croxis
Chat room op
Hey it is croxis from Firstones. need any help?
A Babylon 5 Mod for the Final Frontier Mod
- Thread starter PsiCorps
- Start date
croxis
Chat room op
When Sanfam and I were bouncing ideas of each other these were some of the key concepts we developed:
Multiple scenario starts
There would be various scenario starts which the player would select to determine what kind of game they would play. One would be the standard civ-like start for all races where all races are balanced. Another would be the same but without the vorlons/shadows (removing the great war gameplay). The others would incorporate the race imbalances and features and would have various starting points. For example one the humans would have just acquired spaceflight and will start the game colonizing their solar system while the Minbari would already have interstellar flight. There would be other starting points in the timeline as well for those who want to play during or after the events of Babylon 5.
Map
When we were bouncing around ideas Warlords wasn't even announced yet. Because Civ IV maps were smaller we thought there should be different levels of space - Planetary space with normal movement costs, and interstellar space with extremely expensive move costs.
Also because we can see and determine where stars are in the night sky all the stars and some planets would be visible but in a fog of war.
Jumpgates Hyperspace
Civ II: Test of Time would have been perfect for this with the layered maps. Alas.
In the B5 universe hyperspace was discovered by relic jumpgates left behind by the firstones or acquired by another race who already had it (Earth from Cent, Minbari from Vorlons). To reflect this the Hyperspace technology can not be directly researched. The technology has to be acquired from another race or discover a relic jumpgate which is seeded with the map. the number of relic jumpgates and the probability of them being in a home system is inversely dependent upon the difficulty level. Lowest difficulty will have a relic gate in every home system while the highest will only have two in the entire map.
There are obvious potential gameplay problems with this. To compensate for this it must be highly desirable to share hyperspace tech. Interstellar expansion/colonization should be expensive and the trade boost by giving other races hyperspace tech should be significant.
How hyperspace works is very different from normal civ convention. When a jumpgate is built (or a relic gate) it will connect with 2-5 of the other gates. The tiles along this connection will develop basically roads. This will drastically reduce the movement cost of going through interstellar space. There will need to be some mechanism which prevents non-jumping ships from entering or exiting these lanes except at the gates and allowing jump capable ships to do so.
Stations
Stations could either be a tile improvement or a mini city. As a tile improvement it would contribute resource bonuses to the colony in question (or a minicity station) as empty space provides no food/hammer/trade. A minicity station (like babylon 5) would have a limited number of city improvement slots, limited population cap, limited city radius, and limited production capacity. These limits could be increased by city improvements.
Shadows and Light
Modeling the shadow conflict would be very interesting. One idea proposed would be to have a light/dark variable associated with each race. Positive would be "light" and negative would be "shadow". The race and leader a player chooses would set the initial bias. Civics, technology, who allies are, etc would modify the value. The more bias the variable becomes the more friendly like minded races are, what technology is availible to be researched (or even which units become availible: ie for organic hull tech a positive number would be white star and a negative number is the omega-x), as well as other bonuses or assists the more extream one becomes. At the cost of becoming more extream the other faction and fo race becomes more hostile.
Multiple scenario starts
There would be various scenario starts which the player would select to determine what kind of game they would play. One would be the standard civ-like start for all races where all races are balanced. Another would be the same but without the vorlons/shadows (removing the great war gameplay). The others would incorporate the race imbalances and features and would have various starting points. For example one the humans would have just acquired spaceflight and will start the game colonizing their solar system while the Minbari would already have interstellar flight. There would be other starting points in the timeline as well for those who want to play during or after the events of Babylon 5.
Map
When we were bouncing around ideas Warlords wasn't even announced yet. Because Civ IV maps were smaller we thought there should be different levels of space - Planetary space with normal movement costs, and interstellar space with extremely expensive move costs.
Also because we can see and determine where stars are in the night sky all the stars and some planets would be visible but in a fog of war.
Jumpgates Hyperspace
Civ II: Test of Time would have been perfect for this with the layered maps. Alas.
In the B5 universe hyperspace was discovered by relic jumpgates left behind by the firstones or acquired by another race who already had it (Earth from Cent, Minbari from Vorlons). To reflect this the Hyperspace technology can not be directly researched. The technology has to be acquired from another race or discover a relic jumpgate which is seeded with the map. the number of relic jumpgates and the probability of them being in a home system is inversely dependent upon the difficulty level. Lowest difficulty will have a relic gate in every home system while the highest will only have two in the entire map.
