960 AD: York can hurry Barracks for 2? with 56? overflow and +1? for 15 turns.
Turn 241, 960 AD: Hastings can hurry Trebuchet for 1? with 53? overflow, 22? added to the treasury, and +1? for 15 turns.
Turn 241, 960 AD: Silver Lode can hurry Galleon for 1? with 47? overflow and +1? for 28 turns.
Turn 241, 960 AD: Canterbury can hurry Lighthouse for 1? with 45? overflow, 2? added to the treasury, and +1? for 28 turns.
Turn 241, 960 AD: Willem van Oranje won't trade Copper
Turn 241, 960 AD: Deal Canceled: Stone to Ragnar for Wheat, Gold Per Turn (3)
Turn 241, 960 AD: Deal Canceled: Open Borders to Ragnar for Open Borders
Turn 241, 960 AD: You have declared war on Ragnar!
Turn 241, 960 AD: Ragnar refuses to talk.
Turn 241, 960 AD: Your Salaminia II has reduced the defenses of Nidaros to 42%!
Turn 241, 960 AD: Your La Couronne has reduced the defenses of Nidaros to 34%!
Turn 241, 960 AD: Nottingham will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 241, 960 AD: Silver Lode will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 241, 960 AD: Hittite will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 241, 960 AD: You have trained a Galleon in Nottingham. Work has now begun on a Galleon.
Turn 241, 960 AD: Barbarian's Swordsman (6.00) vs Napoleon's Musketeer (9.00)
Turn 241, 960 AD: Combat Odds: 9.9%
Turn 241, 960 AD: Barbarian's Swordsman is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 241, 960 AD: Barbarian's Swordsman is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 241, 960 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 241, 960 AD: Barbarian's Swordsman is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 241, 960 AD: Barbarian's Swordsman is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 241, 960 AD: Barbarian's Swordsman is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 241, 960 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer has defeated Barbarian's Swordsman!
Turn 241, 960 AD: While defending, your Musketeer has killed a Barbarian Swordsman!

Turn 242, 970 AD: Clam Chowder has become unhappy.
Turn 242, 970 AD: Marbled Clam can hurry Spy for 1? with 41? overflow and +1? for 15 turns.
Turn 242, 970 AD: Golden Hills can hurry Settler for 3? with 26? overflow and +1? for 42 turns.
Turn 242, 970 AD: London will become unhealthy on the next turn.
Turn 242, 970 AD: Silver Lode has grown to size 5.
Turn 242, 970 AD: Hittite has grown to size 4.
Turn 242, 970 AD: Hittite can hurry Granary for 2? with 39? overflow and +1? for 15 turns.
Turn 242, 970 AD: Catherine has 170 gold available for trade.
Turn 242, 970 AD: Joao II has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 242, 970 AD: Isabella has 30 gold available for trade.
Turn 242, 970 AD: Catherine has 2 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 242, 970 AD: You are the worst enemy of Ragnar.
Turn 242, 970 AD: The borders of Bronzed Fish are about to expand.
Turn 242, 970 AD: Your La Couronne has reduced the defenses of Nidaros to 26%!
Turn 242, 970 AD: Your Salaminia II has reduced the defenses of Nidaros to 18%!
Turn 242, 970 AD: Your Trebuchet 1 (Paired Clams) has reduced the defenses of Nidaros to 10%!
Turn 242, 970 AD: Your Trebuchet has reduced the defenses of Nidaros to 2%!
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer (9.00) vs Ragnar's Longbowman (9.96)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Combat Odds: 26.0%
Turn 242, 970 AD: (Plot Defense: +1%)
Turn 242, 970 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 242, 970 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Longbowman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Longbowman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Longbowman is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Longbowman has defeated Napoleon's Musketeer!
Turn 242, 970 AD: Your Musketeer has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer (9.00) vs Ragnar's Swordsman (8.76)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Combat Odds: 64.0%
Turn 242, 970 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 242, 970 AD: (Plot Defense: +1%)
Turn 242, 970 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Swordsman is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Swordsman is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Swordsman is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Swordsman is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Swordsman is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer has defeated Ragnar's Swordsman!
Turn 242, 970 AD: Your Musketeer has destroyed a Swordsman!
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer (9.00) vs Ragnar's Spearman (5.44)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Combat Odds: 96.1%
Turn 242, 970 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 242, 970 AD: (Plot Defense: +1%)
Turn 242, 970 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Spearman is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Spearman is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Spearman is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Spearman is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer has defeated Ragnar's Spearman!
Turn 242, 970 AD: Your Musketeer has destroyed a Spearman!
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman (6.00) vs Ragnar's Longbowman (2.76)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Combat Odds: 99.3%
Turn 242, 970 AD: (Plot Defense: +2%)
Turn 242, 970 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 242, 970 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 242, 970 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 242, 970 AD: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Longbowman is hit for 22 (21/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Longbowman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Swordsman has defeated Ragnar's Longbowman!
Turn 242, 970 AD: Your Swordsman has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer (9.00) vs Ragnar's Catapult (5.00)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Combat Odds: 97.1%
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Catapult is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Catapult is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Catapult is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Catapult is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Musketeer has defeated Ragnar's Catapult!
Turn 242, 970 AD: Your Musketeer has destroyed a Catapult!
Turn 242, 970 AD: You have captured Nidaros!!!
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Pikeman 1 (Marbled Clam) (6.00) vs Ragnar's Chariot (2.22)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 242, 970 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 242, 970 AD: (Combat: -100%)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Chariot is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Chariot is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Pikeman 1 (Marbled Clam) is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Pikeman 1 (Marbled Clam) is hit for 12 (76/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Chariot is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Ragnar's Chariot is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 242, 970 AD: Napoleon's Pikeman 1 (Marbled Clam) has defeated Ragnar's Chariot!
Turn 242, 970 AD: Your Pikeman 1 (Marbled Clam) has destroyed a Chariot!
Turn 242, 970 AD: Your Longbowman has destroyed a Worker!
Turn 242, 970 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 242, 970 AD: London will grow to size 14 on the next turn.
Turn 242, 970 AD: Canterbury will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
 
