SGOTM 14 - Kakumeika

Kaitzilla said:

Ok, finished out to T125. Finished a few worker moves to save us wondering how many turns a plot had on it already. I fortified every unit, saved the game, and will upload it now.

East Witches got Feudalism T125.
We will have a Great Scientist on T128 thanks to the GLibrary.
That darling little workboat got us trade routes to Monty, Ghandi, and Mansa on T124.
Did not see the Wizard.

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Great work, well done Kaitzilla!

OK, here is the upload. We got a lucky spread to Marble City, so 6 cities out of 10 have Tao and we got 1 Missionary sitting in Stone City. We need to convert Ghenghis somehow hehe.

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1 AD to 250 AD:

Turn 115, 1 AD: The borders of Washington have expanded!
Turn 115, 1 AD: The borders of GP Farm have expanded!
Turn 115, 1 AD: The borders of Phants City have expanded!
Turn 115, 1 AD: Chuang-Tzu (Great Prophet) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 116, 25 AD: Joseph Conrad (Great Artist) has been born in Washington (Dorothy)!
Turn 116, 25 AD: You have discovered Music!
Turn 116, 25 AD: Good Witch of the North converts to Hinduism!
Turn 116, 25 AD: The Mahabodhi has been built in a far away land!

Turn 117, 50 AD: You have discovered Monarchy!
Turn 117, 50 AD: You have discovered Metal Casting!
Turn 117, 50 AD: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 117, 50 AD: Dorothy adopts Slavery!
Turn 117, 50 AD: Dorothy adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 117, 50 AD: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.

Turn 118, 75 AD: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 118, 75 AD: Dorothy converts to Taoism!
Turn 118, 75 AD: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.
Turn 118, 75 AD: Pytheas (Great Merchant) has been born in Delhi (Good Witch of the West)!

Turn 119, 100 AD: You have discovered Horseback Riding!

Turn 120, 125 AD: You have trained Taoist Missionary in Stone City. Work has now begun on a Taoist Monastery.

Turn 121, 150 AD: You have trained Taoist Missionary in Stone City. Work has now begun on a Taoist Monastery.
Turn 121, 150 AD: You have trained a Settler in GP Farm. Work has now begun on National Epic.

Turn 122, 175 AD: Taoism has spread in Washington.
Turn 122, 175 AD: You have constructed a Forge in Washington. Work has now begun on a Market.
Turn 122, 175 AD: You have trained a Settler in Silver City. Work has now begun on a Lighthouse.

Turn 123, 200 AD: Stone City can hurry Taoist Missionary for 2⇴ with 33ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 17 turns.
Turn 123, 200 AD: Gems City has grown to size 9.
Turn 123, 200 AD: GP Farm has grown to size 9.
Turn 123, 200 AD: Isengard has grown to size 7.
Turn 123, 200 AD: Marble City has grown to size 3.
Turn 123, 200 AD: Wicked Witch of the West has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 123, 200 AD: Taoism has spread in GP Farm.
Turn 123, 200 AD: Washington will grow to size 10 on the next turn.
Turn 123, 200 AD: Stone City will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 123, 200 AD: Silver City will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 123, 200 AD: Culture Bridge will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 123, 200 AD: Phants City will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
Turn 123, 200 AD: You have discovered Theology!
Turn 123, 200 AD: Espionage Mission undertaken successfully!
Turn 123, 200 AD: Upon completing the mission the Spy 3 (Washington) has returned safely to Washington.
Turn 123, 200 AD: You have trained Taoist Missionary in Washington. Work has now begun on a Market.
Turn 123, 200 AD: You have trained Taoist Missionary in Stone City. Work has now begun on a Taoist Monastery.
Turn 123, 200 AD: Good Witch of the South has founded Tadmekka in a distant land.
Turn 123, 200 AD: Good Witch of the West has founded Prayaga in a distant land.