There are obvious potential gameplay problems with this. To compensate for this it must be highly desirable to share hyperspace tech. Interstellar expansion/colonization should be expensive and the trade boost by giving other races hyperspace tech should be significant.
How hyperspace works is very different from normal civ convention. When a jumpgate is built (or a relic gate) it will connect with 2-5 of the other gates. The tiles along this connection will develop basically roads. This will drastically reduce the movement cost of going through interstellar space. There will need to be some mechanism which prevents non-jumping ships from entering or exiting these lanes except at the gates and allowing jump capable ships to do so.
Stations
Stations could either be a tile improvement or a mini city. As a tile improvement it would contribute resource bonuses to the colony in question (or a minicity station) as empty space provides no food/hammer/trade. A minicity station (like babylon 5) would have a limited number of city improvement slots, limited population cap, limited city radius, and limited production capacity. These limits could be increased by city improvements.
Shadows and Light
Modeling the shadow conflict would be very interesting. One idea proposed would be to have a light/dark variable associated with each race. Positive would be "light" and negative would be "shadow". The race and leader a player chooses would set the initial bias. Civics, technology, who allies are, etc would modify the value. The more bias the variable becomes the more friendly like minded races are, what technology is availible to be researched (or even which units become availible: ie for organic hull tech a positive number would be white star and a negative number is the omega-x), as well as other bonuses or assists the more extream one becomes. At the cost of becoming more extream the other faction and fo race becomes more hostile.
Premier Valle
FF: Babylon 5 Mod Team
Hi Croxis, wellcome aboard! 
Nothing much to say on my front, quite a busy week at work, but I'll try to keep up to date.
BTW, still no ideas on the Dilgar shield?
Nothing much to say on my front, quite a busy week at work, but I'll try to keep up to date.
BTW, still no ideas on the Dilgar shield?
croxis
Chat room op
Another thing, I'm more than happy to offer a corner of my webhost for this, so if you guys want a wiki or a fileserver (even svn, which actually wouldn't be a bad idea) feel free to drop me a line.
I'm gonna start warming up my modelling skills and start with the EA shuttle
I'm gonna start warming up my modelling skills and start with the EA shuttle
I'm gonna start warming up my modelling skills and start with the EA shuttle
Cool, croxis!
Hi All
Kudos to Croxis for having a go at modelling. This may be the last message from me for a few days as my PC is going to have some work done on it and i don't have the luxury of a second PC or a laptop. Hope to catch up with you all sometime next week.
Kudos to Croxis for having a go at modelling. This may be the last message from me for a few days as my PC is going to have some work done on it and i don't have the luxury of a second PC or a laptop. Hope to catch up with you all sometime next week.
Premier Valle
FF: Babylon 5 Mod Team
Another thing, I'm more than happy to offer a corner of my webhost for this, so if you guys want a wiki or a fileserver (even svn, which actually wouldn't be a bad idea) feel free to drop me a line.
I'm gonna start warming up my modelling skills and start with the EA shuttle
Yeah!, version control isn't a bad idea, I have backups from v0.1.2.
About the EA Shuttle:
, just one question, the atmosferic one (I believe the class is Hestrel) or the other?
croxis
Chat room op
The other, much more simple
Premier Valle
FF: Babylon 5 Mod Team
Hello everyone!,
here is the new version v0.1.5b, includes:
The update is on my alternate server, because for some reason I'm no loger able to use Civfanatic's upload system
.
I didn't add Jha'Dur of the Dilgar because I have no idea what we can use for the Dilgar's civ button, if I figure it out (suggestions accepted) I'll add it to the next version, if not, then I'll use a generic button for that civ and add the Dilgar on the next update anyway
.
