QSC-C2e - Hannabaline & the 300 Spartans - Emperor

Here's my timeline and saves for turns 100, 110, 120
(And yes, I was waiting patiently for Cracker's turn 90 table)

[91] -750 : We Master Math and Philosophy.
[92] -730 : Our horse is riding over to Corinth :p
[95] -670 : Ack!!! With our horse ONE TURN from meeting Greece, the clueless Iroquois
FINALLY have contact with them, and the Chinese. :rolleyes:
[97] -630 : We contact Greeks ourselves. They also have contact with Germans. Everyone
has all contacts. No one lacks tech. When I master a new tech I'll trade for contact.
[99] -590 : IBT The Iro declare war on the Aztecs!! Sweet!! That will draw the big green
army up north, and I'll get to munch on the tender underbelly shortly!
Also IBT Lincoln establishes an embassy :p
[100] -570 : All our lands are fully improved, Utica is size 6, when 7 I'll add a worker
back in and shoot for 10spt there. Our military is now: 7 Hoplites, 4 Sword, 4 Horse.
The Aztecs are toast. We'll take from 3 to 5 cities, and the Iro will eat the rest.
The only real issue - I don't want a despotic GA. The WHOLE point of waiting this long
AND of getting the GL was to go to our first war when we revolt to a new govt. *SAVE*

[103] -510 : Largest nations of the world: China, Iro, Greeks, Germans, Aztecs, Amer,
Persians, Carthage.
[104] -490 : We add a native worker to Utica, letting slaves keep doing labor. Corruption
is higher than I like, so we swap to a courthouse.
[106] -450 : I just notice a nasty little problem. Aztecs keep whipping their cities
near me down to size one 8-\ And no culture of course, meaning they're auto-raze
sites, or if they manage to grow, very unhappy sites. Sigh.
[IBT] We master Republic and Construction, woo!!! Revolt now? Sure! Time: 1 turn!!
Ye-haw! We got a 'min' value of 2, cut off one for revolting immediately at tech,
partly due to the fact our empire is so small. We'll soon be ready to fight!
[107] -430 : Aztec worker for sale for WM+24g. Persia lacks Republic, Greeks lack both.
I give Persians Rep for both communications, WM+65(all) gold. Germany is rather
backwards and I give them Math for their WM. To speed up research a bit, I give
Republic to all the other civs for whatever pittance they can pay.
[109] -390 : Texcoco hits size 2. Time is too short, in fact I've probably waited too
long as far as QSC is concerned. I need now as many cities as possible in the last
11 turns. I'm going to need to hit two civs, not just one. Persia has a city very
near us, with their others quite far away, and they're weaker than America.

We declare war on the Aztecs, honorably, then move up into position. Trying to use
only as many troops as needed, we pull some over toward west and Persia. (IBT) Nada.
[110] -370 : At Calix, reg sword beats spear and promotes, vet sword beats spear and promotes
to elite. Unfortunately, city is autorazed. At Teo, vet horse retreats, then a vet
sword loses 8-| Insuffificient force to continue. At Texcoco, one horse treats,
another wins after turning red. Vet sword loses to reg spear. 8-|
Our Hoplite presses on vs the hurt spear and wins, setting off our Golden Age.
Hmm, there's a jaggie left underneath. Feeling too bold now, we declare war on
Persia. We capture two workers off the bat. Our horses hit Antioch. One wins vs
reg spear, one loses - promoting it. Another horse rides out of Carthage and wins,
put again, there's a warrior underneath preventing the city capture. We add an
American worker to Utica and can easily get 20spt now in GA. (Making 30 shield units,
however. May need to add another, we'll see after courthouse is done next turn.)
Carthage is at 30spt :) *SAVE* (IBT) Nothin'
[111] -350 : Vet horse hits Texcoco, which has a newly whipped spear. We win. Then
a UU battle, our Merc vs the Jag. We win, capture the city AND the settler within :p
At Antioch, elite horse beats the warrior, and we capture the city, claiming horses.
Four workers captured. Utica adds another American. At Tlatelolco we lose a horse
and win one. A spear left.
[112] -330 : Healing and moving.
[113] -310 : At Teo, horse goes red immediately, but comes back to win. Second wins,
but there's a third spear. We have one more healed horse who goes, and wins. That
city had culture and is captured. It's barracks is intact. Just opposite the city
was an archer and settler moving up (but we can't reach them).
Carthage hits size 12 and we peel off a settler (1 turn) Utica goes the other
way, adding unhappy Persian workers to hit 30spt. With both size 12 anyway, our
lux slider is at 20% anyway, so we can handle this unhappiness for now. They'll
assimilate later, right?! :p
(IBT) lots of movement! A persian archer attacks our sword in the open and promotes
him :p That Aztec archer-settler move OFF a mountain next to our troops. And
a Persian settler pair heads to the old site of Calix, where our new settler will go.
[114] -290 : Fortunately we can still hit 30spt with Carthage as size 10. We whack the
Aztec archer-settler. At Tlatelolco a vet horse loses to reg spear, then an elite
one captures the city. There are a few Aztec archers loose nearby. We pop both.
(IBT) We master Polytheism. Great Lighthouse completed by Persia.
[115] -270: Vet sword barely wins and promotes vs spear at Arbela. Vet hoplite defeats
a Persian horse in the open. Just outside the Aztec capital we find an archer-settler
begging for our horse to get him. We comply for two more workers. We had not intended
to push all the way to their capital, but with resistance so light... we send out
a pair of vet swords to join the horses :hammer:
By our capital vet sword defeats the spear-settler pair. Two more workers.
Our settler was planning to take old Calix site, but instead we'll do two cities,
one closer, one further.
(IBT) Persia wants to talk peace, but won't offer anything. We'll take Arbela then
see, soon enough. Aztecs hit our forward horse with an archer, winning but exposed.
China start Great Wall. China completes Great Wall in Nanking? (Great Leader??)