Well done mabraham!

The Roster order is.....

mabraham = just played
adrianj = Are you wanting to play yet?? UP NOW if so.
Ronnie1 = on deck, UP NOW if aj is a no
bcool = in the hole

da_Vinci = skipped by request until further notice

AWOL...
grifftavian = waiting
Thorn = waiting
 
well done mabraham, war always gets hairy and you adapted well :)

aj said earlier that he was very busy especially at home and that he wouldn't be able to play only comment on the game. aj will let us know if things change. I think it is safe to assume you are up.
 
well done mabraham, war always gets hairy and you adapted well :)
I concur. Lovely turnset :)
aj said earlier that he was very busy especially at home and that he wouldn't be able to play only comment on the game. aj will let us know if things change. I think it is safe to assume you are up.
Correct.
It is safe to assume I will not be playing any turns for the remainder of the SGOTM.

On to you Ron!
 
I think we should decide what victory condition we are chasing.

Regarding Conquest: Vicky is dead. Raganar is almost dead. Still left are Willem, Izzy, Joao and Cathy.

The latest screenshot I'm looking at has Willem with only 4 cities!! Why are we scared of him!? We were considering attacking Joao (10 cities) instead of Willem? I don't care what technology they have, Willem just seems so weak.

At this point, I think it would be valuable to find out how many more land tiles we need to get Domination. We might find that taking out Ragnar and one other + some settler spam is enough to finish the game.

For what its worth, US is great for settler spamming. You can cash buy new settlers from the cities you have just founded, making transport time minimal.
 
I think we sent more than boats down with the capture of nidaros...

check out this screen shot...

Civ4ScreenShot0111.JPG

did we ever kill a war elephant or multiple catapults??? (must have gone down with the boats...)
 
I think we sent more than boats down with the capture of nidaros...

check out this screen shot...

View attachment 291505

did we ever kill a war elephant or multiple catapults??? (must have gone down with the boats...)

Indeed. I killed lb, sw, sp, cat, chariot the traditional way, so it looks like a pair of horse archers and an elephant went down on the ships. Some of the axes, archers, cats and swords belonged to Vicky.
 
I think we should decide what victory condition we are chasing.

Regarding Conquest: Vicky is dead. Raganar is almost dead. Still left are Willem, Izzy, Joao and Cathy.

The latest screenshot I'm looking at has Willem with only 4 cities!! Why are we scared of him!? We were considering attacking Joao (10 cities) instead of Willem? I don't care what technology they have, Willem just seems so weak.

We're not scared so much as busy. 30 turns ago the army was east of England, Joao had only archers and no metal and so would have been fairly easy to take a few cities from, even with our limited catapult support. However, he got longbows a turn or two before the DOW, so we turned to look at Willem. Then Ragnar looked like he might have been going to DOW us while our army was still in transit, so we set up some defence. Instead he DOWed WvO (ineffectually). Now we've converted that defence into offence with the rest of the army arriving.

I do think we have close to enough stuff on Ragnar, given that we'll be able to cash buy some supporting units in Nidaros and later Uppsala. We have six muskets and two trebs marshalling to strike at Moscow, with four galleons and two frigates ready to roll in about 5 turns. There will be 2-3 more trebs and 5-7 more muskets by then, so there'll be a bit of spare stuff for the Hittite island. I think our home islands should start focussing on sending forces to Willem's island. I'm not sure if three wars or a pincer move on Cathy is best.

