feldmarshall
Dictator
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- Jan 25, 2007
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How often will you get Great People? Is there a formula or a rough estimate about how often this will happens? Are there factors that affect how often you'll get these?
Completing patronage: How often will you get Great People?
- Thread starter feldmarshall
- Start date
How often will you get Great People? Is there a formula or a rough estimate about how often this will happens? Are there factors that affect how often you'll get these?
ThorHammerz
zzz
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It is governed by the formula:
(37 - 1 * NumberOfAllies) + (random number between 0 and 7). The bonus from NumberOfAllies cannot exceed 10.
(37 - 1 * NumberOfAllies) + (random number between 0 and 7). The bonus from NumberOfAllies cannot exceed 10.
feldmarshall
Dictator
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- Jan 25, 2007
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Thanks, could you explain a bit what this formula does? e.g. if I have 5 allied and the random number is 1, it's 37 - 1*5 + 3 = 35.
What does 35 mean here? And also, is the type of Great People totally random?
Which has more to do with Rationalism being overpowered than Patronage being under powered.
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2012
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- 952
Current game, I have been allied with maybe 12 of 16 city-states and seem to be getting great people maybe twice per era. Except they're all great generals.
Delnar_Ersike
Prince
Turns.
ThorHammerz forgot to mention one additional factor, and that's "Great Person Spawn Bias": the first Great Person you get from a city-state is generated twice as fast as the others.
The instant you adopt the Patronage finisher, it will generate a random number of turns based on the formula ThorHammerz mentioned; the first time this happens, the Great Person you get is generated twice as fast. The game will then decrease the counter by 1 each turn, regardless of how many allies you have, until the counter hits 0, at which point a random allied city-state will gift you a random, non-prophet Great person and the game will regenerate your turn counter using the mentioned formula. Spawn times are increased and decreased with game speed, so they'll be more frequent on Quick and less frequent on Marathon.
Gaining new allies decreases the turn counter by 2. Losing a city-state ally does nothing. Coincidentally, this means the ideal way of generating great people from city-states is to constantly unally and ally them, since you lose nothing by losing a city-state ally but you always reduce your spawn turn count by 2 every time you (re)ally a city-state.
So it sounds like the best way to do that is to have the production load to be able to pump out units to keep gift just to keep the ally threshold going?
lindsay40k
Emperor
That, or keep topping up with 250gp. Both are pretty do-able late on.
Ironically, this makes the Ideological Tenets relating to CS diplomacy undesirable, as they have a tendency to keep your Influence in the hundreds. Though you *could* do some lengthy micromanaging with Gunboat Diplomacy... just make sure you hammer Alexander if you want to try any of these tricks
Don’t do that! Hold out for 500 gold if you possibly can, as the money goes much more than twice as far.
The Freedom tenet that gets you 20 influence per donated unit can actually offer a better gold:influence ratio, so consider that too (but probably w/ full patronage you don’t have anything in commerce, so maybe not).
Militaristic CS will give gifts that you use as gifts.
Delnar_Ersike
Prince
Remember, the actual gold- or units-to-influence ratio isn't necessarily important: if you want to speed up GP spawning, you want to constantly flip city-states back and forth across the allied threshold, since every time a CS becomes your ally, the turn timer for your next spawned GP is reduced by 2. It may seem counterintuitive, but hey, that's how it works. In fact, because existing allies only reduce your turn timer by 1 when your CS-gifted GP spawns, it's actually better to only have one CS ally every time, since allying CS's right after the GP spawns lowers your turn timer by 1 more than if you just had them as an ally when the turn timer reset.
If you go from 1 to 0 allies, is that good or bad? Seem like after getting a GP, let all the allies expire, so that the next GP counter starts at half instead of full?
Then with 0 CS allies you bribe them one per turn as many as your economy allows, using just the minimum you need?
In this case, donating units for 5 influence would often be best strategy as you want each CS at close to the minimum needed.
Then with 0 CS allies you bribe them one per turn as many as your economy allows, using just the minimum you need?
In this case, donating units for 5 influence would often be best strategy as you want each CS at close to the minimum needed.
Delnar_Ersike
Prince
You need at least 1 GP ally for the turn timer to both process and reset; going down to 0 allies pauses the turn counter. If you don't have any allies when you unlock Patronage finisher, your GP counter will reset itself and start counting down at the start of the first turn that you have a CS ally (so if you get a CS ally during your turn, eg. from gold gifts, the turn counter will only reset and start counting down at the start of your next turn).
Okay, you answered this earlier. The half counter discount is once and only once. So no way to game that aspect of the mechanic.
So no real harm with losing all your CS allies. That means fiddling with just putting CS over the friendship/ally line does not risk losing a GP.
Can you provide insight as to what kind of GP are generated? In particular, how common are MoV and Khan?
Delnar_Ersike
Prince
Besides the fact that getting a Great Prophet is impossible (technically, it's any GP that can found a religion), it's completely random: all great people that exist in the game get assigned a random score between 0 to 100 and the highest score wins. That said, the way that tiebreakers work means that you have an ever-so-slightly higher chance of getting GP's that are defined earlier in the game files (since the ties are won by the GP with the lowest ID, which corresponds to the order they are defined in the game's files). The order GP's are defined in the game files is as follows: Great Artist, Great Scientist, Great Merchant, Great Engineer, Great General, MoV, Great Writer, Great Musician, Great Admiral, Khan, then any other GP's that are added by mods. The effect of the tiebreaker are not that significant though: it basically boils down to having a 10.5075% chance of getting a Great Artist (instead of 10%) and a 9.5075% chance of getting a Khan (instead of 10%), with the other GP's falling somewhere in between.
Bad Wolf
King
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- Jun 9, 2012
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- 633
Yes Rationalism is broken. In higher level play (or play against skilled humans) you have virtually no choice but to fill it. It's the same problem with Tradition and Liberty (esp. Tradition) being overpowered, but arguably it's actually worse, since there are ways to make a non-Tradition game work. (Honor is harder, and full-Piety virtually impossible in my experience.) All things being equal there's no way to keep up in science (and therefore, win the game) without Rationalism, unless you're Babylon or Korea.
lindsay40k
Emperor
I'd argue that if you've played a lot of turn-based skirmish games (for instance: Fire Emblem, Battle of Wesnoth, Vandal Hearts), Honor can be so powerful that the only reason one might even gain access to Rationalism is because one needs Astronomy to reach more victims.
I've had Deity games where I didn't even get to fill out a single tree.
reddishrecue
Some dude on civfans
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Rationalism is good when you want to figure out these figures too..
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