Rocks 2 Rockets

Well, my plan was to make peace with the Chinese anyway (which would have solved the Sumerian Problem automatically). I felt like having enough territory and wanted to concentrate on building up my empire and make it ready for modern age. So it just started to become interesting, also cause of the rising American, I recently made contact with. That's why I'm particularliy sad that the savegames ruined :-(. [Could you maybe also see into CatherineBC1115cc if the crash there can be averted? I could well continue with that than]

Rocks 2 Rockets Patch v0.3 is now available here.

It is cumulative, so you don't need patch v0.1 or v0.2 as everything in them is in this.

The DLL is now up to C2C revision 4848 for purposes of bug fixes and optimizations, which is perhaps half way between C2C v28 and v29 (assuming I didn't miss anything - a couple of the bug fixes in this DLL are actually old things that I managed to miss). It also has a bugfix that has not yet made it into C2C, for the "units not always using up some movement when attacking" issue.

I strongly recommend not using the "stack attack" option available on the DCM tab of the BUG options. It's functionality is not quite the same as the regular attack. This should be fixed eventually.

A variety of adjustments, mostly small, have been made to the content. Some are bug fixes, some are balance changes, and some are just because I felt like it. A list is given in the download description and in the included Patch v0.3 Notes.txt file.

ejf said:

That's why I'm particularliy sad that the savegames ruined :-(. [Could you maybe also see into CatherineBC1115cc if the crash there can be averted? I could well continue with that than]

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I think you'll find that the save games you posted can be continued if you apply the new v0.3 patch. (OK, I must admit I have not actually run one of them: Catherine BC-1235bombard.)

There may still be some ranged bombarding issue since I really did not look into that as I never had any trouble doing it, but the end of turn crashes should be fixed. I played after the point the first one used to crash for something like 20 turns, and the later CatherineBC1115cc one for at least 4 turns (probably something more like a dozen).

I did not determine the actual underlying cause of either of the issues I found. I did add things to treat the symptoms of the two things that caused your saves to crash for me so as to stop it from crashing:
The "plot owned by dead player" issue was fixed by checking for it and treating such a plot as if it were unowned in the danger evaluation code. (At some point during the turn processing all plots are actually checked for this and get their ownership changed if it happens, so this crash is in the window between when the player is killed off and when that check is done. I do not know why the dead player's plot ownership can outlive the player.)
The "fails to find path through the tech tree to already selected beeline target tech" issue was fixed by checking the returned path to see if it is NULL and if so skip the rest of the beeline code, clear the beeline data, and proceed with a normal full evaluation of what to research. I have no idea how it is possible for it to return a NULL instead of a valid path through the tech tree.

I've been having provlems with r2r crashing every second turn, but now it crashes before I get to the next turn, so I can't play at all. the error message says:
FAILED TO ALLOCATE VIDEO MEMORY. PLEASE TRY TO REDUCE YOUR GRAPHICS SETTINGS.
FILE:\MAIN\CIVILIZATION4\SDKs\GAMEBRYO02_0\CORELIBS\NIDX9RENDERER\NIDX9VBMANAGER.CPP, LINE: 1019

I did reduce graphic settings to low the first time I got that message, but it doesn't seem to help.
Will that patch 3 fix these problems maybe?

edit: I did "install" patch 3, but it still crashes

All R2R patches are for R2R only, for use in the Rocks2Rockets mod folder.

This video memory allocation error is, sadly, more or less another form of the "MAF" error. It can go away if you turn town the graphics, in which case it probably is referring to the memory on the video card, but sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't then this issue is possibly not due to lack of memory on the graphics card, but as far as I can tell is often from either DX9 itself or the game's underlying graphics engine (Gamebryo) running out of memory (regular memory, not video memory) which it needs to keep track of things.

There is some chance that patch 0.3 will help as it includes a few optimizations which slightly reduce memory usage and a few fixes for minor memory leaks. But odds of it helping with this are not very good - maybe 50% that it will let you play for a while longer, after which it may happen again. If you are not at patch 0.2 (or even 0.1) the chances of it helping go up some as each patch includes this sort of improvement.

