Governments and Politics

OOC -Saved and deleted post-

Occ:

Well you could have said this a bit more nicely and in a pm, but since you didn't I will go ahead and voice my opinion.

Mostly what I do is start off by building a scout (which we did) than a monument (which we are doing). Now I would either go for liberty or tradition dePending on how productive my capital is. Right now I am unsure how much production we have, but if you guys think it is enough to finish a wonder than I would go for tradition than organized religion (Or the on that ties a bonus tto wonder building). If we don't have a lot of production than I would go for liberty than the settler one, meanwhile i would build a worker in the capital. And I would spend my first gold on another worker. That's what I do, and I usually get off to a pretty good start. Joshua try to be a little nicer next time, cause that was cold. Also it's not cool to post something just to make someone look stupid. There was really no point in that anyway because we don't elect the politicians they are chosen.

OOC:

I did the PM phase, it wasn't getting through, and so I felt it was neccesary to bring it out in the open so that other people perhaps could change his mind if he wasn;t listening to me alone. I do not post things just to make people look stupid as you say, if I actually wanted to do that I would do it in context and get the potential game benefit in addition to bringing the matter to peoples attention, and I would probably add a couple of personal insults as well if I actually intended such. I only brought this up here because PlyPlay was not listening to my PM's and engaging in dialogue.

However perhaps you are right that frustration at PlyPlays responses perhaps made the post more hostile than neccessary, I have moderated the tone a bit. But I will not obfuscate what I am thinking and thus do PlyPlay the dishonour of effectively lieing to him.

You have no idea how outwardly offended I am right now. I am very aware that I may have completely opposite ideas about things than you do about things, especially, OBVIOUSLY, this game. I have found myself very often against what you do in Children of the Emperor, but I keep quiet, because I am not in control, and I try to understand why you are doing the things that you do. I was TRYING to be nice about the whole situation, and TRYING to be understanding, and I told you that I would be doing everything that you wanted as soon as the Great Library was done.
I understand that many players do not play the same way I do, and this is what I was trying to explain to you, that MY path does in fact work, and that I am not utterly stupid. Sure, I might not be the best pro out there, I just started this year, and I don't spend every waking moment of my life playing the game.

I know VERY well that this is not my game, and I do apologize that yesterday I did get a little over-myself. From what I have heard from the other players, the majority of them agree with how I am doing things, and if you haven't really read my posts, I do ask questions and opinions about what I am doing, just because I am not doing it exactly how you would have done it does not call for posting a private message on to the forum and basically calling me stupid.

If I am the only one here who believes that going for the Great Library at the moment is a good idea, then I will certainly do it the way you want to do it, but I feel that I am not the only one who agrees. I have told you that I don't believe that building a worker RIGHT now would be the best idea because there isn't a whole load of things to do. Improving the tiles won't even add more Hammers, in fact, it will probably take some away. That is why I am going to do it immediately after the building is complete, when we have more land to boot. As for the Settlers, I don't want to build them RIGHT now either, because we don't have Collective Role in place, which building them right now will take double the time, all that time could be spent growing the population.

I am sorry that you do not like the way I am doing things, but I am not going to crumble apart and become a little puppet for you.

OOC: very well. I will delete my previous post to avoid any further issue regarding you from people who may come on later, and I will sit back and wait and see what happens. I am however severely concerned as to the impact of the great library on the collective empire considering the state of our development and especially considering the time it may take to construct such a wonder.

As to offense, I am sorry if you are offended especially since I ordinarily would not of done something like that, but such is my level of concern at the effect long term on the empire that I felt it was neccesary to bring it out, since I felt you were just dismissing my PM's out of hand, thus I felt that niceness took a backseat to making sure the issue was addressed especially considering PMing every single person and saying the same thing behind your back would be even more un-nice if you would put it that way. (indeed I had begun to pm people before deciding that it would just be better to get a message publicly instead). Furthermore I add that I am primarily worried about the effect such a build would have long term if it ended up flopping and severely effecting the empire (and thus the games) wellbeing, on peoples overall enjoyment of the game.