[116] -250 : We hit that archer and kill him. Another horse loses at Teno.
Abe has currency, so when someone else gets it, we'll be in Middle Ages.
A Persian warr had sailed up to Tlatelolco, so we take it out with a horse.
At Arbela we lose a vet horse but two elite swords take the city.
With wars about to end and the people of Carthage yearning to expand further,
we pause for a settler from both Utica and Carthage.
(IBT) There's currency, we're in Middle Ages. Score has been spiking up, with power,
and our culture (due to the wonders) is tops in the world. Silly world ranking lists
us last however. We get the 'Forbidden Palace' msg.
[117] -230 : Elite horse picks off a stray Aztec archer. (Still no leaders, boo)
We move a large stack up to Teno. Leptis Magna is founded on the SE edge, coastal,
next to the iron. Theveste is founded on a disease ridden flood plain NW of Utica.
[118] -210 : Horse fails to soften Teno, retreating. Elite sword wins, no leader.
(We would probably rush our FP right there in Teno if we got one :p ) Hoplite
defeats a spear. Now just an archer left. Hmmm, use our wounded elite horse? Sure.
Still no ldr, but the city is ours. Hmmm, an archer on the back side. All we can do
is pull another 1hp horse into the city to keep it from falling.
With Tenochititlan in hand, Aztecs have just two more cities. May as well take one
right now for peace. Oh??? They have TWO? One is on a remote island next to a
German city?! We'll need to rush a hoplite there next turn.
[119] -190 : Both cities celebrate peace by popping a settler and starting a marketplace.
First things first, we blow 240 cash to rush a Hoplite in each tribute town.
BTW, we have a 'strong military' compared to every civ on the planet except avg vs
China. We found Hippo on the horses SE of Carthage. Back near Arbela, elite sword
beats a loose Persian horse. Two elite swords climb the mtn to Susa.
(IBT) Sweet, just in time. We master Monotheism from the Great library :p
[120] -170 : The last turn...
Leptis Minor founded to claim iron and be a mini-worker town. Similarly Sabratha.
The attack on Susa... STILL no leader, but we do win both and capture it.
Now it's time for peace. He gives Susa and all his gold (wasn't willing to part
with wonder city Pasargarde). As a symbolic gesture, we then buy a worker from him
and add him into Carthage, for we are benevolent... not a Genghis! :hammer:

Our power and score are now highest of any civ, although ranking score is low. Culture
remains dominant. Carthage is the 'top' city. We've gone from 2 to 17 cities in the
last 11 turns. We're ranking number one in *everything* except mil service and disease :D

America only has six cities and a weak military, and the Iro were actually hurt badly
by the Green machine. This continent is easily mine to take. And with the short channel
crossing not requiring Navigation, this game will be a quick domination win.
It should score highly in QSC as well due to the Pyramids. That was the plan from the
start, to have two uber cities cranking out a war machine fueled by the Great Library
that would capture towns, directly or in tribute, which would each have a granary.
One strat that might have worked much better would be to build a strong core and
military and *capture* the Pyramids. But if the other continent did so, you're stuck.
(Note - these comments are BEFORE seeing other people's last turn uploads and notes.
After looking at turn 90 though, I have the feeling I'll be dead last and Justus
will be on top - I look forward to reading the final notes)



Turn 100
Turn 110
Turn 120

I'll comment more on what I was trying, and why it didn't quite work out as well as hoped, after seeing other results. OTOH, I do have the Great Library and the Pyramids, and basically have STOPPED all research from now until my Knight domination later.

Thanks,
Charis
 
650 BC - War with America starts, We capture New York.

610 BC - Washington captured.

570 BC Saved Game

550 BC - Great Library finishes.

490 BC - Boston destroyed, America is no more.

390 BC - War with Persia.

370 BC - Destroy Tarsus.

370 BC Saved Game

350 BC - Susa is destroyed.

230 BC - Capture Pasargadae.

170 BC Saved Game

Within a couple of turns I will cature the Persia capital which has both the Colossus and the Great Lighthouse. The Aztecs have the Great Pyramids and the Iroquois built the Great Wall for me.
 
Before going to next turn: After reviewing my last set of turns and my situation, I adjusted production in a few cities: Oea switched from Temple to Harbor, Sabratha switched from Harbor to Spartan, and NY switched from Courthouse to Settler.

