SGOTM2 Germany - Team scout

Contact! Sweet!
 
**End o’ Turn Report**
  • Military Report: (20 cities) 25 worker(+4slaves), 12 warriors, 1 archer, 13 spears, & 1 sword. Our military is Weak- France, Japan, & China; Average- Russia & India; Strong- England.
  • Economy: We’re down Chiv to France, and at parity with everyone else(or rather they’re now at parity with us). I didn’t give away our contacts, it’s up to the next person if they want to do that or not. We’re making 97gpt at 0 lux & research, and our unit support is costing us 53gpt.
  • I have the research down for 1 more turn so we’ll have enough cash to rush the courthouse in New Berlin(FP site), after this you can turn it up some. N. Berlin should start the FP after the court finishes, also workers in the area should make that site a pretty big priority. Another note is that New Berlin has our horses, they’ll need to be hooked up ASAP.
  • Our biggest issue right now is lack of gold(no cash rushing, upgrading and buying techs is hard), but once the other Civs get their economy in order it won’t be such a problem because we’ll be able to actually make something off trading. Keep in mind we don’t want to cripple their gpt though
  • In Republic, Population=gold. We want all our cities growing to as big as they can before we pull a worker out to keep them happy. No more pulling workers out of size 2 towns, unless it can’t possibly get to size 3 until work is done(ie all jungle cities).
  • Our empire is doing pretty well. We just need a couple more pikes & a ton of cats incase one of our neighbors(France) gets the bright idea to attack us. That way we can fight a purely defensive war, not cripple them,and get some great opportunities at leader fishing. I’m thinking about skipping upgrading our warriors totally, and once we have horses hooked up we can start disbanding warriors that aren’t barb hunting. After we sort out what the hell Joanie is doing it’s back to markets, libraries & courthouses everywhere!
  • Hannover has our lone scientist to keep the population happy, after the library(3 turns) we’ll want to pull either a settler or a couple workers & then get a market in there. It doesn’t grow for 12, but you can change the scientist to a clown to buy you some time if need be.
  • Leipzig can be abandoned after this settler is produced. It’s more then served it’s purpose & has been a excellent temp worker pump.
  • I have a worker changing a couple tiles around Kongisburg so we can get irrigation to Hamburg, I’ll ouline his path in the map. Once we have some irrigation down that city will be able to use the surrounding hills, since that’s our main unit factory we need it to be up to par.


Any upcoming Wonders we want to plan for? Building has already started on Sun’s, but Leo’s(would help keep our military current), Bach’s(2 contents per city is always nice) are coming up. After that comes Copernicus’s, Newton’s & Smith’s that would be helpful.

Research path? We havn't really started on PP yet, so it can be changed if we want to. I was thinking Printing, Demo, then switch & ride out the rest of the game as a Democracy(even including our final war).


Our grand holdings......


The Super sketchy front line........

I have that warrior scouting the mountain a bit to the north of there to make sure none have slipped by yet.

My irrigation project.......



Good luck! It's certainly a dicy situation.
 
I'm going to have to disagree with you on one point - disbanding the warriors. We need to upgrade them - for reasons I'll explain later... it has to do with the math the AI uses to assess military strength.

We need to maintain some sort of gpt deals going with all the civs on the continent, so that if one of them attacks us, they take a rep hit.
 
I know the formula the AI uses to determine military strenght vs weakness, that's insignificant at this point though. Every turn they stay in the field we're burning 1gpt. We don't have the money to upgrade them(and won't for awhile), and by the time we do we'll have horses/knights.

I'm not talking about disbanding all 12 of them right now to save 12gpt. I'm talking about selectively disbanding warriors that are too far away to get to the front line & help out(but sitting in a city not doing anything). And then disbanding more/the rest once we have horses hooked up & start producing horsemen, so while our Military Upkeep stays the same or goes down a bit, our Military Strength rises in the eyes of the AI(due to the horseman having a 2 attack VS the warriors 1).

[edit- And we don't really have to gift any gpt to Russia/England, England is too crippled even with the GL to attack us, and it would be suicide for Russia.]
[edit2- After thinking a bit about it, ruining their rep is a tactic that while normally sound, will be a hindrence this game. Think about it, would we rather a neighbor AI pays for a tech to another AI in gold- so they'll spend the money rushing units, or in gpt which will be put into the other civs research?]
 
Lots of good points there GK. Did you invite a potential new teammate yet?

@Tal, you're up if you're ready for it.

Hopefully we'll be adding a new teammate here pretty shortly.
 
"Got it."