Supreme Leader PlyPlay

Please do not that that Citizen Jehoshua scathing speech about how you are completely screwing up our civilizations future harshly. I do not think he understands the power that you wield and openly confronting you could directly lead to his death. I believe he is a passionate man born from living to long in another life.

I agree with your current direction and would like to see a worker to develop the land around our city. Is it possible instead of building it buying it or acquiring one via other means?

To the people of our fair city,

Since our leader is dead set on his direction how can we support him or direct his attention to expand our civilization after his current plan has been completed.

OCC: the whole thing was OOC if you didn't see the previous message Chgrogers.

Jehoshua said:

very well. I will delete my previous post to avoid any further issue regarding you from people who may come on later, and I will sit back and wait and see what happens. I am however severely concerned as to the impact of the great library on the collective empire considering the state of our development and especially considering the time it may take to construct such a wonder.

As to offense, I am sorry if you are offended especially since I ordinarily would not of done something like that, but such is my level of concern at the effect long term on the empire that I felt it was neccesary to bring it out, since I felt you were just dismissing my PM's out of hand, thus I felt that niceness took a backseat to making sure the issue was addressed especially considering PMing every single person and saying the same thing behind your back would be even more un-nice if you would put it that way.

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I will PM Civleader and ask him to end the next/one after that/etc. Session when Writing is completed and see how long it will take to build this Great Library. If it really does take that long to build, then I will try to reason with you, by replacing it with a Library for the Time being or something(Because it is VITAL to be ahead in Science), because either way, the workers will run out of things to do eventually. It's not like we even have that many citizens to work a ton of fixed tiles.

I am sorry that you felt that I was not listening to what you were saying. I do listen to every piece of advice everyone gives me, which is why I am FOR SURE building a Worker after whatever science building we end up building.

chgrogers said:

Since our leader is dead set on his direction how can we support him or direct his attention to expand our civilization after his current plan has been completed.

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I am sorry that I appear to be unreasonable in anyone's eyes. I do listen to advice, and if anyone has opinions on what I do, I DO listen to them. I don't just throw them into the toilet. I know I'm not the only one playing this game, and I want it to be fair to everyone else, but I want to have some enjoyment myself, and kind of go in the direction I usually go in. Like I have said, I'm also usually not a huge military person, but as I have stated, building Military Units is in the queue. Not the REAL queue, but I think you know what I mean, maybe?

No problem. At least getting the facts on the table can help with clearing the air. However I would disagree with the workers considering the Gold and the wheat can be improved and with calendar or trapping deer and dye are available (and if we were going to go onto a second city we could send them there once that is done)

I agree with you that science is important, I just don;t think that putting all our eggs in the Great Library basket so early is good for our health.

All that was out of character so don't hold it against joshua's character. Also you made some good point plyplay maybe if we make enough gold u could use it to build a worker. Also don't forget that using a worker to remove the forest will give us extra production, which would allow us to finish it quickly. Just try to compromise and forgive each other for your shortcomings.

Jehoshua said:

OCC: the whole thing was OOC if you didn't see the previous message Chgrogers.

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By bringing it to forum like that I consider it a public speech against the Leader even if you put an out of context label on it. Unless otherwise contradicted my statement stands.

dot has a point about a worker being able to remove forests and hasten the Great Library. If we were to purchase it that is fine in my eyes as equivalent to producing it ordinarily (money is for spending)

chgrogers said:

By bringing it to forum like that I consider it a public speech against the Leader even if you put an out of context label on it. Unless otherwise contradicted my statement stands.

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But alas it was OOC and not in character to begin with, furthermore its been deleted regardless so the point is irrelevant anyway.

chgrogers said:

By bringing it to forum like that I consider it a public speech against the Leader even if you put an out of context label on it. Unless otherwise contradicted my statement stands.

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I think that would be considered meta-gaming. Also plyplay if we were to settle sooner it will give us the same amount of science that another city would, and it would allow us to produce other things. While building the great library. I dont think it s with the maintinence to build a library before 6 pop or more.

dot80 said:

All that was out of character so don't hold it against joshua's character. Also you made some good point plyplay maybe if we make enough gold u could use it to build a worker. Also don't forget that using a worker to remove the forest will give us extra production, which would allow us to finish it quickly. Just try to compromise and forgive each other for your shortcomings.