Some questions:
What map size are you using?
How far into the game are you, in terms of era and turn?
How much memory does your graphics card have?
How much memory does your computer have?
Is your version of Windows a 64 bit version?
If your version of Windows is 32 bit, are you using the "3GB" switch or equivalent for your version of Windows?
Have you tried using the viewports feature?

A couple things to try:

The "single unit graphics" option in the regular game options might help, if reducing your graphics settings didn't activate it.

You could try activating viewports, if you haven't. I hate to admit it, as it is my mod, but I have never really used viewports and can not be certain how much it would help, or even verify that it actually works correctly in R2R. If you try it and it helps, please let me know. Likewise, if you try it and it doesn't help with this (or doesn't work at all), that would be good to know too.

I really like this idea behind this modmod

C2C is fine as it is - sometimes a bit confusing (at least if english is not your native language) but it's okay, esp. if one has the hardware, which I gladly have at home.

But on my Notebook C2C is not as funny anymore (medieval onwards).
And I'm working out of town during the week.
R2R fills that gasp very nice

Please continue your project.

I wholeheartedly second this.

I highly suggest that GodEmperor attempt to maintain this as the stripped core of the current C2C project. For all the reasons he started this in the 1st place. I'm sure you are not the only person who would like this.

It essentially is C2C Light - and could be good for those with older machines that struggle or beginners that are intimidated by all of C2C's depth of improved content.

@GodEmperor and Nimek - I also think you should get together and combine RAAT optionally into this, to improve and update C2C Light options and include to remove or disable some of the more popularly frustrating features (for some people). It should attract a lot more players to C2C who were stuck on a single problem.

C2C: RAAT MOD - Removes All Annoying Things from C2C
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=476066

You would probably get a lot of support from
-those with older machines
-those who dislike a specific C2C feature and would play it otherwise.
-new people who are lost at first and would like a step up intro.

This way you could keep R2R and RAAT current with C2C, get support of the entire community, keep a lot of new players happy, and work with the C2C team to either:
-work towards having R2R / C2C Light as the core of C2C. either modularly, or as updated mod to the current svn /ver.
-keep updated a separate mod that strips out the most popularly agreed upon, and undesired/unstable features of C2C. (harder work in my opinion).
At the very least it could inspire certain less desired things to be made optional, directly in C2C.

All in all I think this could be worked toward, as people show interest.

I see this as a combined philosophy that would work for many people.

I ask everyone - do you like this idea?
If you had to change something about C2C, What would it be?

@GodEmperor -

What do you think about
bringing Rocks to Rockets and RAAT more together,
to help players with older machines, or who dislike certain common things about C2C?


@Anyone

Does anyone want to see a more playable or lighter version of C2C?
What keeps you from making C2C your favorite mod or game?

It could encourage more innovation in C2C to make game options?
Or it could become a modular core to C2C, that could be more easily updated??

What would you like to see?


I would also like to ask everyone:

What are the top 7 things you think could be removed could make a streamlined or lighter C2C?

What are the top 7 things you dislike or would like to see improved about C2C?

Anyone else want to sound out about speed improvements, features that should be removed or made optional, fixing something majorly broken, likes/dislikes about C2C?

I hope this conversation can continue to help make C2C even better!

don't know if this has been reported already
the crocodile (small) looks like a knight with horse and armor

is this the right place to report any bugs?

ichbinsehselber said:

don't know if this has been reported already
the crocodile (small) looks like a knight with horse and armor

is this the right place to report any bugs?

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Go into the options and under graphics switch animations on. With animations off you don't get the "skin" of the unit but the 'skin" of the unit that the unit is based off.

My impressions:
There are many and tons of small buildings already in the prehistoric age. I always thought I like having many buildings available, but I think it is just too much.
Having Rangers run around and explore is like getting 20 animal attacks each turn allowing you to build multiple buildings in one turn. Why would all these deers attack my rangers?
Also the number of animals seems to be problematic from balancing point of view.

