Wondering what the appetite would be to create a tier list for how well the cpu ai plays civs.i think it would look different than the deity tier list, but lets see. Should we do thi and if so go poll by poll for each slot maybe? Voting would be based on stamdard speed continents and difficulty range of kimg to immortal; and be a discussion of how well the ai handles the civ
Ai tier list
- Thread starter White Out
- Start date
3 tiersI'd say, there are only two tier levels needed. Greece and everything else
Greece everybody but Mongolia, then Mongolia
Don't get me wrong I love playing with Keshiks and Khans but Ghengis's propensity to snatch up City States gets him in trouble pretty quickly.
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Catherine the GrAIt 
Cathy almost always opens Rationalism and successfully avoids the Culture and Religion Traps.
In a recent standard Pangaea BNW deity game she had:
Apollo around t215
labs in ~ 220
advanced ballistics (boosters) on t240
Graphs post game showed she was raking in more than 3k beakers per turn on ~22 cities. Far ahead of any other BNW deity AI I've seen yet. Unfortunately I annexed Moscow in the late 250s to trigger domination, so no launch for you this time Cathy.
I thinks a combination of her high expansive, high science and LOW boldness flavours are the ticket.
Alexander the GrAIt too, yes. I think he is also the AI that benefits most from immortal -> deity.
Pocatello ain't that bad.
Cathy almost always opens Rationalism and successfully avoids the Culture and Religion Traps.
In a recent standard Pangaea BNW deity game she had:
Apollo around t215
labs in ~ 220
advanced ballistics (boosters) on t240
Graphs post game showed she was raking in more than 3k beakers per turn on ~22 cities. Far ahead of any other BNW deity AI I've seen yet. Unfortunately I annexed Moscow in the late 250s to trigger domination, so no launch for you this time Cathy.
I thinks a combination of her high expansive, high science and LOW boldness flavours are the ticket.
Alexander the GrAIt too, yes. I think he is also the AI that benefits most from immortal -> deity.
Pocatello ain't that bad.
Shaka (no explanation needed but if you survive the early game he goes to the bottom of the list)
Greece (you're going to have to enter information era eventually... and if you do and he has lots of gold... beware!)
Korea (a whole era ahead of other AI... quite ridiculous really, I cringe whenever he shows up because he puts a timer on the game)
Russia, America, Iroquois, Shoshone
Everyone else
Genghis, Monty, Viking-guy, Songhai, Kamehameha (love this guy as a loyal friend but generally he sucks and he is never a threat to whatever VC)
Greece (you're going to have to enter information era eventually... and if you do and he has lots of gold... beware!)
Korea (a whole era ahead of other AI... quite ridiculous really, I cringe whenever he shows up because he puts a timer on the game)
Russia, America, Iroquois, Shoshone
Everyone else
Genghis, Monty, Viking-guy, Songhai, Kamehameha (love this guy as a loyal friend but generally he sucks and he is never a threat to whatever VC)
AI is flavor driven; so it depends heavily upon what settings and who is next to them.
Some of the AIs with the best flavors for a late game will be wiped out early if they start right next to one of the aggressive AIs.
And if you one of those AIs with aggressive flavors aren't close enough to anybody,they will really struggle.
In Vanilla and G&K; it used to be Korea was the biggest long term threat to a science victory (if they weren't right next to an aggressive AI), however it appears to have gotten confused by the new BNW features.
The following AIs though are really bad at using their UAs:
1. Netherlands. It won't trade the last copy of its luxury for another luxury for a reasonable price; making it effectively non-existent. (It "only" wants 2 luxuries + a lot of gold for its last copy instead of 3 luxuries and a lot of gold)
2. Austria. It rarely uses its ability to marry city states. (It was really good on G&K release, but got broken by the G&K fall patch. Slightly better in BNW, but its still rare)
Some of the AIs with the best flavors for a late game will be wiped out early if they start right next to one of the aggressive AIs.
And if you one of those AIs with aggressive flavors aren't close enough to anybody,they will really struggle.