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I don't plan on holding it against his character. I am not an immature person like that. I will very willingly let his character get as powerful as it can possibly be.
The only thing I am offended by is the actual person who wrote the message calling me stupid.
Aka, no matter what he says, unless it's an actual game attack to my player, or he kills my mother's llama, or something like that, I am going to be nice, and I'm going to play fair, but that doesn't mean I have to like him.

EDIT: Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If he thinks I am a ******ed cow, he can think I'm a ******ed cow. This doesn't make me one.

In my personal opinion, tearing down the forests are not worth the mere 20 Hammers it gives, when there are over 200 game turns in a normal game. Doesn't the forest also give an extra food point, also? That is another good reason to keep them there. In my personal opinion, I think building Trading Posts upon researching Trapping would be a good idea, to get extra gold, while also getting a hammer, and also a food point. All in one tile. Cities usually don't have enough citizens to work every tile until late game, so getting everything on one tile, I believe, it a good idea.

I was talking to that other guy, but I am happy u aren't going to let this dispute ruin the game because than I would be questioning ur leader ship skills. I'll shut up now, afterall I am a lowly peasant.

OOC:I don't think your a ******ed cow.

The great library is a good idea and the reasoning behind it is good. Its just that I think the timing of it was suboptimal to put it nicely and I was and am concerned to such high degree that it could potentially jeopardised our long term success considering especially the nature of this game. Which is why I think it would be good to build at least after a worker and possibly a settler. That way if you want to look at it from the GL view you can chop to hasten it (or at least improve the resource tiles which help in pop and gold which indirectly help the GL) and we can construct something in the other city simultaneously and get that cities science to boot and even perhaps get a more advanced technology than an earlier GL.

Either way the only reason I posted here to begin with is because I erroneously got the impression from your replies to my PM's that you were just dismissing me out of hand and not thinking about what I was saying or actually going to engage in a dialogue on it compared to just saying "I understand, but Im doing this", and in turn I was getting exceedingly frustrated and felt that the only way to get the issue discussed was to take the drastic measure of throwing it into the thread in a manner that was sure to get everyones attention.

I think I've got it!! Okay, between the availability of the Great Library, and the completion of the Granary, we should have one turn to begin building the worker. If we enact Liberty, we should have +7 Culture, I'm not sure the EXACT numbers, but it shouldn't take long to be able to enact two more policies, I don't think? We will do Legalism, and then Collective Rule, upon enacting Collective Rule, (Maybe a little while before?) We can immediately place the worker to the top of the queue, build the quick worker, then possibly build a Warrior Unit, and then continue work on the Great Library. *rough draft* Any ideas?
(Because by then, there will be plenty of land to improve, especially considering a new city being founded. I just don't think it would be smart to have a useless unit sitting around waiting when it's done it's job.)
Alright, I have decided to build a worker, then the Great Library.

As for the Science, when done with Writing, we can go for Animal Husbandry, then Trapping. Possibly enact Calender, or whatever is the biggest tech available at the time.(When Great Library is finished.)

could work, although the worker - library (or library - worker order could be interchangable), settler, found new city and build a military unit in new city , GL in capital option all the while improving the best tiles option could be good.

Jehoshua said:

Hmm sounds ok in theory, it depends on the time it takes between social policies though.

I would cut out legalism though if this plan is viable since with a monument in the capital and lacking philosophy and other cities we won't get the maximum benefit from it. So effectively adopting Liberalism and Collective rule.

Now as to what your building are you saying we finish the granary and then a worker and warrior followed by the GL? I am not sure what build path you are saying.

As to science I would do calendar if it is feasible to slog-research it before AH and trapping, to get the resources faster overall, also permits us to GL philosophy i believe which is always a useful tech.

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I still want to do this:
Policy Plan: Legalism > Collective Rule
Production Queue: Granary > Worker(Completely Finish) > Great Library > Warrior > Settler
Science Plan: Let me think about it.