Civ5 at PAX

The_J said:

did not see something like that at the Gamescom.
Interesting, that this is also developed, quite cool

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Every game that uses 3D models as it's underlying technology (which is probably 95% of alle PC games released today) are able to be displayed in true 3D with the technology from Nvidia for example. So this really isn't anything developers have to do for themselves. Using the Nvidia system any Direct3D application that runs in fullscreen mode will be displayed in true 3D!

They have to pay attention to several details though if they want the 3D impression to be accurate and not painful to the eye. I don't know if Firaxis has done anything in that direction.

Anno 1701 (1701 A.D.) for example looks gorgeous in true 3D and the whole 3D hype hadn't even started yet when that game came out.

stealth_nsk said:

Hmm...
It was confirmed on early screens and interviews what you could show resources on regular view and turn on and off layers in strategic view.

And I hope UI will be more polished at release.

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It appears that civ V options are just as well hidden an undiscoverable as in civ 4, yay.

I still quite curious if there is a diplomacy screen, every one of the forum users here who have gone to events to play the game can't find one, and thats a little worrying.

Schuesseled said:

It appears that civ V options are just as well hidden an undiscoverable as in civ 4, yay.

I still quite curious if there is a diplomacy screen, every one of the forum users here who have gone to events to play the game can't find one, and thats a little worrying.

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It was a version of several months old. I expect UI to be greatly reworked for a final one.

Auncien said:

I thought "Sid" wasn't the Lead Designer of this game.

Also, I find the "it's an early build... I'm sure great things will appear at launch" argument to be inadequate as we're now 17 days from release. Who knows? Maybe the 21st will hit and it will be amazing. Since they won't provide us with an early demo, like they once suggested that they might, nobody really knows.

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Sid's always the top dog.

stealth_nsk said:

I tried to play KB: Armored Princess in 3D. The same 10 minutes before you end and never return to this feature.

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Seriously mate, you really do sound like you're bending over backwards to defend the short-comings of this game. They bragged about the improved diplomacy of Civ5 almost as much as they have 1upt. Yet this is the one feature they seem to be the most reluctant to show hands-on previewers in its most up-to-date form (well that & Social Policies apparently). In spite of your claims, that gives me good reasons to doubt that this is going to be nothing more than a War Game bearing the title "Civilization"-a feeling increased by the knowledge that there seems to be an entire Social Policy Branch whose *only* benefit is for waging war. Sorry, but the more I hear about Civ5 in the closing weeks, the less inclined I am to buy it-which is quite an achievement given that I was one of its staunchest supporters just a few months ago!

Aussie.

Aussie_Lurker said:

Seriously mate, you really do sound like you're bending over backwards to defend the short-comings of this game. They bragged about the improved diplomacy of Civ5 almost as much as they have 1upt. Yet this is the one feature they seem to be the most reluctant to show hands-on previewers in its most up-to-date form (well that & Social Policies apparently). In spite of your claims, that gives me good reasons to doubt that this is going to be nothing more than a War Game bearing the title "Civilization"-a feeling increased by the knowledge that there seems to be an entire Social Policy Branch whose *only* benefit is for waging war. Sorry, but the more I hear about Civ5 in the closing weeks, the less inclined I am to buy it-which is quite an achievement given that I was one of its staunchest supporters just a few months ago!

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There are things what concern me, like lack of info about diplomacy system, or balance issues. But not the gameplay system in general.

I have some experience in designing live RPG games and I could tell you what creating working mechanics for them is hell more difficult than CRPG. You could only playtest it in your head, before actually running on a hundred of alive people. This gives great skills to foresee the system in action before actually seeing it.

And what I see in Civ 5 sounds very good for me. Not all decisions are the one I'd made, but looks like everything should work very well. Much better than Civ 4, from my point of view.

Aussie_Lurker said:

Seriously mate, you really do sound like you're bending over backwards to defend the short-comings of this game. They bragged about the improved diplomacy of Civ5 almost as much as they have 1upt. Yet this is the one feature they seem to be the most reluctant to show hands-on previewers in its most up-to-date form (well that & Social Policies apparently). In spite of your claims, that gives me good reasons to doubt that this is going to be nothing more than a War Game bearing the title "Civilization"-a feeling increased by the knowledge that there seems to be an entire Social Policy Branch whose *only* benefit is for waging war. Sorry, but the more I hear about Civ5 in the closing weeks, the less inclined I am to buy it-which is quite an achievement given that I was one of its staunchest supporters just a few months ago!

Aussie.

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There's also a social policy branch called Commerce, but that doesn't turn Civilization into Monopoly.

SevenSpirits said:

This is how [right-click] works in civ iv too.

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Not sure about your installation, but for me right-click in Civ4 never does anything except open a context menu. Granted, the context menu never had anything except Go To unless you right-clicked a city, but you wouldn't send a unit across the map with a single click.

Maybe Civ3 spoiled me or something, but I catch myself trying to right-click -> view Civilopedia entry on units even when that no longer works in Civ4.

Azazell said:

isndl --> You play in final version??

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I have no idea. I can try to get a version number if I play again, but I don't know what the latest version is either. It's definitely running Steam though, as shift-tab opened up the overlay.