In Vanilla and G&K; it used to be Korea was the biggest long term threat to a science victory (if they weren't right next to an aggressive AI), however it appears to have gotten confused by the new BNW features.
The following AIs though are really bad at using their UAs:
1. Netherlands. It won't trade the last copy of its luxury for another luxury for a reasonable price; making it effectively non-existent. (It "only" wants 2 luxuries + a lot of gold for its last copy instead of 3 luxuries and a lot of gold)
2. Austria. It rarely uses its ability to marry city states. (It was really good on G&K release, but got broken by the G&K fall patch. Slightly better in BNW, but its still rare)
I break the AIs down into four categories (or tiers if you like)
1) Reliable PITA: AIs in this category are serious contenders to win the game; direct intervention will likely be necessary to stop them from running away with the game. A couple examples would be Greece for diplomatic victories and Korea for science victories.
2) Frequent Nuisance: Not usually in contention to win, but can certainly make you lose and mess with your game plan. Flipping all your cities to their religion, or attacking early and often will land a civ in this category for me. I find the warmongers force more units out early, but probably won't warrant a late-game desperation attack to stop them. Examples: Montezuma, Ethiopia, Shaka
3) Nuisance: Don't necessitate a change in game plan, but can mess with yours. Maybe they'll snipe a Wonder you wanted, or denounce you at an inconvenient time, but you don't really have to DO anything about them. Best example: India.
4) Nonfactor: You might not ever meet these civs, because they're dead before you get to that continent. Even if they survive, they seldom accomplish anything and can be pretty much ignored. Examples: Brazil, Venice.
TL;DR: Four categories. "Man, I've gotta do something about that guy before he wins!", "Aw hell, Monty next door.", "Shut up, Gandhi.", "Oh hey, Venice was in this game?"
1) Reliable PITA: AIs in this category are serious contenders to win the game; direct intervention will likely be necessary to stop them from running away with the game. A couple examples would be Greece for diplomatic victories and Korea for science victories.
2) Frequent Nuisance: Not usually in contention to win, but can certainly make you lose and mess with your game plan. Flipping all your cities to their religion, or attacking early and often will land a civ in this category for me. I find the warmongers force more units out early, but probably won't warrant a late-game desperation attack to stop them. Examples: Montezuma, Ethiopia, Shaka
3) Nuisance: Don't necessitate a change in game plan, but can mess with yours. Maybe they'll snipe a Wonder you wanted, or denounce you at an inconvenient time, but you don't really have to DO anything about them. Best example: India.
4) Nonfactor: You might not ever meet these civs, because they're dead before you get to that continent. Even if they survive, they seldom accomplish anything and can be pretty much ignored. Examples: Brazil, Venice.
TL;DR: Four categories. "Man, I've gotta do something about that guy before he wins!", "Aw hell, Monty next door.", "Shut up, Gandhi.", "Oh hey, Venice was in this game?"
This post made me LOL. The part about Venice anyways.
Memoryjar
Emperor
In my opinion Cathy is more dangerous for Science than Sejong.
DingleBirdy
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 27, 2014
- Messages
- 88
My list is open to change and it's based off my own experience. Feel free to critique or suggest changes.
Top Tier
Greece-Early game UU and an absolute killer with city states
Huns- Can be absolutely brutal in the early game and his uu's are still relevant up to the renaissance.
Poland- This guy gets every wonder in the book. If he's close enough, his cities aren't too hard to take, but he can run away pretty fast.
Iroquois-How such a weak user civ is used so well by the ai is beyond me. In most games he just drops like 50 cities and launches early.
Shoshone- Nobody is like, Hey, this awesome, I have Pocatello as my neighbor. He takes up huge plots of land and usually snags the great wall. Plus his stupid patherfinders and really powerful so its usually pointless to steal a worker from him.
Korea- Best science civ in the game. He stays small but he gets so far ahead in tech that it becomes and issue.
Zulu-No explanation
Middle
Assyria-They would have been a lot more deadly in G&K
Rome- Big time city spammer, but not really a science threat
Celts- Those early game warriors can be a bear, but she tapers off as the game goes on.