Will play today, I think, since tomorrow is England vs France and I'll be far, far too excited to consider playing Civ :lol:

Maybe that's what has happened to Q - he lives in Portugal, right? He must have football (sorry, soccer) fever :cool:


Tal
 
Ok, here we go...

IBT - The French forces retreat back west a bit... Japs building Sun Tzu... Russia looks to be settling eastwards...

Turn 1 - 260 AD

Rush build courthouse in New Berlin for 268 gold. Move troops into better positions near the French border area...
Berlin Settler>Settler
Kill a barb camp, 25g cha-ching...
Going to leave tax rate as it is for a couple more turns, partly to get some bank roll, partly since PP can be done in 9 turns when needed, at a net loss of only 4gpt...

IBT - Chinese>Sun Tzu...

Turn 2 - 270 AD

K'berg catapult>catapult, likewise Heidelburg...
New Berlin builds courthouse, corruption still maxed due to lack of road connection... start on FP.
Upgrade one veteran spear to pikeman.
MM some tiles around Nuremberg/New Leipzig to minimise effect of corruption.

Now making 96gpt after tax. No new advances among other civs, no money floating around either...

IBT - French still floating around, behaving strangely. Chinese begin Sistine Chapel...

Turn 3 - 280 AD

Hannover Library>worker, Nuremburg: Library>Courthouse. These libraries are looking good for cranking the tech rate up next turn.

Scouts reveal no Frenchies have sneaked past to the NW. Still no money or tech around, and Joanie still wants 40 gpt plus contacts for Chivalry...

IBT - French are still lingering around like a bad smell

Turn 4 - 290 AD

K'burg builds second catapult. Start Courthouse, might make this a pre-build for a useful wonder, the 600 shield ones are looking at 55 turns...
Frankfurt Swordsman>pikeman
Salzburg catapult>catapult

Road connected to New Berlin, looks around 66% corrupt :rolleyes:
Kill barbarian camp for 25g, then start stacking catapults in Salzburg, as without a road, they cannot get over the mountains to the west...

Tax rate to 50%, PP in 9 turns, making 4 gpt income... 390g in bank.

IBT - :sleep:

Turn 5 - 300 AD

Brandenburg Library>Courthouse
Cologne Catapult>Courthouse

Disband two warriors from border cities, upkeep costs are spiralling :sad:

IBT - :sleep:

Turn 6 - 310 AD

Hannover Worker>Courthouse
Leipzig Settler>Worker
Heidelburg Catapult> marketplace, need more money...
Munich mines gold, change from catapult to marketplace

IBT - Tokyo builds Lighthouse

Turn 7 - 320 AD

Horses connected :thumbsup:

Found New Frankfurt, disperse barb camp, 25g (where's the :relief: smiley?). Still no new techs or cash amongst the AI civs. What on earth are they DOING with all their cash??

IBT - French still moving around, my roving block warrior is causing them all sorts of confusion :lol:

Turn 8 - 330 AD

Salzburg Catapult>Marketplace (lots of commerce here due to river, 4 cats in a mini S.O.D.)
Change Hamburg from Pike to Horse... MM this place to max growth now that the irrigation is done.
Warrior kills barb, looks like another 2 camps are up!

Now only losing 1gpt, 401 in the bank, PP in 5...

IBT - :sleep:

Turn 9 - 340 AD

Leipzig produces Worker, and is abandoned, population 1. So long, Leipzig, and thanks for all the fish...

Lots of movement, warrior kills a barb horseman, finds the camp.

Again, no new discoveries by the AI. I hereby propose that we now refer to the computer players as AU civs (Artificially Unintelligent)...

IBT - Fend off a barbar attack in New Frankfurt...

Turn 10 - 350 AD

Refound Leipzig in the FP ring. Not much else happens, except some worker stuff and some hunting...


Over to you, Scouty!


Aftermath Summary

420g in bank, -2gpt, PP in 3 turns, but no new advances at all from the AU...

Militarily a bit better, with some pikemen, some catapults, but no war with France (hurrah!) - so most production has been on buildings, settlers and some workers.

Worker improvements are going well, especially around the FP site and Hamburg/Konigsberg.

There is a settler near New Berlin which could easily join that city, rather than found a new (and not so good) city. Worth thinking about, as the FP will take forever otherwise, and we are already over the OCN... There is a second settler which has headed SE towards that little clearing of plains in amongst all that jungle... RCP9 site, I believe, not too bad a site...

Will post a few screenies now :)


Tal
 
The running block... Warrior moves up and down, and the French run themselves ragged trying to go around!
 

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Our Empire...
 