GeoModder said:

When you had half a dozen or so menus open, could you move them around so they don't obscure one another?

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I never tried moving them, but given the size of the windows (they're roughly comparable to how big the menus are in Civ4) I doubt they're designed to move.

Schuesseled said:

It appears that civ V options are just as well hidden an undiscoverable as in civ 4, yay.

I still quite curious if there is a diplomacy screen, every one of the forum users here who have gone to events to play the game can't find one, and thats a little worrying.

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I wouldn't say Civ4's options are that undiscoverable - I found it easy to toggle resource bubble notifications the first time I played, and I didn't even know the feature existed beforehand . If I had to guess, it seems like the art direction for the UI makes the buttons less distinct (no colors to make it stand out) and so you're likely to not notice one. Not really a problem after learning the game, but it's a little harder on a new player.

There is a Diplomacy window (F4), but I find it lacking. It's split roughly 60-40 with Civilizations on the left and City-States on the right, and it really only shows available resources to trade with each Civ. I didn't notice any existing deals in that window, but I didn't look very closely (just one more turn! ).

Aussie, you are at least gonna give the demo a try right?

sensual benny said:

There's also a social policy branch called Commerce, but that doesn't turn Civilization into Monopoly.

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Hmmm, if I'm not mistaken, the Commerce branch is also primarily about boosting your military-namely your navies. So in fact you have Autocracy, Honor & Commerce which are all important to the military aspect of the game. Also, given the importance of happiness when it comes to acquiring cities via conquest, you could argue that the Piety Branch is also very useful in this regard. That seems like an awful lot of branches devoted to the military component of the game if you ask me!

Aussie.

The game *does* seem military heavy, but I am not sure it is much worse than Civ4.

A demo would be immensely helpful. We could then quit this hypothetical crap and argue about a game we're actually playing.

Me said:

Aussie, you are at least gonna give the demo a try right?

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I'm going to be watching this site-& Apolyton-very carefully. There are people at both these sites whose opinions I place great trust in. If they sing the praises of the game then, in spite of my current reservations, I will buy the game. Failing that, I probably will try the demo, but I fail to see right now how that can win me back if the opinions of those I trust can't do so. Its really disappointing because, barely two months ago, I was practically peeing my pants with excitement, but now I'm almost at the point of "Meh"!

isndl --> http://well-of-souls.com/civ/images/tech_tree3.jpg - this tech tree is the same, in you playing version game?

AlpsStranger said:

The game *does* seem military heavy, but I am not sure it is much worse than Civ4.

A demo would be immensely helpful. We could then quit this hypothetical crap and argue about a game we're actually playing.

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Seriously, I've played *so* many games of Civ4 where war barely featured at all, & there were so many aspects of the game (like Religion, Civics, Unique Buildings, Cultural Assimilation etc) which had little or anything to do with war. With Civ5, though, it feels like every 2nd thing I read has to do with the military aspect of the game!

Aussie.

That's because war is more exciting in a review.

"5 turns ago I gained another tile" "My gold is going up!" "I finally built a forge in Rome"

all of these are much less exciting than, "The Germans declare war!" "My archers bombard the enemy and my legions engage!" "After smashing the German army I begin sieging Munich, the first step in toppling the mighty Reich!"

Azazell said:

isndl --> http://well-of-souls.com/civ/images/tech_tree3.jpg - this tech tree is the same, in you playing version game?

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I didn't notice anything different. It's a little big for me to have memorized in one session, though.

Aussie_Lurker said:

Seriously, I've played *so* many games of Civ4 where war barely featured at all, & there were so many aspects of the game (like Religion, Civics, Unique Buildings, Cultural Assimilation etc) which had little or anything to do with war. With Civ5, though, it feels like every 2nd thing I read has to do with the military aspect of the game!

Aussie.

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Well, maybe I am just more of a warmonger than I thought. It may well be true. It may *be* more of a wargame than Civ4.

IV is the only civ game I've been able to play without war, and that's 'cause the cIV AI is stupid.

Aussie_Lurker said:

Seriously, I've played *so* many games of Civ4 where war barely featured at all, & there were so many aspects of the game (like Religion, Civics, Unique Buildings, Cultural Assimilation etc) which had little or anything to do with war. With Civ5, though, it feels like every 2nd thing I read has to do with the military aspect of the game!

Aussie.

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You're just getting a positively-reinforced bias because you're looking for these things. There are plenty of things in Civ 5 that have nothing to do with war, just like Civ 4. It's just you've played one and you haven't played the other (and you have a starting dislike due to a few changed/removed features).

bjbrains said:

You're just getting a positively-reinforced bias because you're looking for these things. There are plenty of things in Civ 5 that have nothing to do with war, just like Civ 4. It's just you've played one and you haven't played the other (and you have a starting dislike due to a few changed/removed features).

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That isn't necessarily fair. While I am certainly far more fond of what I have heard about Civ5 than Aussie is I cannot entirely disagree with him on this point.

On the other hand, it would be hard to argue that war wasn't represented quite thoroughly in Civ4. I think that Civ5 may be *more* of a wargame, I am just not willing to concede that it will be disastrously so.

One interesting thing to consider may be the civics/units that get bonuses for being in friendly territory. It could well be that a builder could use a far smaller force than in Civ4 for defense.