I have been thinking about the EA shuttle:
On other things, on next update perhaps I'll add a generic PDS (Planetary Defense System; the EA can use the G.O.D) using asioasioasio's satellite (RodsGods).
here is the new version v0.1.5b, includes:
Spoiler :
The update is on my alternate server, because for some reason I'm no loger able to use Civfanatic's upload system
.I didn't add Jha'Dur of the Dilgar because I have no idea what we can use for the Dilgar's civ button, if I figure it out (suggestions accepted) I'll add it to the next version, if not, then I'll use a generic button for that civ and add the Dilgar on the next update anyway
.I have been thinking about the EA shuttle:
Spoiler :
On other things, on next update perhaps I'll add a generic PDS (Planetary Defense System; the EA can use the G.O.D) using asioasioasio's satellite (RodsGods).
croxis
Chat room op
The Ea transport can't really carry a fighter, much too small
Premier Valle
FF: Babylon 5 Mod Team
There was an episode where a modified shuttle carried a Omega Black Squadron,... well, actually two shuttles.
That is a fine Idea, but PsiCorps is the one to do it, only he can edit that post (as far as I know).
There was an episode where a modified shuttle carried a Omega Black Squadron,... well, actually two shuttles.
Sounds like an emergency/make shift transport then. How about a Carrier type unit?
EDIT: I've also noticed a distinct absence of updates from the DL Database and the New/updated versions thread, which makes 'em very hard to track down, if you don't know about them in the first place. (Just a thought...)
First off, I'd like to add that I too heavily played Babylon 5 Wars which did an excellent job of fleshing out the B5 universe.
Quite a few races have dedicated fighter carriers. The largest would be the Earth Alliance's Poseidon Supercarrier, which could deploy 96 Aurora Starfuries. The Minbari, Centauri, Brakiri, Dilgar also had large carriers.
I have Mongoose Publishing's Babylon 5 Galactic Guide, which lists every solar system in the B5 universe and their planets.
Ion weapons aren't all that common in B5. I'd say most capital ships are packing a complement of large beam weapons, so how about a name change to "Heavy Beam Weapons"?
There's quite a bit known about the Dilgar, you just need to know where to look. Agents of Gaming published an entire book on the Dilgar Wars which did an excellent job of fleshing out their background and the entire war. Here's the bare bones:
They are an aggressive feline race and highly militaristic. They were among the first to make use of high-quality heavy fighters. Most of their ships lacked jump drives, so they relied on a small number of large capital ships to move from system to system. Many of their vessels were equipped for planetary bombardment (mass drivers + orbital bombs) which they used extensively, as well as biological weapons.
I have a nice leaderhead pic for Jha'dur on my system somewhere (I've been working on a B5 mod for Space Empires V off-and-on...)
That website is notoriously inaccurate and most of its info conflicts with canon and official sources. In contrast, the Babylon 5 Wars stuff was approved by JMS, the creator of B5; you can't get a much higher authority than that. An Omega should carry 24 fighters. 6 fighters per unit is a good size, as most ships only carry 6 (Hyperion), 12 (G'Quan, Primus), or 18 (Centauri Octurion battleship) fighters. Omega = 4-unit capacity. Earth's Poseidon Supercarrier = 16 units(!!)
I have a huge number of ship models in .3ds and .x formats that I've pulled from across the 'net, mostly from B5 mods for other games so they are perfect low-poly models. Definitely enough designs to cover the Earth Alliance, Narn, and Centauri fleets, with a good number of Minbari and Dilgar ones too. Unfortunately I haven't gotten around to getting permission to use them yet...
Here's the list of wargaming books I have available for background information/ship designs:
Babylon 5 Wars
2nd Edition Rules Compendium
Militaries of the League 2
Ships of the Fleet (HUNDREDS of ship designs)
The Dilgar Invasion
Showdowns 3 (scenarios and ship designs for advanced EA ships + 3 other races)
Showdowns 4 (more Dilgar war stuff)
Showdowns 5 (Narn-Centauri war, ships for the "Corillani" minor race)
Showdowns 7 (minor League races like the Hyach, Cascor, and Kor-Lyan)
A Call to Arms/Babylon 5 RPG
Galactic Guide (map with details for every planet/system)
1st and 2nd edition RPG rules
A Call to Arms rules
Quite a few races have dedicated fighter carriers. The largest would be the Earth Alliance's Poseidon Supercarrier, which could deploy 96 Aurora Starfuries. The Minbari, Centauri, Brakiri, Dilgar also had large carriers.
I have Mongoose Publishing's Babylon 5 Galactic Guide, which lists every solar system in the B5 universe and their planets.
Psicorps said:
Ion weapons aren't all that common in B5. I'd say most capital ships are packing a complement of large beam weapons, so how about a name change to "Heavy Beam Weapons"?
