It's not Islam, is it?

Neomega said:

You aren't confused. You know damn well America has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent muslims.

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Nope. Don't know no such thang.

Neomega said:

You also know damn well America has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi soldiers, simply defending their nation from a foreign invader.

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Other than the 'innocent' part, you could say that.

Neomega said:

And yes, America has killed tens, if not hundreds of thousands of heroic mujaheddin who died defending their homeland from an imperial army hell bent on occupation and colonialization. Yeah I said it, most of them (not the Americans) are freedom fighters.

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I can only hope that we got that many.

Neomega said:

Is that enough keyboard manliness for you, tough guy? Or do you want to try and hippy/kumbayah this one?

And if this is treason, make the most of it.

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Tain't treason. Misinformed, likely. Misquided, probably. Kumbayaland, definitely.

bugwar said:

Nope. Don't know no such thang.

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Of course you don't. Your information gatekeepers don't pound it into your head every day.

Every time a family is killed in Afghanistan, CNN doesn't do an hour long tribute and special on it. They just mention it, and read the ISAF statement of regret.

But three Americans killed in Libya, and the news stations cover every possible worhtless detail about it for weeks.

Did you here, CNN has Steven's diary! I bet there is good news in there!

Would CNN ever go through the hassle of trying to broadcast information from a girl who was killed by American bombs in Iraq?

Nope. Never...

(Now if she was killed by one of the armed groups in Iraq who opposes us, then it might serve some propagandist's purpose.)

Kumbayaland, definitely.

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yeah, you're right. Saying it's their religion that makes them crazy is far more sensible than anything related to the catastrophic life changes war has imposed upon them.

Most of the people who say that the Muslims see themselves as freedom fighters ignore the fact that the Americans see themselves as freedom fighters.

Also, CNN just reports what viewers are interested- that's not propaganda, per se.

At the end of the day a religion's virtue is assessed not by its scriptures but by the overall behaviour of its followers. The present situation is a largely about referred anger as Neomega has alluded to. However there are parties in both the Muslim and non-Muslim communities that have an interest in whipping up hysteria like this: the former use it to galvanize and unite the faithful in the face of a common enemy, while the latter use it to produce Islamophobia by provoking Muslims to behave in ways that corroborate negative stereotypes about Muslims. Either way, the protestors are being used as pawns in others' schemes.

Well, the protests always happen when Islam is supposedly offended. It is Muslims who protest in the name of Islam or the Prophet. The protests happen on Fridays after the week's main sermon, where the Muslim clergy certainly ask the crowds to go protesting. This Friday there were also big gatherings of protesters in many European cities.
I haven't heard a Muslim say it's about anything else than the Prophet being offended, but many Western commentators highlight other factors like poverty and frustration.
So it seems to me that religion plays a key part here.

The problem may be that Muslims identify themselves too much as Muslims. "The West holds the Muslim world down because we are Muslims. They offend our prophet and therefore all Muslims in the world." If they had thought of themselves as more than Allah's completely submitted minions, they might have cared less about silly stuff such as bad cartoons and movies.

Much of the Muhammadan world probably needs some kind of reformation, so that people are able to think more by themselves, and put less weight on religion in their lives. Let's hope Pakistan's and Egypt's Muslims soon will become like their co-religionists in Bosnia or Indonesia. Although much seems to go in the opposite direction right now.
Of course the many Muslim dictatorships need reforms in politics too, but freedom of mind and thought must come before freedom of speech and voting.

Neomega said:

Mocks?

Try KILLS only muslims and never Christians.
It's far more than just mockery that has them angry.
It's not just name calling. It's the murder of their wives and daughters and husbands and fathers and friends and dogs.

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Give it a rest, man. The West has not killed the wives and dahughters and dogs of anyone in Egypt since the Suez War. Don't make up excuses.

Many other regions were more screwed than the muslim world, why don't they present the same level of psychosis?

luiz said:

Give it a rest, man. The West has not killed the wives and dahughters and dogs of anyone in Egypt...

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The US supported Mubarak, a brutal dictator in Egypt, for 40 years, with hundreds of millions of dollars and arms a year.

Anti-American sentiment is not necessarily nationalist. So it doesn't matter if it happened in Egypt or not.

Many other regions were more screwed than the muslim world, why don't they present the same level of psychosis?

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You keep calling it psychosis, as if America is a land of sane people. What is psychosis? What is sanity? Is sanity being a slave to the mind control media machine?