Turn 124, 225 AD: Washington has grown to size 10.
Turn 124, 225 AD: Washington can hurry Market for 3⇴ with 13ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 18 turns.
Turn 124, 225 AD: GP Farm can hurry National Epic for 3⇴ with 10ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 17 turns.
Turn 124, 225 AD: Silver City has grown to size 4.
Turn 124, 225 AD: Isengard can hurry War Elephant for 2⇴ with 36ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 17 turns.
Turn 124, 225 AD: Culture Bridge has grown to size 4.
Turn 124, 225 AD: Phants City has grown to size 2.
Turn 124, 225 AD: Phants City can hurry Granary for 1⇴ with 13ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 124, 225 AD: Good Witch of the South has 90 gold available for trade.
Turn 124, 225 AD: Good Witch of the West has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 124, 225 AD: New York has been founded.
Turn 124, 225 AD: Gems City will grow to size 10 on the next turn.
Turn 124, 225 AD: GP Farm will grow to size 10 on the next turn.
Turn 124, 225 AD: You have trained Taoist Missionary in Stone City. Work has now begun on a Taoist Monastery.
Turn 124, 225 AD: Taoism has spread in Marble City.
Turn 124, 225 AD: Hinduism has spread in New York.
Turn 124, 225 AD: Good Witch of the North adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 124, 225 AD: Good Witch of the East adopts Vassalage!

Turn 125, 250 AD: Stone City can hurry Taoist Monastery for 2⇴ with 32ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 25 turns.
Turn 125, 250 AD: Gems City has grown to size 10.
Turn 125, 250 AD: GP Farm has grown to size 10.
Turn 125, 250 AD: Wicked Witch of the East has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 125, 250 AD: Wicked Witch of the East will trade Wine
Turn 125, 250 AD: Taoism has spread in Silver City.
Turn 125, 250 AD: Taoism has spread in Gems City.
Turn 125, 250 AD: Stone City will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 125, 250 AD: GP Farm will grow to size 11 on the next turn.
Turn 125, 250 AD: Silver City will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 125, 250 AD: Isengard will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 125, 250 AD: Culture Bridge will grow to size 5 on the next turn.

The begging list is:
T116 Begged Monty
T118 Begged Ghenghis
T120 Begged Mansa
T120 Begged Shaka

Did not beg Elizabeth, never had enough gold.



Switched our meager EP to East withces as we were on the verge of losing sight of their teching.

Refused Ghenghis religion for -1 diplo. The spy getting caught gave us -1 diplo with Monty. Nothing too bad occured. Peace treat with south witches ought to last to T130, they are still in war prep mode.

I deviated from the PPP city builds in every city except culture bridge, marble city, and silver city I think.

Not really sure how I can update our testgame with the crashing problems from the last one.

Any ideas?

Kaitzilla said:

I deviated from the PPP city builds in every city except culture bridge, marble city, and silver city I think.

Not really sure how I can update our testgame with the crashing problems from the last one.

Any ideas?

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I think we'll have to re-play it again from an earlier point I know I won't have time for that before the weekend...

Kaitzilla, can you grab screenshots from the current game and upload so we can start discussion for the next PPP, please?

mabraham said:

I think we'll have to re-play it again from an earlier point I know I won't have time for that before the weekend...

Kaitzilla, can you grab screenshots from the current game and upload so we can start discussion for the next PPP, please?

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Ya, I can post the screenshots. Give me a min. to Paintbrush in worker names.

T125 Screenshots of our empire: I forgot to note the Tao Missionary sitting in Stone City, but he is there. There also might be 1T left on the road of Isengard's sheep, saw it in Tachywaxon's test game? Also, I'm bad about making notes/removing notes, along with naming workers and cities. Thanks for the ALT+Stop on the workers trick mabraham.

To make a PPP with these screenshots, quote this post, and copy the Screenshot URL's I think, then delete the quote and paste them into your own post.

Good job mister

Kaitzilla said:

Some bad luck. Taoism failed to spread to gems city on T116. I will try to get GPfarm to whip a missionary out and hopefully spread to gems city about T125

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Kaitzilla said:

Wow! We are very cursed. On T117 our 92% chance spy failed to steal theology and was caught dead too.

Shall I try to steal Theology on T119 so we can continue paper, or shall we tech civil service?

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Hmmm. Some obscure forces don't want us to get gold medal I see.

Anyways, I have to say, you did very well to produce a PPP and played the turnset in 3 days. Out of curiosity and needing a reference to do better for my next turn-set, how many hours did you invest during these three days?

Kaitzilla, nice work adapting to the bad luck.

Sun Tzu Wu... waiting
mabraham... waiting
Tachywaxon... waiting
Walter_Wolf... waiting
Kaitzilla... waiting
frogdude... UP NOW
bcool... on deck
shulec... in the hole

I think I figured out what is crashing the test game.

I found a city that was about to finish the colossus and I crippled its production so that it wouldn't finish. When I ended the turn, the game didn't crash.

So I think we sink that city into the ocean and periodically check if any other cities who might build the colossus going forward. Or perhaps if we gave the city the colossus it wouldn't crash? Yes that seemed to work as well.