Psicorps said:
There's quite a bit known about the Dilgar, you just need to know where to look. Agents of Gaming published an entire book on the Dilgar Wars which did an excellent job of fleshing out their background and the entire war. Here's the bare bones:
They are an aggressive feline race and highly militaristic. They were among the first to make use of high-quality heavy fighters. Most of their ships lacked jump drives, so they relied on a small number of large capital ships to move from system to system. Many of their vessels were equipped for planetary bombardment (mass drivers + orbital bombs) which they used extensively, as well as biological weapons.
I have a nice leaderhead pic for Jha'dur on my system somewhere (I've been working on a B5 mod for Space Empires V off-and-on...)
Psicorps said:
That website is notoriously inaccurate and most of its info conflicts with canon and official sources. In contrast, the Babylon 5 Wars stuff was approved by JMS, the creator of B5; you can't get a much higher authority than that. An Omega should carry 24 fighters. 6 fighters per unit is a good size, as most ships only carry 6 (Hyperion), 12 (G'Quan, Primus), or 18 (Centauri Octurion battleship) fighters. Omega = 4-unit capacity. Earth's Poseidon Supercarrier = 16 units(!!)
I have a huge number of ship models in .3ds and .x formats that I've pulled from across the 'net, mostly from B5 mods for other games so they are perfect low-poly models. Definitely enough designs to cover the Earth Alliance, Narn, and Centauri fleets, with a good number of Minbari and Dilgar ones too. Unfortunately I haven't gotten around to getting permission to use them yet...
Here's the list of wargaming books I have available for background information/ship designs:
Babylon 5 Wars
2nd Edition Rules Compendium
Militaries of the League 2
Ships of the Fleet (HUNDREDS of ship designs)
The Dilgar Invasion
Showdowns 3 (scenarios and ship designs for advanced EA ships + 3 other races)
Showdowns 4 (more Dilgar war stuff)
Showdowns 5 (Narn-Centauri war, ships for the "Corillani" minor race)
Showdowns 7 (minor League races like the Hyach, Cascor, and Kor-Lyan)
A Call to Arms/Babylon 5 RPG
Galactic Guide (map with details for every planet/system)
1st and 2nd edition RPG rules
A Call to Arms rules
Apologies for the lack of postings since last week. First the bad news. All the work that was on the PC was lost after my new motherboard was installed. Fortunately i had a back up saved on a memory stick. You would have thought that this was good news wouldn't you? No. The memory stick has failed and i can't retrieve any of the info. You would think i would have thought about uploading to this site which would have been a good idea had i thought about it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and i will not be relying on a memory stick alone in future.
I Shall be dedicating myself to replacing the pedia texts over this weekend. Now onto everything that everyone has posted.
Premier Valle
Premier Valle
JEELEN
Welcome aboard Noble713. Thank you for all the corrections.
Noble713 If you could provide us with a list of all the systems colonized by each of the races it would be a great help in completing the Civilizations/Races part of the mod.
Noble713
Noble713
Noble713
Noble713
Now i'm going to look at the latest download courtesy of Premier.
Be seeing you.
I Shall be dedicating myself to replacing the pedia texts over this weekend. Now onto everything that everyone has posted.
Premier Valle
I Think we should keep the shuttle to transporting individuals, a lot like the Caravel in standard Civ. Let's keep it as simple as possible to get a working mod. We can start getting ambitious later
Premier Valle
I've downloaded v0.1.5b but haven't installed and examined it yet. If it's as good as the previous stop i'll be happy. will add any comments after i've had a look at it properly.
JEELEN
Apologies. I shall post the next update to the first post so it is easier to find
Welcome aboard Noble713. Thank you for all the corrections.
Noble713
My B5 Knowledge is based on the Series, Paperback books and the B5 CCG. I'm hoping you will be able to contribute a lot to this project
If you could provide us with a list of all the systems colonized by each of the races it would be a great help in completing the Civilizations/Races part of the mod.Noble713
Sounds good to me.
Noble713
Do you have something we could use for the Dilgar Civ button?
Noble713
Is this manual available as an online reference source? I haven't the spare cash to be buying new books
Noble713
Could you chase down permission to use the ship models? It would be the biggest hurdle jumped if we could get permission to use models already built!