Cathy- Give her space and she can be really really dangerous as others have said, but her mid game blah UU makes her an easy target. She could be top tier, but I'll leave her here.
Persia- I remember when Darius was a nightmare, but that was a long time ago. He seems mostly to be a non factor now.
Carthage- She goes either way. She can be a monster with those elephants, or she can blend into the background.
Elizabeth- Corporate accounts payable, Nina speaking. Just a moment. <---I swear they used the same voice actor.
Indonesia- Kind of blah, but the fact that he can be aggressive puts him in the middle.
India-His cities can get so massive that he become a problem, but I cannot remember ever playing a game that he was a serious contender.
Mongols- I have a hard time placing them between middle and low. They immediately become so hated that its not hard to get other ai's to DOW him. He is pretty easy to subdue early on. And sometimes he just seems friendly which doesn't fit. He should be more like Shaka, but on steroids.
Sweden- He can be really tough late game with his UU and city state allying, but becoming great friends with him is just too enticing.
Ethiopia- He could go either way. Sometimes he spams cities like crazy, but other times he turtles throughout the game. Hard one to place.
Denmark-Likes to be in wars, but thats about it. Beserkers can be tough.
Arabia- He can runaway and he always has tons of oil, but for the most part he is pretty tame.
Spain- Another one that I rarely notice.
Polynesia- Can be awesome but it's map dependent.
Austria- She can be deadly if given the right map. I put her in the middle because she is neutralized on maps with of ai's that have a flavor towards city states.
Aztecs- He was so crazy in G&K, but now I don't really notice him.
France- Here is another civ I probably would have put near the top in G&K, but has now been relegated to the middle. He used to expand like crazy while teching and producing units. Now I don't know what he does. Culture?
Babylon-He's going for science. He can go here or in the top. He's really tough early game and if not stopped, he can end the game fast.
Japan-If he's a neighbor, you better have some money to send him elsewhere in the early game. Other than early wars, he doesn't do much.
Maya- Great at science, but pretty weak in the military.
Inca- This is a tough one. Their bs UA can be deadly, and they also have a tendency to take the great wall, which means wars with them are out of the question until they research dynamite. Their downfall is they don't seem aggressive enough to take advantage of their ua.
Pedro- Either her or the bottom tier. They are probably the best culture civ. They are weak militarily, but their terrain flavor is so treacherous it's usually difficult to attack them early.
Siam- He could go to the top, but I will place him in the middle. He's great with city states, and those stupid elephants are murderous. He's also good with science. He's not really weak anywhere, but I don't ever discover him on the map and say, Oh crap, I need to adjust my strategy.
Ottomans-Such a strange civ. Two land UU's with a UA for navy. Not weak nor super powerful.
America- He could be another top tier as he loves to expand like crazy, but that list is saved for the crazy ones.
Netherlands- meh
China- Another civ that can be great, but a lot of times stays passive when they should be out warmongering.
Songhai- I don't really know where to place him. He just seems like a non factor.
Low
Morocco- Easy DoF and super weak militarily
Bismark- He might be one of the easiest ai's to crush if next door.
Venice- Probably the easiest ai.
Portugal-Just all around weak.
Egypt- Spends all of his time building early game wonders and that garbage uu, but he might be the easiest civ to destroy besides Venice. He gives way too much incentive to take his capital early.
Byzantium-Weak and passive.
Top Tier
Greece-Early game UU and an absolute killer with city states
Huns- Can be absolutely brutal in the early game and his uu's are still relevant up to the renaissance.
Poland- This guy gets every wonder in the book. If he's close enough, his cities aren't too hard to take, but he can run away pretty fast.
Iroquois-How such a weak user civ is used so well by the ai is beyond me. In most games he just drops like 50 cities and launches early.
Shoshone- Nobody is like, Hey, this awesome, I have Pocatello as my neighbor. He takes up huge plots of land and usually snags the great wall. Plus his stupid patherfinders and really powerful so its usually pointless to steal a worker from him.
Korea- Best science civ in the game. He stays small but he gets so far ahead in tech that it becomes and issue.