It's pretty psychotic to me to be happy about killing people across the world jsut because some lady on a news show said they were bad people. That's pretty psychotic. Would you kill your neighbor if some well dressed woman on the television batted her eyes and told you he needed to be killed because he was bad and had done bad things?

Then why so eager to do it to people 10,000 miles away?

The muslim "psychosis" is the direct result of being beaten down, bombed and colonized for decades by America and her allies.

All this war is just a fantasy to most of you. Most of you haven't the slightest clue how shattering a war can be to one's life. You call it a tragedy when some dude shoots up 19 people in a movie theater, but don't give a second thought when this happens every day because when your government sanctions the murder, you don't know any better but to cheer it on.

Imrahil91 said:

Much of the Muhammadan world probably needs some kind of reformation, so that people are able to think more by themselves, and put less weight on religion in their lives.

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No, the entire world needs some kind of reformation, so that people are able to think more themselves, and put less weight on nationalism and religion in their lives.

Well, the protests always happen when Islam is supposedly offended.

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the protests happen all the time. When they get news coverage, is a different story. During the Iraq war, many protesters were shot dead int eh streets protesting the American occupation. There have been bloody protests in Bahrain and Yemen for more than a year, but you hardly ever hear about those.

Imrahil91 said:

Well, the protests always happen when Islam is supposedly offended.

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That is not true, at any given time their is more than enough anti-Islamic material on the internet to outrage and/or entertain a person for years on end. It seems that such protests are more likely to occur when some particularly obnoxious and low-brow anti-Islamic document comes to the attention of the wrong people who proceed to publicise it specifically in order to antagonise and provoke a reaction.

AlpsStranger said:

Only fools deny that Islam has serious issues at this point. I'm going to be called bigoted or Islamophobic, but I don't really care how you label it. I'm not a real pal to Christianity, as anyone else on here will tell you, but Islam is definitely going through a period of serious turmoil right now.

I don't think U.S. bombs can be blamed for honor killings or the execution of apostates. We hardly force them to dress their women like Jawas and put them under house arrest.

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You are, a worst type of Islamophobs even which is an angry Islamophobs. Now bring me one doctrine of Islam that support honor killing if you are not Islamophobs? It is a culture that out from the border of Islam even categorize a big sin in Islam. But you just want to fit your argument with your prejudgement and bring what ever the muslim do is wrong and line it with Islam as causalities.

Neomega said:

Wait, you asked why do they hate us, is it Islam.

I told you it's because we are killing them.

You answer, but the killings are justified?

Ok, well, if you want to sit in your comfy living room, and believe they are justified, that's your prerogative.

But I guarantee you, had it been your family incinerated by a bomb and your wife blown to pieces by a drone missile, you would take a lot more convincing it was justified, lot more than just some news article you read that explained why your country just got bombed and your son just had his face ripped off by shrapnel.

So are you actually asking a question? No, you are just simply giving a Pavlovian respons to movies like 300 and the dictator and Borat, and a steady stream of news both directly from CNN et al and regurgitated on forums.

You can't help you hate Muslims, and think they are crazy and deranged, the media filters that have been brainwashing you are responsible for that.

And now, you do exactly as hoped for by the military industrial complex's media, you start another Islamaphobic conversation where you pat yourself on the back as a civilized man, justify your nations' murders of people with "we dinnit mean to kill them... ...all hundred thousand of them or more.... we were just trying to bring peace and democracy, and those stupid Muslims don't like peace or democracy" and ask, "why are we so civilized, and they are so crazy?"

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My respect for you, and I agree with what you say completely, there is bias in society.

Neomega said:

The US supported Mubarak, a brutal dictator in Egypt, for 40 years, with hundreds of millions of dollars and arms a year.

Anti-American sentiment is not necessarily nationalist. So it doesn't matter if it happened in Egypt or not.



You keep calling it psychosis, as if America is a land of sane people. What is psychosis? What is sanity? Is sanity being a slave to the mind control media machine?

It's pretty psychotic to me to be happy about killing people across the world jsut because some lady on a news show said they were bad people. That's pretty psychotic. Would you kill your neighbor if some well dressed woman on the television batted her eyes and told you he needed to be killed because he was bad and had done bad things?

Then why so eager to do it to people 10,000 miles away?

The muslim "psychosis" is the direct result of being beaten down, bombed and colonized for decades by America and her allies.