Tenth Set of 10 turns
750 Nothing produced, but I pay 228g to rush temple in Washington. I see a Persian settler moving north with a spear toward the former site of Boston, and an Aztec settler heading south. I was going to invade Persia next, so I decide to risk war early rather than wait for them to settle, I threaten them to leave and they declare war. I also up science to 60%, will have currency in 5 turns, at +30 gpt.
730 Persia mustn’t have taken me seriously, a second settler w/warrior moves N of Susa. Iroquois finishes the Oracle, starts a cascade. Persia is building Pyramids and Great Library, with only 4 cities, looks like this will be easy. Washington completes Temple, starts on a Courthouse, Utica and Sabratha produce Spartans, and both Leptis’ finish settlers, changing to Libraries. I quickly take out the Persian settlers, my elite sword kills the warrior, losing 2hp, and a spartan kills the spearman, losing 1. I now have 4 more slaves, which I set to work building roads near my future cities (the old Boston and Philly sites). The Greeks settled a new city (Delphi) on the coast just as my galley approaches, looks like I am headed to the mountains S of Germany, where I also see a barb camp.
710 Not much happens, I land my settler and spartan in hills SW of Berlin. I am using my other galley to ferry workers to the smaller island, where they can then be picked up by the first one and transported to the continent. My swordsmen are moving on Susa.
690 Theveste finishes Courthouse, starts on Library, Oea finishes Harbor, starts a Galley. A quick check shows no new trade options, why can’t the AI figure out how to build a harbor? My settler founds Cirta SW of Berlin, the Spartan kills a barb horse, losing 1hp. Germany expels my warrior, who was trying to move S to link up w/Cirta, actually pops him out on the southern border, but he is furious, so I give him Literature, to bring him back to annoyed. Persia sends an Archer out from Susa, inflicts 1hp on my sword, but dies.
670 Utica, Sabratha pop out Spartans, Sabratha switches to a Sword. I capture another barb slave, load 2 more on my galley. I launch my assault on Susa, first vet is killed by a spear, who loses 2hp but is promoted. Second vet kills the second spear. My elite then finishes off the wounded spear, and Susa is mine! I start on temple. The Aztecs now have 2 settlers moving south through my territory, I don’t want to risk a war right now, and my settlers have a slight lead, especially if I can delay his a little. Montezuma, who had been polite for the first couple of millennia, is now annoyed, so I sell him construction for the paltry sum of wm+14g, and even gift him 1gpt, to buy some goodwill, but no sign of change. Our Spice deal will be up in 5 turns, but by then Susa should be able to connect to the spice in the forest, and I won’t need the Aztec spice. Still, I’m not ready for a two-front war.
650 Currency! I enter the Middle Ages, and start on Feudalism at 10%, +82gpt. My palace expands again. I pillage the Persian’s last source of Incense, more as an annoyance. I change Leptis Minor back to another settler. My Spartan near Cirta disbands the barb camp for 25g.
630 I spend 28g to rush a settler from NY, and 232 to rush the temple at Susa. My first settler arrives and founds Nora S of the old Boston site, starts on Temple. My army is moving along the road W to Pasargadae.
610 NY and Leptis Minor complete Settlers, Susa finishes the Temple and starts on Courthouse, Utica gets a Spartan and Sabratha a Sword, both start on Spartans. I capture another slave on Slave Island. My second settler founds Rusaddir 4N of Washington, which fills in an open area, the Aztec settlers turn around after this turn.
590 Oea finishes a Galley, starts on another, to explore this coast and look for any signs of islands. I build Sulcis 3S of New York. I attack Pasargadae, my first vet sword kills a spear, losing 3hp, my elite attacks the second spear and dies, inflicting 1hp, my next vet sword kills off the spear, and the city is mine. I start on a temple. I am now down to 4 vet swords, with a couple of regulars coming over from Susa, but I do have 3-4 Spartans in the area. I don’t want to stall out before I take Persepolis. China lands a settler on the small island SW of Greece.
570 Hippo finishes Courthouse, starts on a Library, the resistance in Pasargadae ends, working on a temple. I rush a temple in Cirta for some culture, for 216g. I switch Theveste to Marketplace, done in 2. My workers are roading and irrigating throughout the American and former Persian lands. I bring science up to 80%, Feudalism is due in 8 turns, with +7gpt. I establish an embassy with Germany, they are at war with the Greeks. Berlin is working on a settler, pop 4, no buildings. I give Germany Mathematics, my plan is to gift either Greece or Germany up to the Middle Ages, while holding back the optional techs, then use them to get Monotheism when they get it for free, unless Persia gets there first.
End of tenth set of ten turns: I now have 4 workers and about 20 slaves, 3 warriors left, 8 swords, 14 spartans and 3 galleys, and a total of 19 cities. Feudalsim is 8 turns away, the Pyramids are done in 4.
I have 24 gold, making 7/turn at 2.8.0, and a score of 568. My rivals are as follows: China 411, 12 cities, Iroq. 328, 7 cities, Aztecs 318, 7 cities, Germans 220, 3 cities, Greeks 216, 5 cities, and Persians 211, 2 cities. All are annoyed except Germany, who is polite, and Persia, who is at war.