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Those look like some good turns! And by the way - we will not be calling the AI "AU". My alma mater is "AU" thanyouverymuch. :p

Gengis and I have invited "Mistfit" to join in. We may or may not fiddle with the order-of-go when/if he checks in... but between that and the fact that I'm up in Denyd's insane little german variant ("Master of the Bow"; limiting ourselves to archers, longbows, and panzers) I may not get to this one until tomorrow.
 
scoutsout said:
Those look like some good turns! And by the way - we will not be calling the AI "AU". My alma mater is "AU" thanyouverymuch. :p

Gengis and I have invited "Mistfit" to join in. We may or may not fiddle with the order-of-go when/if he checks in... but between that and the fact that I'm up in Denyd's insane little german variant ("Master of the Bow"; limiting ourselves to archers, longbows, and panzers) I may not get to this one until tomorrow.

:lol:

Fair enough! AU, eh? Atlanta? Alabama? Albequerque? As a Brit, I have no idea!

As for Mistfit, it'll be good to have him aboard - interesting to see what he makes of our situation...


Tal
 
By the way, is it just me or does it look like our Firaxis score goes backwards whenever I have my turns?? :hmm:

I just checked out the graph, and it looks... dubious! :dubious:
 
Tallanas said:
I just checked out the graph, and it looks... dubious! :dubious:
Don't sweat the score. Remember - we're going for the variant. Those little comments Gengis has made about the tech pace? That matters much more than the score.

Remember - the variant is the fastest UN win (without building the UN). Speed, not score, is what matters. We need to research what the AI are not researching and trade techs like mad.

A lot of the teams have done some early warmongering. While it has no doubt helped their score, I strongly suspect they have also slowed down the tech pace. Our approach is more of a 'balance of power' approach.

I strongly suspect some of these teams will not pursue the variant. One in particular is lead by a very strong player who loves domination wins.... but any team that does not pursue the variant is a team we are not competing with.

Some of the teams are planning to capture the UN. I am still not 100% convinced that capturing the UN will be necessary.
 
Sorry for the double post but will the AI call for a vote if they know we will win? IMHO I think we'll have to capture it to get a vote at all. I'll preface that with the fact that I have a whole lot less experiance than you in these matters
 
Double post? How do you think I've gotten all mine?;)

No, if the AI doesn't think it has a shot it won't call a vote. I think we'll have to capture it.
 
Well, I did get the internet hooked at home. (dial-up does indeed suck, T10 line @work). I looked at the last save and below are my initial reactions. You have all prolly noticed all of this stuff but if I bring up one thing that helps well...we are a team(and I expecting as much help as possible before my turns). Please don't take offense to anything I say.
Printing Press can be had one turn earlier for the cost of 16 gold

Look out for Hanover she's 3 happy and 4 unhappy

We are almost out of room for expansion. Shortly I think we should get back to Berlin for jungle/forest chopping. We currently have 6 improved tiles in the city. I presume we will be growing the city after the settler phase. We have something like 3 jungle and 6 forest tiles to contend with there.

I may have missed this in the turn log but is the courthouse in Konigsberg a prebuild?

Oh golly Stuttgart and Dortmund are horrible little towns in oh...1000 years they might just be productive :lol: Lots of Cat's out of those two, right GK? And who says I don't listen well in class.

I like the idea of building a courthouse in Nuremberg...IT seems historically correct.

According to the Military Advisor we have a strong Military vs everyone but the French and the Chinese. I know you don't put to much stock in this guy but I think this should cut down on the extortion.

GNP - MFG Goods-Polution-Annual Income- and Productivity were #1
Approval-Pop-Landmass-Life span-and family were#2
Japan is the only one ahead of us in scoring although they are kicking our butts in culture. Do we worry about them winning that way? I've never lost that way but I don't play monarch.

So as far as I can tell you guys have done very well for yourselves.
I hope I dont screw things up :lol:

Oh and BTW:
 
Lots of good comments and questions there Mistfit. On the cultural loss thing, I've never had one. Just bear in mind, this is a variant - so we will do some things we wouldn't otherwise do.

@Team: do we want to try and get a wonder triggered GA? IIRC, if we build 2 wonder that are scientific (Like Copernicus' and Newton's) that would trigger a GA...

I've got it, and will play today. For the moment, here's the order of go:

Gengis Khan
Tallanas
scoutsout
Mistfit

So Mistfit - this puts you 'on deck'.
 
SGOTM2 Pre-flight check

...scroll through our cities...

Change Nuremberg to settler so I can build a market in Berlin...

mm a citizen to mined hill in Cologne to get court in 10 instead of 15

As much as I hate clowns, neither a taxman nor a scientist does any good at Hannover.