All this war is just a fantasy to most of you. Most of you haven't the slightest clue how shattering a war can be to one's life. You call it a tragedy when some dude shoots up 19 people in a movie theater, but don't give a second thought when this happens every day because when your government sanctions the murder, you don't know any better but to cheer it on.

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I doubt anyone actually does that. If you could at least find someone on these forums like that, I'll give more credit to your posts. That said, you seem to be already ignoring mine.

Islam needs to go away, but there are deeper issues here than just Islam making people more violent. The US plays a highly antagonistic role towards the people of the Middle East, there is a ton of anger because of that, and that is what needs to be addressed.

Neomega said:

Most of you haven't the slightest clue how shattering a war can be to one's life.

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Please tell us how shattering war has been to your life in Seattle.

haroon said:

You are, a worst type of Islamophobs even which is an angry Islamophobs. Now bring me one doctrine of Islam that support honor killing if you are not Islamophobs? It is a culture that out from the border of Islam even categorize a big sin in Islam. But you just want to fit your argument with your prejudgement and bring what ever the muslim do is wrong and line it with Islam as causalities.

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Religion lives on the streets and in the seats on the prayer mats. It doesn't matter what the book says. The Koran can't cut off a clitoris or force a woman to wear a beekeeper's outfit to leave her home. Without people to interpret it the Koran just sits on the stand doing nothing.

AlpsStranger said:

Religion lives on the streets and in the seats on the prayer mats. It doesn't matter what the book says. The Koran can't cut off a clitoris or force a woman to wear a beekeeper's outfit to leave her home. Without people to interpret it the Koran just sits on the stand doing nothing.

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That such a bold words u use. So you trying to tell me that these act are cause by a difference interpretation of Quran, and show which surah it is?

And I bet you will not find even one except in your dream because these things exist before Islam. It is a culture that many muslim fight it and try to put it off from society. If not instead of speaking in angry manner tell me directly and prove it to me where islam related to this, if you can't just remain silent and stay away from things that you don't have knowledge about it.

haroon said:

That such a bold words u use. So you trying to tell me that these act are cause by a difference interpretation of Quran, and show which surah it is?

And I bet you will not find even one except in your dream because these things exist before Islam. It is a culture that many muslim fight it and try to put it off from society. If not instead of speaking in angry manner tell me directly and prove it to me where islam related to this, if you can't just remain silent and stay away from things that you don't have knowledge about it.

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Now THAT is funny!

Guy is on the internet, in an English speaking public forum, telling someone to shut up if they don't know what they are talking about.

Don't troll the internet much, do you?

bugwar said:

Now THAT is funny!

Guy is on the internet, in an English speaking public forum, telling someone to shut up if they don't know what they are talking about.

Don't troll the internet much, do you?

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Is that a trolling? to tell someone not to blame out of ignorance a religion that been hold by billion peoples as a sources of honor killing and mutilation that can end up generalization over these billion population itself?

While for me its better for someone to keep silent instead of pointing out and start to judging things that they don't know about it. That is recommendation, I'm not ordering anyone here.

AlpsStranger said:

Religion lives on the streets and in the seats on the prayer mats. It doesn't matter what the book says. The Koran can't cut off a clitoris or force a woman to wear a beekeeper's outfit to leave her home. Without people to interpret it the Koran just sits on the stand doing nothing.

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Yes, some people are violent nutters who use religion or other worldviews to justify their own biases and pre-concieved notions.
More at 11.

Maimonides said:

Please tell us how shattering war has been to your life in Seattle.

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See, there is this called empathy, and "putting yourself in someone elses shoes"
Something, obviously, most Americans never practice when thinking about the middle East.

I knew some smart-alek would post that. Thanks for adding to the conversation Maimonides!

AlpsStranger said:

The Koran can't cut off a clitoris

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That was some ignorant bull right there.

Ajidica said:

Yes, some people are violent nutters who use religion or other worldviews to justify their own biases and pre-concieved notions.
More at 11.

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But the things is they don't even use religion to justify their action. Honor killing is something that been carry on in their tradition, just like face tatoo by traditional Kurdish while having tatoo is contradict and forbiden in Islamic doctrine but they go on using it because its part of their tradition. Not every act that come from Muslim society base on Islamic teaching or difference view or interpretation of Islamic doctrine. Some of it already there before Islam and still carry on.