BNW: Possible to win cultural without key wonders and high cultured civs?

Technically it's possible. If nothing else you can build an army and come extremely close to winning domination (forcing most civs into an involuntary OCC with only one of them keeping their capital) but pick a peaceful victory condition. (Hum, BNW changed the domination rule so you can now have one of the civs keep some other AI's capital)

In fact back in the Civ II days, I would often conquer the world except for 1 city and then launch the space ship. But I haven't had the patience for that since SMAC.

A few things...

Don't take the troll bait given saying you can win without at least some of the major themed wonders. Even if the Cheiftan AI is that bad, you need to focus on the victory early. Either that or like the above poster they've crippled every other civ to the point where a small amount of tourism is enough to advance on the AI.

The Parthenon is the "culture" wonder formerly known as Stonehenge, formerly known as Terracotta Army. The great work comes to give the +2 culture on a +4 culture wonder early (thus giving the original +6). Early game culture is the benefit not so much the piece of Great Art. I will say that the early tourism helps get the ball rolling (just like everything else the more raw resource you get early the more impact it will have), but either way, the Great Artwork is useful through the entire game. In my Brazil victory, I was able to easily get the Louvre bonus because I had a unique piece of Classical period Artwork.

Oh, and if you want a cultural victory, play Brazil. I was able to win before we got halfway through the industrial period (no hotels, no airports, just straight tourism from works and theming)

What about on deity level? LOL. And what if you are on pangaea, wedge in between two warmongers? Say, gaylex and Oda Nobby?

But on the note of wonders, how much tourism does each wonder generate, and where are exceptions to this?

I also keep seeing people saying they are trying to do culture victory going tall or with only 5 or 6 cities. This is not enough!!! Culture victory is no longer dependent on the number of policies you have adopted so SP's are now a minor aspect of cultural victory (exploration tree). Yes the science costs go up by 5% but if you found your cities early and get them growing you will be outputting enough science later on to if not at least reach tech parity with the AI then outclass them altogether. Trust me, go wide (i already won two cultural victories going wide) The world congress is also your friend here, civs LOOOVVVEEEE it when you propose the arts funding measure. While it may seems counterproductive to turn down generation of scientisits and engineers if you want a culture victory then it behooves you for the world to get these people slower, the enemies will not be able to rush techs/wonders nearly as often. As others said the international games is paramount to a culture victory, you dont need the wonders just a high tourism which is achieved by your raw number of artifacts/theming bonuses. Steal the enemies artifacts, even before they can dig them up! got open borders with someone? take their antiquity sites. And NEVER use your GWAM on culture points/golden ages if going for culture victory. Even if you have no slots for their works, save them for later. Also the cathedral is the best religious building for a culture victory for obvious reasons. Also ive found great musicians concert feature is a waste, just make a great piece of music instead. Lastly, if a civ is on runaway course (the ottomans were in the first culture game i won) your only option to surpass their culture in a timely manner may be military intervention. In my case suleiman had only three cities but his capital was a beast and contained like some 20 odd wonders/great works. The minute i seized his capital i won but there was no way i could do so while he had all that culture rolling in. Dont even declare war to get more great works, declare war to wipe out the culture standing in your path.

You get heaps of tourism multipliers late game. Just kill off any cultures you're having trouble influencing.

When in doubt, just carpet bomb stubborn civs with great musicians.

I wanted to update your all. I just managed to win the match

I could not get a cultural victory though, Siam had too much culture for me to deal with and I could not launch enough concerts. I chose Freedom, if I would have chosen Order like everyone else I may have gotten a culture victory, and had I built some key wonders that Siam took (I did not have Louvre or Broadway).

I did what you recommended and went heavy science to hotels and started to turn it around with tourism. I had Tourism +1040 at the end and influenced everyone except the score leader. I did not think I would win the game at some point and was playing just to get far for the first time in BNW.

While I was trying to out culture Siam I calculated that I would lose the Space race to Siam. So I did a hail mary and moved a massive invasion force around the globe and took the capital. I had an outdated force with lots of ground melee units (volunteer army is awesome). I was also in battleship range of the capital. I also succeeded because public opinion and internal matters ruined the Siamese military.

Venice was close behind with diplomatic but the world was too divided to choose a world leader.

Cyanfunk said:

When in doubt, just carpet bomb stubborn civs with great musicians.

Click to expand...

^ This.

Regardless if you have wonders, if you are a culture civ... none of that matters.
Just plop musicians into the runaway's borders and buy OB/trade/diplo in cap.
Every civ can win culture easily by doing so.

They need to patch so that culture-victory civ will not give OB/trades and kill musicians else it's too easy to win.