Eleventh Set of 10 turns
550 Cirta finishes the temple, Utica and Sabratha finish Spartans, both switch to library. Aztecs have monarchy, so its time to shop it around, China is the only one with money, they will pay 50g and wm. I also trade Aztecs incence, for 9g and wm, this was a mistake, I wasn’t thinking but I would be attacking them in less than 20 turns. My rep was already pretty bad, no one would do gpt deals, either way. I was trying to look back, I vaguely remember giving Lincoln a 1gpt gift, maybe it wasn’t expired when I attacked. Anyway, too late to worry about it now, besides, sooner or later they will all be furious with me!
530 Lost spices, but Susa’s culture expands, perfect timing, I now have my own spice. Theveste finishes a market, starts on library. I send an extra spartan to Carthage to keep the peace. Workers start to cut two forests near Susa, toward a courthouse.
510 The Battle of Persepolis: First vet loses 2hp before killing a spear, second loses 1hp and kills his, finally the third loses an hp, becomes Elite, and finishes the final spear. I now have Persepolis, and the Colossus! Unfortunately, corruption is so bad, that it is all wasted. I start on a library, may eventually buy a courthouse too, but not now. I make a peace deal with Persia, but they have nothing to offer. I make a mistake, I give them currency, but they will not sell me Monotheism (duh!) they’re still furious. So I pay 43g to get an embassy in Athens, they are building Pyramids (right, in 43 turns), and have a barracks. I give them Code of Law, Polytheism, and Currency, and voila’, they now have monotheism. I put together a package of ROP, Literature, Monarchy and 3 gpt, and they give me Monotheism. I’n not usually a big fan of ROPs, I get paranoid, but they are on another continent, and besides it looks like I am going to have to build their road network for them if I want to trade. While I am at it, I trade Germany MapMaking for an ROP. Iroquois are already in the middle ages, Aztecs are not. Looks like they will be my next target. There is still a gap of territory between their capital and their southern city, so I switch Leptis Minor to a settler, maybe I can squeeze in there and build a base.
490 Carthage completes the Pyramids! Start on market, done in 4. Oea finishes another galley. I sell off the granary in Carthage. The Aztec borders expanded, just after I had my great idea, so I switch Leptis back to library. I board a spartan on the galley near Cadiz, and send all my swords and some spartans from Persia to Leptis Magna. Time to go after the Aztecs before they get Feudalism.
470 Greeks and Iroquois both land settlers on Slave Island, just as I am loading the last one on a galley, they can have the land, I got all the workers! The first few boatloads have landed and are building roads from Cirta to the germans, these last few will land near Delphi to build roads connecting the Greeks to the Germans, so I can trade with both. Saldae is founded between Pasargadae and Susa, near the wheat, filling in the last major gap in my half of the continent, starts on a courthouse. I back science down to 50%, feudalism in 3 +41gpt.
450 Leptis Magna finishes the library, starts on a market. The Aztecs complete the Great Library in Tenochitlan, Beijing cascades and finishes the Hanging Gardens, everyone else is building the Great Wall or Lighthouse. This was significant, but it didn’t quite hit me yet.
430 Hippo finishes library, switches to market. I finally need an entertainer in Carthage, as pop hits 10. I now drop science to 40%, still finish next turn, +64 gold.
410 I now understand Feudalism, start immediately on Chivalry, scheduled for 14 turns. Carthage finishes the Market, now everyone can go back to work, I start building Sun Tzu, done in 22 turns. Utica and Theveste finishe librarys, switches to horse, Oae finishes a spartan, starts on library. Rusiddar finishes a spartan, starts another. The Golden Age is officially over, but I had a good run. I pump science up to 70%, Chivalry will be done in 9, but only plus 5gpt. Sun Tzu is now scheduled to take 28 turns, still acceptable, especially since the cascades should be finishing soon, so no one else will have a head start.
370 Sabratha finishes library, also starts horse. Workers clear forest near Cirta, will be rushing a harbor soon. China gives me 30g and wm for an ROP.
End of eleventh set of ten turns: I still have 4 workers and about 20 slaves, 2 warriors left, 9 swords, 18 spartans and 4 galleys, and a total of 21 cities, my score is 688. My rivals are as follows: China 472, 13 cities, Iroq. 358, 9 cities, Aztecs 349, 7 cities, Germans 237, 4 cities, Greeks 237, 6 cities, and Persians 201, 1 cities. Aztecs are cautious (as well they should be), Iroquois is annoyed, the three on the other continent are all polite, and Persia is still furious.
 