Preliminary ideas for the next turnset

• stay in Organized religion and set up 6 cities to build/whip universities
• trade maps for gold (sometimes it is better not to trade for their maps right away. Then you can sometimes get their spare gold twice, once for trading your maps, then again after trading for some AI's map and selling the land that AI's map revealed to the other AI)
• I didn't see any war prep mode in the real game save anymore so the beg might have canceled it?
• I think we want to set up a steal of feudalism from the northern witches (since we might not be able to or want to trade for it) -- so spy in boston, taoism in boston, run a spy specialist in Isengard, put espionage on northern witches (trying to keep tech visibility for others)
• New York might want to steal a mine for Gems to pop its borders in 2 turns
• chopping a workboat I assume for New York
• gp situation if we want to slow down GPFarm it produces a minimum of 24 after the NE so 500/24 ~ 20 turns. Washington is making 14 gp and has 224 and will have ~266 when the great scientist and NE finishes. So washington has 500-266 234 left so ~17 turns left for a 100 engineer. So perhaps we plan a switch to caste system ~20 turns from now. Might want to consider running scientists in some of the side cities so they have a chance to beat GPFarm when we do switch back to caste system
• We need taoism in boston and Trojan City soon. I'm thinking we whip 2 more missionaries out of Stone city.
• tech path: finish paper, great scientist partial bulb of education and then finish education? If finish education go to 0% slider until universities and Oxford is finished.
• We probably want a great scientist for an academy at some point? The 600 gp great scientist? I think we want this as soon as possible after the great engineer...
• Need for miliary might be quite low going forward unless war prep starts somewhere. I think we might want for Isengard: lighthouse, Moai, then HE?
• I think we want to trade for the eastern witches spare gold. Resources are unlikely to help them significantly and we can get 6-7 more gold from them each turn. That isn't insignificant. Renegotiate the 1 gold trade and get a 4 gold trade from the other.\
• finding cities of Monty critical if we want a run at the AP since Monty might have already started it. Gandhi isn't but Monty might...

Tachywaxon said:

Hmmm. Some obscure forces don't want us to get gold medal I see.

Anyways, I have to say, you did very well to produce a PPP and played the turnset in 3 days. Out of curiosity and needing a reference to do better for my next turn-set, how many hours did you invest during these three days?

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Not sure, more hours than I should have probably.

I was trying to hurry along our turnset experimenting with different things.

Kaitzilla said:

Not sure, more hours than I should have probably.

I was trying to hurry along our turnset experimenting with different things.

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Do you have an approximation? You did so well, I take your number as reference.

bcool said:

I think I figured out what is crashing the test game.

I found a city that was about to finish the colossus and I crippled its production so that it wouldn't finish. When I ended the turn, the game didn't crash.

So I think we sink that city into the ocean and periodically check if any other cities who might build the colossus going forward. Or perhaps if we gave the city the colossus it wouldn't crash? Yes that seemed to work as well.

Click to expand...

Good job, bcool.

Tachywaxon said:

Do you have an approximation? You did so well, I take your number as reference.

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Hrmm.
1 Hour for goals
10 Hour for rough, first, 2nd, final PPP after listening to team comments
2 Hour serious run through a test game
3 Hour playing a turnset

I'd say about 16 hours of work.
My brain actually stopped working twice during that, where I literally lost the ability to think for 5 minutes. I just felt the urge to hurry as we are down to our last month next week.

Frogdude was last on the forum on 10-30-11. He hasn't posted since September. It seems that mabraham has been in touch with him, but I am not optimistic that we will hear an "I got it" from him at 24 hours. I would like to suggest a firm adherence to bcool's team guidelines that if we don't hear from him, that he be skipped. We need to move forward quickly, and I don't want to see days wasted.

I generally agree with what follows.

bcool said:

Preliminary ideas for the next turnset

[*]stay in Organized religion and set up 6 cities to build/whip universities
[*]trade maps for gold (sometimes it is better not to trade for their maps right away. Then you can sometimes get their spare gold twice, once for trading your maps, then again after trading for some AI's map and selling the land that AI's map revealed to the other AI)

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We've had lots of scouts on our spoke from most of the AIs for most of the game. That probably means either they're short on scouting data elsewhere, or they have scouting everywhere they have open borders. The Eastern spokes are probably somewhat unknown to non-Easterlings, so our spy-scouts should give us some trading value there. Perhaps the religious blocks have made open borders tricky and they don't have scouting on each other's spokes?

bcool said:

[*]I didn't see any war prep mode in the real game save anymore so the beg might have canceled it?