Also at the start of the game the tile food is almost irrelevant because you get so much extra food from buildings. So need to manually select the right plot to work.

I like the mod and there is so much in it, so much work with good intentions. But honestly in my opinion it is just too much.

If you think R2R is too much, then you should avoid C2C (even if you get a computer that can handle it) since it has much, much more of pretty much everything... Although C2C does have some of the buildings auto-build when the requirements are met, it also has more that you have to build manually. I think there are something like 2800 buildings (including national and world wonders) in C2C and "only" about 1700ish in R2R. Admittedly, you don't actually build all of them directly - the Myth and similar buildings you get from animals, for example - but there is almost always some building you could be producing. It has more of pretty much everything else too, although perhaps not quite as large a difference, proportionately, for most categories.

The number of animals you will get in a game is quite variable, depending on the details of the map. Sometimes you get vast numbers of them, other times there are only small numbers. When you can only hunt (or be hunted by) an animal every 4 or 6 turns (or sometimes even less often), instead of one (or more) per turn, it makes a huge difference in your rate of development. The terrain also matters in that areas with very little forest/jungle/bamboo make it hard on your hunters, especially the earlier ones. There are animals out there that have a significant chance of killing anything earlier than a Scout type unit even on good defensive terrain (the cave bear, for example) and have a non-negligible chance kill a Hunter if it is not on defensive terrain, at least until it gets a couple of promotions. Neanderthals are also dangerous to even a Hunter when not on defensive terrain, which makes it difficult when there isn't much of it.

You are correct that at the beginning food is almost irrelevant. Growth is so slow initially that it is not very important and you should focus on commerce and production (not necessarily in that order) for a while while you produce units to hunt with and some buildings. Once you have a couple of hunters out and a couple food producing buildings built and some health increases, and hopefully revealed a food type resource in your workable area, food becomes more important. Much of the food will often come from hunting rather than working plots in the early game. Nevertheless, growing your population via working a high food plot (or plots, once you hit 2) is very important once you have a realistic capability to do so in a less than huge number of turns. So for a while after the initial build up phase you should focus on food instead of other things. It is really nice to have your city's population be at least 4, and preferably 5 if you can manage it, when you get the tribalism tech. If you don't, it will slow the rate at which you can build the very expensive Tribe unit.

By the way, the experience varies somewhat with game speed. It is not really intended to play R2R on a speed which is faster than Epic, and even on Epic you should make sure to turn on Multiple Production and probably Multiple Research via the custom game options when you start the game. Things tend to just happen too fast on faster speeds. So if you were playing at Normal (or quicker) you should be aware that things were happening faster than they are really intended to.

Game difficulty is also important. You should play R2R set to at least one difficulty level higher than you play regular BtS, possibly two, just to have a similar challenge once you get used to the mod. One major cause of this is that the complexities of some of the building requirements can cause the AI to have difficulties building them in a timely manner.

Hi,
I'm new to R2R and C2C mods but I was playing RoM/AND for about 4 years, so I'm kinda experienced player. Maybe I'm now a hardcore one, deity AI crusher, I was playing mostly on monarch/emperor level and I've never played these mods on multiplayer. But I know the mechanics for sure.
My first attempt to play C2C was in May and I was somehow crushed by the complexity of it. I've only managed to play through prehistoric era, which is awesome, and I've quit it at the beginning of ancient. There were just too many buildings, small factors, too many everything! Now after playing Civ V BNW, I've came back to play R2R, which I believe is almost that, what a C2C should be, in my thoughts of course. But there are few problems I'm occurring now, again at the beginning of the ancient era.

Firstly, I'm playing on GEM R2R version, included in mod. Monarch difficulty, marathon speed, Iroquois civ. My aim was to play one of pre-Columbian civs, to surprise Europeans when they come to discover the New World I like to play religious, high cultured civ and as tech leader. Since I'm playing without "Usable Mountains" the Mayan and Inca starting positions are just terrible, so I have to play one of the North Americans.