Twelfth Set of 10 turns
350 Before I start, I switch Leptis Magna to sword, and Oea to Spartans. I drop tech back to 50%, Chivalry back to 9 turns, but +19 gpt, I figure it won’t do much good to get the tech and not have any money for upgrades. I am still moving forces toward the Leptis’, in position to strike the Aztecs. I had been hoping to wait for Chivalry, but as I looked back over my notes, it sinks in that the Aztecs have the Great Library. That means that I don’t just have to beat them before they get Feudalism, I have to beat them before ANYONE gets Feudalism. That, and the fact that I can drop to 0 research once I have it and catch up on some gold, makes me decide to attack them ASAP.
330 Utica, Theveste finish horses, Rusicade finishes courthouse, starts on Spartan. I pay 236g to hurry the harbor at Cirta, I am connected to Germany, time to start trading.
310 Cirta finishes the harbor, I can trade! Germany has dye, but I am going to wait until I take care of some other things first. Iroquois finished the Great Wall. I am ready so I declare war on the Aztecs, capture 2 slaves near Tlatelolco. Also, the two hoplites land on the north coast, to pillage his northern iron source. Another Spartan from Leptis moves to pillage the southern source, just in case he gets Feudalism from the GL during the war. Now I return to diplomacy, and I can’t trade with Germany??? It says I need a sea route? I haven’t had this happen before, but I finally figure out, since I can only make coastal trades, the Aztec cultural borders are blocking my route to Germany!! They extend across the coast on both sides of the continent. I adjust my plans, Tlatelolco will have to be one of my early targets now.
290 Oea finishes Spartan. My swords and spartans are moving in towards Tenochitlan. I start moving some horsemen and a couple of straggler swords toward Tlatelolco.
270 Leptis Minor finishes library, which should help culture near the front, and starts on Spartan. Sabratha builds horse. An Aztec swordsman from Tenochitlan kills one of my spartans!
250 Leptis Magna completes a sword, Utica and Theveste finish horses. Time for the main attack, my first vet loses 3hp but kills a spearman. My second is killed, but wounds his spear twice. My elite sword loses 4hp before killing the wounded spear. I have to send in another sword against a wounded swordsman, but I am victorious. Tenochitlan and the Great Library are mine! Now I notice a strange thing, I can trade with Greece, but not Germany. Aztec culture still blocks the coastal waters. I am really puzzled, until I realize the Greeks have built their own harbor. Apparently the culture blocks me from trading with my own harbor, since I am at war, but the Greeks can trade, since they are not? The Germans are connected to Cirta, but not to Greece yet. Strange, but I’ll take it. They will trade me Wine for Horses, Ivory, Incence and wm. It seems like robbery, but for a new luxury (my fifth) it is worth it. I also start sending workers to build roads connecting Greece with Germany, and also connecting Cirta with China, just in case.

Between turns, the Aztecs launch a counterattack, jag warriors kill 2 of my swords and capture a worker near Theveste. Also, an archer takes out another of my swords. I shouldn’t have moved all the spartans into Tenochitlan, but I wanted to quell the resistance as fast as I could. They will pay for this.

230 One swordsman takes out a jag, becomes elite. A spartan finishes off the archer, and a horse from Utica kills the jag that stole my worker, but the worker is gone. A spartan finishes off the last jag, becomes elite. One of these turns, don't remember which one, I use a captured Aztec slave to build a colony on the spices SW of Teo. Didn't need them, I already have them from Persian lands, but it is an instant road that connects the city, should help reduce unrest with the luxuries coming in.
210 Hippo finishes market, starts on horse. My people expand my palace again. I attack Tlatelolco, regular sword kills one spear, becomes vet, then a vet horse loses 3hp before withdrawing, knocking 1hp off his spear. Another horse attacks and loses 3hp before killing his spear, and finally another horse kills his last spear, capturing the city. I was right, the culture border is gone, and now I can trade with Germany! I offer iron, horses, and currency for Dye. I hate to equip the Germans, of all people, like that, but they are on another continent, and Cirta is pretty defensible, surrounded by mountains, so I think I am safe. Besides, if they attack me, they lose their resources.
190 I learn the secrets of Republic from the Great Library. This is decision time, do I push to finish Chivalry before the QSC ends, or hold off so I can do more upgrades. I have three cities finishing horses next turn (4 after I mm Sabratha). If I leave things as they are, I will finish Chivalry next turn, but only have the money to upgrade 2 horses, and those 4 cities will switch to knights. If I wait, I will have more horses, and more money to upgrade with. I decide to hold off, and drop science to 30%, getting Chivalry in 2 turns, but going to +43 gold.
170 Hadrumenten builds a courthouse. Utica, Theveste, Sabratha, and Rusicade all finish horses. I have 269 gold, and can drop science to 20% and still finish, giving me 65 more gold, enough for 4 upgrades at Utica. Teoutican should fall the turn after. Carthage will finish Sun Tzu in 14 turns.

End of Twelfth set of ten turns: I still have 4 workers and 24+ slaves, 2 warriors left (at Cirta), 5 swords, 10 horses, 18 spartans and 4 galleys. I have a total of 23 cities, my score is 817. My rivals are as follows: China 531, 13 cities, Iroq. 392, 9 cities, Aztecs 370, 4 cities, Greeks 263, 6 cities, Germans 237, 4 cities, and Persians 189, 1 city. Aztecs are at war, Iroquois is annoyed, the three on the other continent are all polite, and Persia is still furious.

The Glorious Kingdom of Hannabaline, 170BC

 
Some comments on the other timelines posted:

Hotrod: Sounds like the other continent was far mor advanced than in my game, any idea why that was? I practically had to drag them into the middle ages, yet they were there and had a couple of techs by the same timeframe (actually earlier, 710BC) in your game. Did one of them get the Great Library, or Colossus? You made contact much earlier with them, IIRC, maybe the trading helped them advance though the ancient age quicker?

Charis: I was wondering what the 2-city strategy was, but 15 cities in one block of turns is fast. Definitely increased the value of the Pyramids. Also, you are getting much more value from the Great Library, I captured it in time to get probably 3-4 techs, especially since I wanted to research Chivalry myself. I have a couple of questions though, does it always save a turn if you revolt from the box on discovering a tech? I wondered if that made a difference, but thought maybe it was just my imagination. If so, I probably cost myself a turn this game. Also, is it empire size that determines the length of anarchy, and if so is there a way to predict it? I know the earlier I did it the shorter it seemed, I thought it was related to time/tech/ maybe size, maybe random, and maybe just my imagination that I am more impatient with a large empire ;)
Timing the GA and government change is always one of my most difficult decisions in the ancient age (when I have an ancient UU), but I really think too much of the GA is wasted in despotism. Also

Meldor: Capturing the Lighthouse is more useful than the colossus I think, unless you are going to put an FP down there, the colossus was corrupted away to nothing in my game. The lighthouse will help in exploring for islands though. Even though the other civs can be reached without astronomy/GLH, I could only access 6 luxuries, I'm guessing the other two are hidden on some deserted islands like the Slave Island. Lighthouse would help to find them.
 
ok reposting my fourth timeline ...