Zulu-No explanation
Middle
Assyria-They would have been a lot more deadly in G&K
Rome- Big time city spammer, but not really a science threat
Celts- Those early game warriors can be a bear, but she tapers off as the game goes on.
Cathy- Give her space and she can be really really dangerous as others have said, but her mid game blah UU makes her an easy target. She could be top tier, but I'll leave her here.
Persia- I remember when Darius was a nightmare, but that was a long time ago. He seems mostly to be a non factor now.
Carthage- She goes either way. She can be a monster with those elephants, or she can blend into the background.
Elizabeth- Corporate accounts payable, Nina speaking. Just a moment. <---I swear they used the same voice actor.
Indonesia- Kind of blah, but the fact that he can be aggressive puts him in the middle.
India-His cities can get so massive that he become a problem, but I cannot remember ever playing a game that he was a serious contender.
Mongols- I have a hard time placing them between middle and low. They immediately become so hated that its not hard to get other ai's to DOW him. He is pretty easy to subdue early on. And sometimes he just seems friendly which doesn't fit. He should be more like Shaka, but on steroids.
Sweden- He can be really tough late game with his UU and city state allying, but becoming great friends with him is just too enticing.
Ethiopia- He could go either way. Sometimes he spams cities like crazy, but other times he turtles throughout the game. Hard one to place.
Denmark-Likes to be in wars, but thats about it. Beserkers can be tough.
Arabia- He can runaway and he always has tons of oil, but for the most part he is pretty tame.
Spain- Another one that I rarely notice.
Polynesia- Can be awesome but it's map dependent.
Austria- She can be deadly if given the right map. I put her in the middle because she is neutralized on maps with of ai's that have a flavor towards city states.
Aztecs- He was so crazy in G&K, but now I don't really notice him.
France- Here is another civ I probably would have put near the top in G&K, but has now been relegated to the middle. He used to expand like crazy while teching and producing units. Now I don't know what he does. Culture?
Babylon-He's going for science. He can go here or in the top. He's really tough early game and if not stopped, he can end the game fast.
Japan-If he's a neighbor, you better have some money to send him elsewhere in the early game. Other than early wars, he doesn't do much.
Maya- Great at science, but pretty weak in the military.
Inca- This is a tough one. Their bs UA can be deadly, and they also have a tendency to take the great wall, which means wars with them are out of the question until they research dynamite. Their downfall is they don't seem aggressive enough to take advantage of their ua.
Pedro- Either her or the bottom tier. They are probably the best culture civ. They are weak militarily, but their terrain flavor is so treacherous it's usually difficult to attack them early.
Siam- He could go to the top, but I will place him in the middle. He's great with city states, and those stupid elephants are murderous. He's also good with science. He's not really weak anywhere, but I don't ever discover him on the map and say, Oh crap, I need to adjust my strategy.
Ottomans-Such a strange civ. Two land UU's with a UA for navy. Not weak nor super powerful.
America- He could be another top tier as he loves to expand like crazy, but that list is saved for the crazy ones.
Netherlands- meh
China- Another civ that can be great, but a lot of times stays passive when they should be out warmongering.
Songhai- I don't really know where to place him. He just seems like a non factor.
Low
Morocco- Easy DoF and super weak militarily
Bismark- He might be one of the easiest ai's to crush if next door.
Venice- Probably the easiest ai.
Portugal-Just all around weak.
Egypt- Spends all of his time building early game wonders and that garbage uu, but he might be the easiest civ to destroy besides Venice. He gives way too much incentive to take his capital early.
Byzantium-Weak and passive.
DingleBirdy
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 27, 2014
- Messages
- 88
I was kind of torn where to put them. If you outlast their early game spam then they fall way way down. Being on the receiving end of their early game, grab you by the ears and throat smash you, makes me reluctant to not consider them a worthy opponent.
It all depends on policy choice. I have seen Huns go liberty patronage and own its continent and world congress. I have also seen Hun's go Honor Piety and couldn't expand over more than two cities.