Now i'm going to look at the latest download courtesy of Premier.
Be seeing you.
croxis
Chat room op
Psi, would you like me to set up a svn server? It be a great way to back up and keep the rest of us updated!
Premier Valle
FF: Babylon 5 Mod Team
Wellcome Noble713!, as always the beers are on me (BTW: does that expression means that I pay the beers? - 'cause thats what I intended to say )
Good to hear your new comp is up'n running. About the Data lost I have a suggestion (to all of you), use at least two partitions on your hard drive (C:\ and D:\) as this allows you to have the Operating System in one and Data in the other, so if you need to reinstall your OS, MoBo or anything your Data will be safe. Optical storage is good also.
Making a unit capable of carrying another is something I have done before (an upgrade for the destroyer that can carry a single UAV); I made such a suggestion because it will be more accurate (IMHO) to have the atmosferic shuttles carry the individuals.
@Noble713
I agree with PsiCorps, I believe you can constribute a lot to this project.
I'm planning to do some modding this weekend, so expect an new version tomorrow afternoon (GMT -6), and who knows, perhaps a flash update on sunday as well! (I'm on a modding mood)
@croxis
would we need a client for the server?
EDIT: Check this thread!, you won't be dissapointed; update within the next hours!
(BTW: does that expression means that I pay the beers? - 'cause thats what I intended to say )Good to hear your new comp is up'n running. About the Data lost I have a suggestion (to all of you), use at least two partitions on your hard drive (C:\ and D:\) as this allows you to have the Operating System in one and Data in the other, so if you need to reinstall your OS, MoBo or anything your Data will be safe. Optical storage is good also.
I Think we should keep the shuttle to transporting individuals, a lot like the Caravel in standard Civ. Let's keep it as simple as possible to get a working mod. We can start getting ambitious later
Making a unit capable of carrying another is something I have done before (an upgrade for the destroyer that can carry a single UAV); I made such a suggestion because it will be more accurate (IMHO) to have the atmosferic shuttles carry the individuals.
@Noble713
I agree with PsiCorps, I believe you can constribute a lot to this project.
do you?
I'm planning to do some modding this weekend, so expect an new version tomorrow afternoon (GMT -6), and who knows, perhaps a flash update on sunday as well! (I'm on a modding mood
)@croxis
would we need a client for the server?
EDIT: Check this thread!, you won't be dissapointed; update within the next hours!
Premier Valle
FF: Babylon 5 Mod Team
Hi all!,
it took me longer than expected and I'm not fully satisfied with it, but there are a few thing that you need to see: v0.1.6
The new version:
Testing the PDS:
Now my dissapointments with the new version:
Have you ever wondered why the FF fighter graphics are several instead of a single one?
On the P.D.S (Generic G.O.D.)
I made a N/A button (and a flag) so I'm using it with the Dilgar, PDS, and SA-3, perhaps tomorrow I'll make some buttons.
Of course the Aurora and PDS need the tech_prereq, but were left without it for testing purposes.
it took me longer than expected and I'm not fully satisfied with it, but there are a few thing that you need to see: v0.1.6
The new version:
Spoiler :
Testing the PDS:
Spoiler :
Now my dissapointments with the new version:
Have you ever wondered why the FF fighter graphics are several instead of a single one?
Spoiler :
On the P.D.S (Generic G.O.D.)
Spoiler :
I made a N/A button (and a flag) so I'm using it with the Dilgar, PDS, and SA-3, perhaps tomorrow I'll make some buttons.
Of course the Aurora and PDS need the tech_prereq, but were left without it for testing purposes.
hi psicorps,
just wanted to say,
im a huge b5 fan, except the new boring tv film they got out....hehe
i really hope someone will finnally get some b5 units for you,
your b5 and star trek.....have so much pottencial,
the only stinky problem....not enough unit models.
cammon i say that we have enough airplane and tank models to last for eternity....
we need more scifi starshps!
keep up this mod development!!
great work.
just wanted to say,
im a huge b5 fan, except the new boring tv film they got out....hehe
i really hope someone will finnally get some b5 units for you,
your b5 and star trek.....have so much pottencial,
the only stinky problem....not enough unit models.
cammon i say that we have enough airplane and tank models to last for eternity....
we need more scifi starshps!
keep up this mod development!!
great work.
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