Delaying attacking WvO is trying to get full value for our hoped-for GMerchant in his ToA city. Also, he's got so few units he'll have a small army and is not much of a threat whether we get him sooner or later. He's not teching Astro, so his UU is not a threat yet.

At this point, I think it would be valuable to find out how many more land tiles we need to get Domination. We might find that taking out Ragnar and one other + some settler spam is enough to finish the game.

I determined that each tile is worth 0.11% in post 831. We have 12.65%. Cathy has 11%. I counted the tiles we'll get from Ragnar's cities, and he's 9.24%. WvO has about 5%. I laid out 13 more settlers on stuff we can see, and that gets about 7% more land. That's 45 of the required 64%. Even if we get 9 tiles per settler (and we didn't get that with the first 13), that's another 19 settlers required. So by the time we've conquered the aforementioned three, we'll want another war.

For what its worth, US is great for settler spamming. You can cash buy new settlers from the cities you have just founded, making transport time minimal.

Nice, I'd never thought of that.
 
a few thoughts for the next turn set...

CC could run both a spy and engineer for next few turns. Then with switch back to caste system might want to keep the engineer and spy and the rest merchants.

The engineer might be able to bulb the Taj mahal (although we might not have enough pop to get the hammers we need just from the engineer? need to look up the hammers you get with GE with 12? pop city)

The spy could infiltrate and we get city revolts out of it
The merchant obviously a trade mission (any AI will do ToA city of Willem's is obviously best)

I think we can get 4 galleons 2 East of the fort being built SE of Canterbury by T246. Just drafting with London gets us 4 more musketeers by then plus 6 there already + 2 treb can land next to Moscow by T249 I believe.

Whipping the 4th galleon from Nottingham next turn.

Kon Tiki could land up to 6 units NW of Yakutsk by T249 as well. The initial units marshall on the tile outside of her culture. I think this is mostly treb 4 I believe 3 from Hastings, 1 from London. Then later drafts of musketeers from London the T247, T248 musketeers could make it as well. Perhaps one more musketeer from york.

York might build a treb too, or possibly whip out/buy a settler to settle on ivory. Settling on Ivory basically gives us +1 happy which might make drafting less painful. We will get ivory from Ragnar's land but I don't think that is on a useful time line.

we could buy/build a musketeer out of hastings instead of a treb so we had a unit that could pick up forester III pretty easily (for the +15% healing) under theocracy it comes out at 7 xp just 1 xp away from that 3rd promo.

I think we save most of the money however to buy units in the western fronts.

I like a pincher movement on Cathy from both sides rather than an assault on Willem, just because it is easier to take AI's 2 at a time rather than 3 at a time.

Units in Ragnar's land might need some support, haven't looked at the west coast in detail.

I'm assuming conquest rather than domination. I think the AI will fall quickly with the units we have now. I don't see any of them putting up a huge fight. Worst case Cathy trades for horses and gets knights.

If we do go for domination we would want to go for an Great Artist in CC after the next great person. The Great Artist would instantly end the revolt and give us most of Willem's lands for example.
 
OK I got it!

I'm looking at Cathy and have a few thoughts. We need to try and time our attack for just after an AP vote. Do we know when those votes are scheduled? Could we try and hit 2-3 cities at or near the same time to reduce the impact of the AP?

Ragnar is just a logistical roll up at this point. We just need to make sure he doesn't have a secret stack somewhere that we can't see.

I think we still need to many tiles for Domination. It seems that Conquest would be faster IMO.

More to follow.
 
The victory screen shows an AP vote scheduled in 8 turns which I believe means it happens T250.

I think we just defy the vote. So we get 5 unhappiness in BC's mistake and Moscow (and other cathy cities we decide to keep). I think we can declare war and land T249. I think delaying the attack isn't worth the happiness penalty we will eventually get in Moscow. So we have 1 fewer productive cities in 8 turns? after moscow falls that is getting close to the end. Moscow could still cash buy units if we need it, even if it was very unhappy.
 
The victory screen shows an AP vote scheduled in 8 turns which I believe means it happens T250.
I'm not entirely sure how the AP handles situations where no valid proposals are available. But the sequence is usually pretty typical isn't it?

Vote comes up. Decision made. No vote for another X number of turns. Repeat.

So... If a vote comes up on T250 (eg, something like Open Borders with everyone or whatever) then we can be fairly certain than another one won't come up for X turns (X is at least 8).

This means, if we delay declaring war on Cathy until after that first vote we will have a window of 8 turns before a subsequent vote to potentially stop the war. I'm sure we can do her an awful lot of damage in that time - possibly capturing enough Hindu cities to actually stop the vote fairly?

Declaring 2 turns before a vote is due doesn't sound smart. We could probably use those 2 turns to better maneouvre our troops.
 
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