Submarines?

What good are submarines? It seems everything from an ironclad to a transport to a battleship will destroy them every time. Are they only good for sinking carriers?

Thanks. In my current game, AI England has built dozens of them and I sink them every time every way. And nuclear subs are more expensive and seem to be absolutely useless.

Nuclear subs can be useful if you want to get closer to launch a nuke (especially helpful if it's a larger map).

Regular subs are 8/4/3 I think... which means they don't have good defense but could sink ironclads and transports easily, and possibly a destroyer or carrier.

The best use of a sub is to scout. Only a destroyer or an Ageis can spot them. The others will run into them by accident and then attack.

I do not make them most of the time, but if I was to pick up a game that was that far along and the AI had carriers, I build some subs to try to find the location of the carriers.

Them I can bomb them or attack them. There are not good for head to head combat.

Only a destroyer or an Ageis can spot them

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Or, of course, another sub.

I did not think I needed to say that.

Hey,

What good are submarines?

Have you played the WWII vil. or the WWII Conquest game?

If any game will teach the use of subs its these. Scouting is great for subs but the use of options on which ship you will attack is great.

For example: A single US sub attacks a Jap fleet and you can sink the carrier.
This is worth the subs weight in gold. Anytime you can sink a carrier is like a cherry on a sundae. I have also learned many invasion fleets have lost the transports of troops because of the U-boat. Thank the game designers that the AI doesn't use the German tactic of sub warfare.


Blaze Injun

Submarines are far more usefal in C3C. I'm not sure, but i think in C3C you can chose what ship you want to attack. This is good for carries and transports

Vind2 said:

Submarines are far more usefal in C3C. I'm not sure, but i think in C3C you can chose what ship you want to attack. This is good for carries and transports

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Unfortunately though subs are broken in C3C.

Like Blaze Injun said, submarines are very useful in the C3C scenario - WWII in the Pacific. Use them to attack transports/carriers or redlined battleships/destroyers in a stack. Not to mention carrying those nukes to the Japanese mainland.

Kiowa said:

What good are submarines? It seems everything from an ironclad to a transport to a battleship will destroy them every time. Are they only good for sinking carriers?

Thanks. In my current game, AI England has built dozens of them and I sink them every time every way. And nuclear subs are more expensive and seem to be absolutely useless.

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Um, a transport has 2 defense, and a sub has 8 attack, so usually the sub wins when it attacks.

vmxa said:

The best use of a sub is to scout. Only a destroyer or an Ageis can spot them. The others will run into them by accident and then attack.

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Is that why the frigates kill me? Still dumb though, they shouldnt be able to find a submerged sub.

How could they, they do not even know such a thing exist. They have no sonar. I think battleships should be able to, but for the game conventions, we have what we have.

So a frigate just runs into the sub and then a combat ensues. This is what is dangerous about subs, they can get a war started that you did not want.

Bucephalus said:

Unfortunately though subs are broken in C3C.

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I don't understand what you are asying here

Little Corporal said:

Um, a transport has 2 defense, and a sub has 8 attack, so usually the sub wins when it attacks.

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Maybe it's just luck, but my transports beat the AI sub at least 3 out of four times.

Kiowa said:

Maybe it's just luck

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RNG

Vind2 said:

I don't understand what you are asying here

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He's refering to the infamous Sub Bug. If your sub is accidently bumped into by another civ, it is an automatic declaration of war. Another problem with subs is that their ability to remain undetected (except by destroyers) is useless since the AI automatically knows where all your units are, subs included.

And isn't the stealth ability for subs only in the WWII in the Pacific scenario?

gunkulator said:

And isn't the stealth ability for subs only in the WWII in the Pacific scenario?

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I think that's right. IIRC, in my last mod, my subs didn't have that, and I didn't fiddle with the units stats.

gunkulator said:

And isn't the stealth ability for subs only in the WWII in the Pacific scenario?

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No, in the epic game, the submarine has stealth attack as well.

vmxa said:

So a frigate just runs into the sub and then a combat ensues. This is what is dangerous about subs, they can get a war started that you did not want.

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What's so maddening about this is that when AI wants to attack you, it knows exactly where all your units are but when it's just passing by with no intent to attack, it forgets.

gunkulator said:

He's refering to the infamous Sub Bug. If your sub is accidently bumped into by another civ, it is an automatic declaration of war. Another problem with subs is that their ability to remain undetected (except by destroyers) is useless since the AI automatically knows where all your units are, subs included.

And isn't the stealth ability for subs only in the WWII in the Pacific scenario?

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Wow! I didn't know this. I had a MPP with England. I had already took out Germany for them and grabbed a nice island for 20+ cities. Then they pulled me into a war with the Aztecs. We're all heading across the ocean for some southern redecorating, and without notice, the English sub sinks my carrier and I'm in war. Needless to say, I was forced to defend myself, so I signed a MPP with my furious neighbor, and 15 turns later England resembled Great Britain -- two little cities on a far away island. One of my ships was in Egypt's territory and they tell me to get out, blank the ROP, they don't trust me for backstabbing and breaking my promise with England. I got the blame! When the sub sunk my ship, I checked with the diplomat who said we were at war with England. But who declared it? Was it I in my quick and fatal retaliation? I never said we're in war. In reflection, I don't think England did either. I didn't wait to find out. I just took London, decimated it's naval fleet and never looked back. My destroyers went on a search and destroy mission and took out a dozen of their subs without a casualty.

So if I understand submarines correctly, it would be to keep a distance from a peaceful neighboring navy.