** FOURTH REPORT START **

0750 bc 1
Tenochtitlan builds the great wall. Carthage puts out another Hoplite. Sci > 80% Construction in 10t

0730 bc 2
I take a look inside america, and is asked to leave. I leave.

0710 bc 3
Nothing much happens. So Monty doesn't want to sell me Construction but a few turns later he has sold it to everyone (that had nothing good). Gotta love them foreign aid packages the AI sends to eachother.

Trade:
[Ame] Construction + WMap + 3 = Ivory + Philosophy
[Azt] Spices = Philosophy + 10g + Ivory (not so good deal, but i need the happiness)

Sci > 100% Feudalism in 14t (-4 gpt : 304 in hold)

0690 bc 4
Made a misstake there to lower luxery, riot in Carthage. But the people love me anyway and build me a small hut.

0670 bc 5
Leptis Minor|Carthage builds Hoplites.

0650 bc 6
nothing but movement.

0630 bc 7
Utica builds Hoplite.

0610 bc 8
Sabratha|Rusicade|Carthage builds hoplite.

0590 bc 9
A look reveals that the Iroquois knows three other civs.

0570 bc A
Athens builds the Pyramids

** SAVE: flexo_QSC_C2e_bc0570.sav **

0550 bc 1
Carthage|Hippo builds hoplites.

0530 bc 2
nothing.

0510 bc 3
Oea|Leptis Minor builds hoplites.

Iroqouis start building Great Library so time to sell it before it becomes completely worthless.

Trade:
[Azt] Litterature > 53g + world map
[Ame] Litterature > 24g + world map

0490 bc 4
Carthage builds hoplite. Magna culture expands. I declare WAR with America after they refuse to give me free lux.

0470 bc 5
Utica|Theveste builds hoplite. Lux > 80%.

Attack on Boston: (attacker vs defender)
Swordman (0/3) vs Spearman (1/3) - loss
Swordman (1/3) vs Spearman (0/3) - win
Spartan (1/4) vs Spearman (0/1) - win > ** GOLDEN AGE **
Spartan (0/3) vs Warriror (1/3) - loss
Spartan (2/4) vs Warrior (0/3) - win
Spartan (1/4) vs Warrior (0/1) - win > ** ELITE **

Capture Boston, Capture two Settlers (or was it one settler, two workers, I didn't see). New american workers move up to cut down the jungle around Leptis Minor.

0450 bc 6
Persepolis builds the great lighthouse. Sci > 100% Engineering in 11t. Rusicade builds Hoplite.

Going out on a limb here: Leptis Magna change TGL > Sun Tzu. (TGL finished in one, Sun Tzu in 20t).

I could score some easy point by building the library, but I don't really need it. We are already in the second age. All I will get from it would be mon+rep+mono+cav+the+education. Out of which I really only need Cav to rule the world (i hope). If I switch to Sun Tzu I get veterans and one turn healing all over the continent (once it is mine). I could probably finish the TGL and still manage to build Sun Tzu. But if I change now I'll get it sooner.

0430 bc 7
Carthage builds Hoplite. Upgrade what I think is my last warrior (found standing guard in Leptis Magna).

0410 bc 8
The people love me and build a second floor on my hut. Sabratha build hoplite.

Outside Boston:
Swordman (1/3) attack American Warrior (0/3) - win
Spartan (2/5) attack Archer (0/3) - win
Spartan (1/4) attack Archer (0/3) - win

0390 bc 9
Carthage in Riot! as it moved to size 10. Oea builds worker

0370 bc A
Carthage|Leptis Minor builds Hoplite



** SAVE: flexo_QSC_C2e_bc0370.sav **


0350 bc 1
Utica|Rusicade builds hoplite. Hadrumetum rush temple (1 citizen).

Swordman (1/3) - Archer (0/3) outside Boston. > Veteran

0330 bc 2
Hopelite defends himself outside Boston > Veteran promo.

Carthage build hoplite. Haderumetum builds temple.

Battle of Philly'
Swordman (0/3) - Spearman (1/3) - loss > Veteran
Spartan (2/4) - Spearman (0/3) - win
Spartan (0/4) - Spearman (2/2V) - loss
Spartan (0/3) - Spearman (1/2V) - loss > Elite
Spartan (0/4) - Spearman (1/2E) - loss
Spartan (3/3) - Spearman (0/1E) - win
Capture Philadelphia.

That was a slaughter I hadn't hoped for. Stupid american spearman sure did manage to hang in there.

0310 bc 3
Theveste builds hoplite.

0290 bc 4
Forest choped at Oea. We lost our (aztec) spice supply. Carthage|Hippo builds hoplites.