I realize the two best policy trees for AIs are liberty and patronage which explains why Greece always does so well.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
I realize the two best policy trees for AIs are liberty and patronage which explains why Greece always does so well.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Hmmm, lots of people rating some of the warmongers as very high threats. I don't know if I can agree with that: overall I find they're only a problem if you play a bit too greedy or you get taken by total surprise.
Sure, they're dangerous and they're probably the single fastest "aw crap, gg" way to lose, but if you deviate from your plan & build a couple extra units instead of buildings you should be fine. If you do all right holding the push you can even retaliate and hopefully pick up a good peace settlement, which should compensate you fairly for the time deviating away from developing infrastructure.
Ask yourself: if you prepare for Shaka's sudden but inevitable betrayal, is he really anywhere near as bad to deal with as Alex, Sejong, Casimir?
Sure, they're dangerous and they're probably the single fastest "aw crap, gg" way to lose, but if you deviate from your plan & build a couple extra units instead of buildings you should be fine. If you do all right holding the push you can even retaliate and hopefully pick up a good peace settlement, which should compensate you fairly for the time deviating away from developing infrastructure.
Ask yourself: if you prepare for Shaka's sudden but inevitable betrayal, is he really anywhere near as bad to deal with as Alex, Sejong, Casimir?
The main problem with warmongers doesn't lie in an early DoW on you (which can be controlled to some extent). The problem is when they start snowballing without you being able to interfere. For instance in my last diety game, two capitals were lost on the other continent T50~ and 80~ and by the time I had researched astronomy, Shaka had settled his entire continent for a total of 37 cities (standard map size btw), with a lot more to come post navigation.
JeSuisNapoleon
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2013
- Messages
- 348
The biggest threats are the ones who own the world congress (Greece, consistently). This is really because they have an odd desire to ban luxuries, which is always bad, even when you dont have those lux. Fewer trading partners is always bad. The AI loves embargoes as well, witch is also bad for everyone.
Along the same thread is any AI who goes for the Forbidden Palace consistently. Again, because those extra votes are powerful, but also because the FP give SOOOO much for wide empires. If an early war monger (Alex) gets the FP, they are guaranteed to keep going.
after that I worry about culture runaways because they are a big problem sometimes: France, Polynesia.
France is really troublesome sometimes as they are strong in culture / tourism but also tend to have a strong military and expansionist tendencies.
Science Runaways are usually predictable:
Babylon
Korea
Russia
Along the same thread is any AI who goes for the Forbidden Palace consistently. Again, because those extra votes are powerful, but also because the FP give SOOOO much
for wide empires. If an early war monger (Alex) gets the FP, they are guaranteed to keep going.after that I worry about culture runaways because they are a big problem sometimes: France, Polynesia.
France is really troublesome sometimes as they are strong in culture / tourism but also tend to have a strong military and expansionist tendencies.
Science Runaways are usually predictable:
Babylon
Korea
Russia
ravenmagus
Warlord
I personally hate having Japan as a nearby ally; the Japan UA really helps out the typical AI melee unit swarm and an early attack with a ton of warriors can actually hurt.
Carthage sucks too - DIdo's always super willing to stab you in the back, even if you have a DoF going. More of an annoyance than anything though...
Yes and no; Deity AI is usually swimming in giant lakes of happiness anyways.
Egypt UU is really amazing ... if only the AI knew how to use it.
Carthage sucks too - DIdo's always super willing to stab you in the back, even if you have a DoF going. More of an annoyance than anything though...
Along the same thread is any AI who goes for the Forbidden Palace consistently. Again, because those extra votes are powerful, but also because the FP give SOOOO much
Yes and no; Deity AI is usually swimming in giant lakes of happiness anyways.
Egypt UU is really amazing ... if only the AI knew how to use it.
Except Babylon is piss poor in using its amazing UA. There are times when I'm already at Civil Service and ol' Nebby still has to research Writing. They also don't plant their Scientists, leading to even bigger problems. His AI is just so unfocussed.
On the lattest Deity CV GOTM, she actually bought 3 or 4 CS before T200 and made me lost the game
Maybe she turns to do it more when she is at war?
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