Stuttgart needs some serious worker turns...

A little mm in Salzburg stunts growth, but shaves 4 turns off market build.

=====
IBT Nuremberg Settler>Market
Bremen Court>Market
The Indians are building Sistine Chapel
French troops move away from New K'burg (I think they were barb hunting)
=====
Turn 1 (360)
What's with this settler down by Heidleberg? I missed that...move him south to claim some Ivory...
New Munich founded on the northern coast
some worker moves...
Diplo check -
France is now up Chivalry and Engineering...and will not trade either.
Russia does not have Iron or Horses. I will be surprised if she survives the Middle Ages.
Nothing else on the trading table...
=====
IBT - A barb pokes his head out in the badlands to the north, and the French move northward again.
Konigsberg Court>Sistine Chapel (Copernicus' Pre-build)
Frankfurt Pike>Pike
=====
Turn 2 (370)
Take science down to 20%, Printing Press in 1.
Joan will trade us either Engineering or Chivalry for contact with Japan and our whole economy. I wait.
whack a barb camp...most of our workers are busy...
=====
IBT - French troops shuffle, we learn Printing press, set queue to....Education at 50%
Berlin Settler>Market
Dortmund Library>Worker
=====
Turn 3 (380)
Lose a warrior trying to kill the barb camp
I buy a French worker for 25g
The best deals I can get from France:
Chivalry for PP+267g
Engineering for PP+398g

I take the Chivalry deal...and there's not a lot of gold to go around. England and Russia lack one or both resources needed for knights, and all three of the civs on the other landmass need chivalry for their GA... this could get ugly. I trade chivalry to Russia and England, for their treasuries.

Organize a forest chop at Nuremberg...

Decision time - we are simply not going to speed up the pace of this game with England and Russia at each other's throats, and France only able to trade techs with us. France will eventually get contact with the other civs...

This is expensive, but I trade contact with Japan, India, and China +100g +5gpt to France for Engineering. Gift Chivalry to India and Japan, take 13g from Mao. Trade world maps around for some more gold.
=====
IBT - French troops shuffle...(thanks to the barb magnet)
=====
Turn 4 (390)
...ahh this movement is nice now that we've got bridges...

I will be danged! Some workers completed a road S-SW of Cologne, and we now have a trade route to Russia and France! Spices to France for WM+40g+4gpt.
=====
IBT - Tal's linebacker just got more important - a French settler pair appears near new K'burg.
=====
Turn 4 (400)
Russia has learned Engineering...England got it through the GL...
The Global Economy:
Germany 179g
India 15g
England 2g
Russia 1g
China and Japan, zero gold.

Sell Engineering to India for a pittance, gift it the rest of the way around the table. Talk about tech parity...
Found New Heidleburg.
=====
IBT - An English settler pair shows up near New K'burg
A Russian pair shows up near that Ivory I was going to claim two turns from now...
=====
Turn 5 (410)
Finish the market in Munich for 120g
Found New Nuremberg in a spot that isn't where I wanted it, but we claim the ivory.
=====
IBT - Munich Market>Settler
New Frankfurt Worker>Library
Cherbourg shows up NW of New K'burg
=====
Turn 6 (420) trying to get some workers organized into stacks here...
Berlin hires a tax collector and gets MM'd to max shields
=====
IBT a dang barb horse pops out of that camp, French troops menace
Stuttgart Library>Worker
Dortmund worker>Court
=====
Turn 7 (430)
I buy a Russian worker for 30g. We're still up PP on everybody but France and England (who got it from GL)
Some worker moves...our Knight (singular, I upgraded a horse) is in the north to play whack-a-barb
=====
IBT - Dang barbs had another horse...
Franfurt Pike>Knight
New Leipzig Library>Worker
=====
Turn 8 (440)
China has PP and is broke. I suspect France sold it to him... dangit.
Some mining has been completed near K'burg, Sistine in 32. We should be able to get Cop's.
New Cologne founded
Knight whacks the barb camp
=====
IBT A Japanese galley shows up off the north coast. Looks like we won't be getting those islands... dangit. I bet that's where the oil is.
New Leipzig worker>Library
Cologne Court>Market
=====
Turn 9 (450)
some worker moves, New Hannover founded, rush the market in Nuremberg so we can get some galleys/settlers to the islands.
=====
IBT - watch an English spear duking it out with some Russian Archers
Nuremberg Market>Galley
Salzburg Market>Worker
=====
Turn 10 (440)
Nothing (and I mean nothing) to trade at the moment.
Some worker moves, get our knight on the road so he can go south, and that's pretty much it.
 
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