I've gone through prehistoric quite nicely, I think I'm tech leader now, I've wiped out the Native Americans, got 4 cities: my capital's got 7 population, most buildings done, producing wonders, army and settlers (I'm going to expand to 6/6 cities that despotism allows to manage with), second one is the old Native's capital: 8 population, good food production, many resources. Other 2 cities got 2-3 pop, they are placed on coast and slowly developing.

My biggest problem is religion. I've got Divine Prophets and Limited Religions on, I've discovered druidism and shamanism as a first one, got Great Prophet, and he can't found a new religion. There isn't a button to found/spread religion at all. In the religion tab, there aren't any information whether there are any already founded or not. Just nothing under a religions names. Is it possible that one of the civs that I've not met yet have founded a religion and there is no info about that?

Second is slow tech progression since I've advanced to the ancient era. It is now 2300 BC, and I'm still at the very beginning of it. I was first to discover Sedentary lifestyle, but now it is going terribly slow, it takes me about 11-14 turns to discover anything! Where in prehistoric it was 2-4 turns. I know, that I should go slower, but I don't have any prospect to change that. Is that because lack of religion? In AND I'd be now at the end of ancient or beginning of classical
Other 3 civs on my continent, that are: Aztecs, Maya and Inca are behind me for sure, but they all are in terrible starting possitions, now they got 2-3 small cities. The Native Americans were kinda good before I've wiped them off, just a few tech behind me, competitive in cities size and number, just had got smaller army.

But at the end I'd like to say, that this is a great mod without any doubts. You all did a great job
PS. Sorry for my english as it is not my native

MaciekP said:

Firstly, I'm playing on GEM R2R version

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I hope you mean the R2R Earth - 28 Civs 124X68 map, as the other earth maps are not actually set up for R2R (they are probably missing resources, at least, and are likely to have other issues; they were actually included only because I forgot to remove them).

My biggest problem is religion. I've got Divine Prophets and Limited Religions on, I've discovered druidism and shamanism as a first one, got Great Prophet, and he can't found a new religion. There isn't a button to found/spread religion at all. In the religion tab, there aren't any information whether there are any already founded or not. Just nothing under a religions names. Is it possible that one of the civs that I've not met yet have founded a religion and there is no info about that?

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I must admit that it has been ages since I tried the Divine Prophets option. I don't even remember the details of how it works. It might be broken in R2R. I guess I need to give it a try and find out. I would expect any founded religion to show up as founded even if you have not yet met the founding civilization (in that case it should just not tell you where it was founded).

Second is slow tech progression since I've advanced to the ancient era. It is now 2300 BC, and I'm still at the very beginning of it. I was first to discover Sedentary lifestyle, but now it is going terribly slow, it takes me about 11-14 turns to discover anything! Where in prehistoric it was 2-4 turns.

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The Ancient techs are much more expensive than the Prehistoric techs. I suggest going back and getting some of the Prehistoric techs that you skipped while you continue to grow your civ via both settlers and getting more population in the existing cities. Make sure you have some workers, now that you can make them or upgrade to them. Once you have actual workers it is much easier to make sure all the plots you are working have improvements.

Also, you might be having hunting issues. The diversity of animals you have gotten might be a bit low, so try hunting down in South America to get a different set so you can build more Myth buildings (before they go a obsolete), if you have not already done so. You should already have at least Raft Building so you can carry some hunters around the Peaks that block access via land. The different animal types have restrictions on where they show up, so each continent tends to have some animal types not found elsewhere. You should also be picking up the occasional "Tales of" from sea animals on the coast (although rafts are not very good at this, they get sunk a lot) which you can also use to improve your research rate a little.

My biggest problem is religion. I've got Divine Prophets and Limited Religions on, I've discovered druidism and shamanism as a first one, got Great Prophet, and he can't found a new religion. There isn't a button to found/spread religion at all. In the religion tab, there aren't any information whether there are any already founded or not. Just nothing under a religions names. Is it possible that one of the civs that I've not met yet have founded a religion and there is no info about that?