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I think that was the idea of the beg.

bcool said:

[*]I think we want to set up a steal of feudalism from the northern witches (since we might not be able to or want to trade for it) -- so spy in boston, taoism in boston, run a spy specialist in Isengard, put espionage on northern witches (trying to keep tech visibility for others)

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That's one possibility. Another I suggested was to steal Machinery from West and trade that to North for Feudalism + map + cash, because the East are teching Feudalism and that should de-monopolise it for trading sooner or later.

bcool said:

[*]New York might want to steal a mine for Gems to pop its borders in 2 turns
[*]chopping a workboat I assume for New York

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NY would have had Hinduism for passive culture, but we're in Taoism now. There's no rush to pop the borders sooner than we can plant the workboat, so we should build Culture working the Gforest and judge the timing of the workboat chop suitably. Granary next, of course.

bcool said:

[*]gp situation if we want to slow down GPFarm it produces a minimum of 24 after the NE so 500/24 ~ 20 turns. Washington is making 14 gp and has 224 and will have ~266 when the great scientist and NE finishes. So washington has 500-266 234 left so ~17 turns left for a 100 engineer. So perhaps we plan a switch to caste system ~20 turns from now. Might want to consider running scientists in some of the side cities so they have a chance to beat GPFarm when we do switch back to caste system

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Aren't our side cities busily growing to get things whipped? In general, we won't be able to do both.

bcool said:

[*]We need taoism in boston and Trojan City soon. I'm thinking we whip 2 more missionaries out of Stone city.

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I guess so.

bcool said:

[*]tech path: finish paper, great scientist partial bulb of education and then finish education? If finish education go to 0% slider until universities and Oxford is finished.

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Ideally, we finish Edu, put a turn on six universities and whip them all the turn after, then switch civics. That probably won't happen in practice, but we will want to be growing some population for this, and so we would like to apply the bulb when our population is highest. That probably means we want to put the normal tech on Edu before the bulb, having estimated the size of the bulb (there's a forum thread somewhere with a formula).

bcool said:

[*]We probably want a great scientist for an academy at some point? The 600 gp great scientist? I think we want this as soon as possible after the great engineer...

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OK

bcool said:

[*]Need for miliary might be quite low going forward unless war prep starts somewhere. I think we might want for Isengard: lighthouse, Moai, then HE?

Click to expand...

I hate the Moai as a general rule. With stone, it costs 125 base hammers. Isengard produces 13 base hammers, so with some building multipliers around, Moai takes 6-8 turns to build. Once Isengard gets to size 12 to work max resources+coast, the Moai returns 8 base hammers per turn, so up to 15 turns to pay off. We get some return while the population grows, so call it 20-25 turns to pay off. So Moai seems reasonable.

bcool said:

[*]I think we want to trade for the eastern witches spare gold. Resources are unlikely to help them significantly and we can get 6-7 more gold from them each turn. That isn't insignificant. Renegotiate the 1 gold trade and get a 4 gold trade from the other.

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Doesn't that risk diplo penalties?

bcool said:

[*] finding cities of Monty critical if we want a run at the AP since Monty might have already started it. Gandhi isn't but Monty might...

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Yep.

shulec said:

Frogdude was last on the forum on 10-30-11. He hasn't posted since September. It seems that mabraham has been in touch with him, but I am not optimistic that we will hear an "I got it" from him at 24 hours. I would like to suggest a firm adherence to bcool's team guidelines that if we don't hear from him, that he be skipped. We need to move forward quickly, and I don't want to see days wasted.

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Yes, he is back from being overseas for 6 weeks, as I'm sure he said when he signed up. I emailed him 12 hours ago to point out that it was his turn and the expectations under which the team is operating. I do expect we'll hear back one way or the other, but certainly a skip is in order if we don't hear. The prep discussion bcool started will be good one way or the other

Quote: Originally Posted by bcool
[*]I think we want to trade for the eastern witches spare gold. Resources are unlikely to help them significantly and we can get 6-7 more gold from them each turn. That isn't insignificant. Renegotiate the 1 gold trade and get a 4 gold trade from the other.

Doesn't that risk diplo penalties?

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I actually want to trade with them so if someone asks we can stop for a diplo bonus. (and a diplo hit with the eastern witches but I'm assuming that isn't a big deal since no trades routes and no tech trades from them it seems.)

Does agreeing to stop trading with someone give a diplo bonus? I rarely do it because they won't talk to me forever after it seems.