Swordman (3/4) attack Archer (0/3) outside Philly - win

Attack on the american capital.
Spartan (4/5) - Spearman (0/3) - Win
Spartan (2/4) - Spearman (0/3) - Win
Spartan (0/4) - Spearman (2/3) - Loss
Spartan (3/4) - Spearman (0/2) - Win
Spartan (0/3) - Warrior (3/3) - Loss
Spartan (0/3) - Warrior (2/3) - Loss

CrAP! I didn't manage to take the city. Not good. Please don't let him have a barrack in town.

0270 bc 5
Resistance in Philadelphia has ended. Riot in Leptis Minor|Sabratha. Bring Lux > 10% to try and prevent further war riots.

Spartan (2/5) kills warrior (0/4)
Spartan (2/4) kills spearman (1/3)
Washington has fallen to the Spartan Hoplites. Liberate 1gp. Capture one settler. I use one of the workers to build a colony in the mountains.

0250 bc 6
Carthage|Sabratha|Rusicade hopelite. Washington resistance come to a quick end. Sci > 60%.

0230 bc 7
Sci > 90% (Invention in 14t) (-6gpt 258g treasury). Utica|Leptis Minor builds Hoplite.

Trade:
[Azt] Engineering > Spice, 3 contacts, WM, 30g
[Gre] Engineering > WM + 81g + 6gpt

The new civs had monoteism and republic. But they want Feudalism for it. Fearing a wonder cascade i'll hold it.

Spartan (0/3) attack Spearman (3/3) by Rusicade, dies and enemy gets veteran promo.
Spartan (0/3) attack spearman (3/4) and dies. PHUCK!
Spartan (3/3) attack spearman (0/4) - Victory! Finally.

0210 bc 8
Carthage builds hoplite. Movement with my hoplites to close in on New York.

0190 bc 9
Nanking in China builds the Great Library.

Battle for New York
Swordman (0/4) - Spearman (1/3) - Loss
Spartan (2/4) - Spearman (0/3) - Win
Spartan (3/3) - Warrior (0/3) - Win
Spartan (4/4) - Spearman (0/1) - Win

New York razed (crap! didn't want that). Capture 3 workers and one settler. Leptis Minor change to Settler and Hurry it (1 citizen).
Americans are not wiped out. I Wonder where they are?

Spartan (3/3) defends from a archer (3/3) attack
Archer (1/3) kills named Spartan.

170 bc A
Carthage builds Hoplite. Leptis Minor builds Settler.
Spartan (3/4) kills Archer (1/3).

** SAVE : flexo_QSC_C2e_bc0170.sav **
** FOURTH REPORT COMPLETE **
** END OF QSC2 Q2E **

Game over. No domination. I thought I had wiped the Americans here but apparently they had managed to escape with a settler on a galley. I continue to play for domination but not having such a detailed timeline.

No last screenshot but it was basically the same as 370bc except I had taken Philadelphia and Washington, accidentally razed New York.

For the interested the future conquest order was Persia > Aztec > Iroquois > Greek > German > Greek (didn't manage to completely finish the off).


Report 4 save files
 
The other continent lagged in tech until I changed Great library to Sun Tzu, the library was built a few turns later by the chinese. This might have been a reason why the ai:s took alot longer to smack down later.

I built lots of spartans. Why? Well I thought they had ok attack stats, great defence. An all in one troop. Sure they are more expensive than swordmen but they didn't take longer to produce (in most cities it took as long to create them as a swordman or a horseman) so i built my army of them until I was nearing chivalry when I switched to nearly all horseman (later upgraded to knights). The extra attack point of the swordman might have helped me out, but for some reason I didn't go down that road.

@Charis,
Most impressive city explosion in the end. I'd be looking forward to reading what was your master plan.
 
Very limited 'timeline' for these turns, as the flu has made getting to the computer difficult, but I wanted to upload the saves to not slow down cracker's final calculations.

775 to 570 BC:

Aztecs start the Pyramids. Leader sent back to Carthage, as it is defensible, and we leader-build the Pyramids there in 710 BC as I won't have a good FP location for a while. Polytheism is discovered and Monarchy is researched at max. Persians build the Colossus, and start the Great Lighthouse. X-man treads too heavily on my cultural boundaries and I prepare to obliterate him.

Leptis Minor, Sabratha founded.

570 to 370 BC:

510 BC War declared on Persia. Arbela and Susa captured on next turn, along with many foreign workers. Pasagardae autorazed due to size and culture. Rusicade founded on former Pasagardae site. Aztecs get communications with Greeks and Germans, and the tech lead- after trading it becomes clear that they alone possess Currency. I get into a decent position by shopping Polytheism, which no one else has, around, getting communications and maps. Monty is now in the Middle Ages, but lacks governmental tech- he's either researching Republic or waiting for someone else, as Polytheism went for a good price. We will have Monarchy in 3 turns, and hopefully the Gardens soon after. I might wait to revolt, as the Persian archers near Hippo might trigger a GA I don't want.