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I was not as good a programmer when I did this first project here. I did not know how to clear up some possible confusions in the texts that you might be running up against. I know how now but it's a matter of finding the time. It's on my infinite goals list.

To really know what may have taken place, you can check the religion help screen. If the earliest religions are already founded it would make sense what you're experiencing. On Limited Religions, if you have a holy city, it won't let you found any more religions, even if the holy city was captured. Not optimal but its the way it was originally designed and all I did with the option was debug it and make it compatible with DP.

With nothing under the religion's names... something may be amiss there. But I'd find it impossible to debug for R2R since I don't have the source on that.

God-Emperor said:

Once you have a couple of hunters out and a couple food producing buildings built and some health increases, and hopefully revealed a food type resource in your workable area, food becomes more important. Much of the food will often come from hunting rather than working plots in the early game. Nevertheless, growing your population via working a high food plot (or plots, once you hit 2) is very important once you have a realistic capability to do so in a less than huge number of turns. So for a while after the initial build up phase you should focus on food instead of other things. It is really nice to have your city's population be at least 4, and preferably 5 if you can manage it, when you get the tribalism tech. If you don't, it will slow the rate at which you can build the very expensive Tribe unit.

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Still, it is unbalanced in my eyes. I get 23 food from buildings in my size 6 capital. So I do not care much if I get 1 or 2 food from a specific tile.
In those cities that get the food from hunting it is even more extreme. Getting 20+ food per turn from hunting in addition to buildings (ok these cities get less food from buildings but still).

God-Emperor said:

By the way, the experience varies somewhat with game speed. It is not really intended to play R2R on a speed which is faster than Epic, and even on Epic you should make sure to turn on Multiple Production and probably Multiple Research via the custom game options when you start the game. Things tend to just happen too fast on faster speeds. So if you were playing at Normal (or quicker) you should be aware that things were happening faster than they are really intended to.

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This is good to know. I played normal speed. It is often not obvious which are the intended settings of a mod. In addition it would be good to know the intended map(s).

God-Emperor said:

Game difficulty is also important. You should play R2R set to at least one difficulty level higher than you play regular BtS, possibly two, just to have a similar challenge once you get used to the mod. One major cause of this is that the complexities of some of the building requirements can cause the AI to have difficulties building them in a timely manner.

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I expected this. Still I chose an easy setting with rising difficulty because I am a builder style player and usually I have trouble with early attacks and later I find the game easy because of my tech lead.
So I was surprised that there are no barbarian attacks (in prehistoric age and early ancient age) in this mod even with raging barbarians on. Very rarely a neanderthal enters the cultural borders. And they get a large penalty to city attack.

So is the mod still active? if yes there is few things that i would like to request to be added if possible.

1. more/improved leaders head picture for some civs, can possibly do it myself but need some tutorial how to without breaking the game
2.adding some building/units from main mod(respectives era)
and the developing leaders feature from the main mod, this one pretty good .

Leng_ said:

So is the mod still active? if yes there is few things that i would like to request to be added if possible.

1. more/improved leaders head picture for some civs, can possibly do it myself but need some tutorial how to without breaking the game
2.adding some building/units from main mod(respectives era)
and the developing leaders feature from the main mod, this one pretty good .

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It is still being developed, although rather slowly. The next release, as patch version 0.4, should be out in a couple of weeks.

1) Not very likely to happen.
2) Very few buildings are likely to be added.
and) The developing leaders feature might get incorporated eventually since it is interesting, but not for the next release.

I like to see the health/illness mod in R2R.
Do you think that is possible ?

Sheila2 said:

I like to see the health/illness mod in R2R.
Do you think that is possible ?

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It's possible. The disease property was removed from R2R because the version of C2C it was based no did not actually use it for anything. Now that C2C is using it for the basic disease type things, it provides an example of using it that could be duplicated (although possibly with fewer buildings it can put in your cities to save some memory). It is not likely to be in the next release, but could show up sometime after that.