370 BC to 170 BC:

Persians do indeed trigger the GA, and I decline to renew the peace treaty with Abe. He only has archers, which will slow my worker development until my swords return from their successful assault on Persepolis, capturing the Colossus. X-man has nothing useful to give me, so I wait on peace. I revolt immediately when I get Monarchy, not wanting to waste the GA on despotism with scattered cities... drawing 4 turns of anarchy! :D Neo-Carthage becomes a Monarchy in 250 BC. Great wonders started in Carthage and Theveste, as no one else is building, providing a good window of opportunity to grab some. Galley with American settler on it destroyed in 190 BC, eliminating Abe from contention. The other continent is now in the Middle Ages, and Monotheism is held by 3 civs, making it good to buy when I get the gold. No one has Literature- I might pick it up for trade value after I get Feudalism, but with domination as the goal it's best to leave it as both Germany and Greece would get cheap Libraries and faster tech, making them more difficult to conquer. We have three luxuries, with a fourth online as soon as New York expands culturally, and are currently selling Ivory to the Aztecs- this deal can be cancelled as soon as a significant number of swords get up there. After the GA, production will switch to horses for a knight upgrade.

The zipped saves are here. No screenshot as being on dialup via the family's only phone line limits online time.
 
Justus: I don't recall if they built the Collossus or the GL, I know the pyramids were still around for my last set of thirty and I grabbed them with a Great Leader during my first war with the Aztecs. When I made initial contact I did pull all the AI to parity. That was how I was able to get all the contacts the same turn, by trading contacts (something I normally don't do), and tech for contacts. It also helps that the 2 scientific civs are on the same continent. I know that I traded the last Ancient tech to Germany and pushed them to the Middle ages. The Germans free tech was different than Greece and all of a sudden they traded and I was down, Monotheism and Feudalism. Pulling the AI along is probably :smoke: in a domination game.
 
That's interesting, that they got different free techs, I didn't realize until the last GOTM that that was even possible, when someone (DaveMcW I think) posted about it. Now I try to check for that. I don't believe they did in my game though. As for pulling the AI up, I think there are times it is good, and times not. If you have the GL, it can help to bring them up to your level so they can research for you. I did it, selling/gifting the last few techs to the greeks so I could buy monotheism, but I was already closing in on Feudalism, and wanted to go straight for Chivalry.
 
Getting another free tech. I have only had that happend to me once while playing a scientific civ. Only once durring well more than a year of playing. So it doesn't happend all that often.
 
I remember reading in one of the posts, it is like 90%+ to be the standard (top-line) tech, but it can happen. Worth checking on, I guess.
 
Justus, you are totally right Dave used it in GOTM15 to get avery fast Space win.
 
I thought it was him, I just couldn't remember where I read it. I think even someone from Firaxis commented on it, saying it was intended to be truly random, which tech was free, but got a glitch in programming, and almost always picks the first tech, but on occasion other ones get through.
 
Yup I read that it was a glitch, and the next patch for both civ3 and civ3x will have a fix for that - making scientific civ's much better IMO.

Cudos to your endgame Charis! I never would have thought it possible to expand that rapidly in an emperor game from only 2 towns in thirty rounds.

Reading some of the emperor timelines here, while playing the same map on regent, truly has given me plenty of new angles on opening game strategy. Scouting, initial production and citizen micromanagement being the most valuable insights.

I'm very interested to see the last chart as the different strategies will only come into effect around now - with unit choices, goverment and who attacked where first. I've allways had a passive play starting strategy in civ, more reacting to what my neighbours do or do not - than forcing them to my strategy. Actually I've never been in a game where all the civs where either cautious or annoyed at me before late in the modern ages.

The rush of taking a leap of faith early in the game has actually made this game much more exciting than I thought it could be.
 
@Singularity
Looking at some of the regent maps and timelines, it appears you had an easier time when it came to combat. Several of you had conquered alot (ok some of us had to, me almost being the exception only capturing america).
 
I am looking forward to the final tables also, though I will be out of town until Sunday. I hope to finish this game through domination, to see how much longer it would take, but with GOTM XVII starting, I will have to squeeze in the time!
 
I have already reached domination victory, but for once I am going to hold off until we have seen the last data compilation by cracker before going down that road.

It took a while but it worked.
 
Here is the final data table up to and including turn 120.

When you look at the table, note that I have added a second set of totals and subtotals where the Technology research costs have been equalized to the Regent Level tech costs. This is not 100% a fair comparison because in reality the Emperor players did have to deal with the effects of these increased costs in most cases.



I still plan on doing some more data analysis on these games but I am being called away by several last minute acts by our friends in the software biz.

Good luck to you all in Gotm17-Carthage.
 
ok some final thought here then before I start my gotm17 tomorrow.

What should I have done differently?
1. Started war earlier. I got over taken by everyone that did.

2. Perhaps not built so many spartans, 33 might have been a bit to many, but with that golden age i was producing them every second turn.

3. Still think I made the right decision in not building the GL, instead going for Sun Tzu. Even thou this led to that China got a tech boost out of this world. Which made the others got boosts to.

I had a good start but then I hit the wall, I peaked to soon ;(

Anyway this was great fun, I'd love to do it again.

-------------
here is my domination save

And a quick timeline for it, with out much details just the important highlights.

250 ad > chivalry
270 ad > wipe out persia
900 ad - war with iroquouis, the chinese had attacked me a few turns earlier.
1000 ad the last aztec city is captured
1040 I controll the start island.

(iroq had escaped with one city out on the small middle island)

1530 germany is history
1535 last greek city captured.

only me and china left now.

DOMINATION VICTORY
1540 AD

score 4916

good for me cause the chinese already had replacable parts
and industrialization. Which wouldn't have been a funny combo
for my Cavalry.

I changed to Monarchy once I got it. Then I never bothered
to change gov. I didn't need the science boost vs war riots.
 
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