Luckymoose
The World is Mine
No one seriously cares about being Polish over here. Americans barely know what Poland is. It's that country that caused all that trouble and ended up communist and poor. We much prefer talking about ourselves.
Immigration to the USA throughout history
- Thread starter Domen
- Start date
No one seriously cares about being Polish over here. Americans barely know what Poland is. It's that country that caused all that trouble and ended up communist and poor. We much prefer talking about ourselves.
North King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
Americans really focus all of their hate on Arabs, Russians, Chinese, Japanese, and black people. They don't have much left over for different parts of Europe.
Domen
Misico dux Vandalorum
Germany started WW2, not Poland. You should focus on it if you are German-American.
We are catching up with Western European level of richness very quickly in recent years.
I posted statistical data on this in other threads if you are interested (but you are not interested).
Also Italy, Cuba, India, Indonesia, Brazil, Korea, Canada, Sri Lanka, Australia and France:
(the best answer is by General Patton #2 at 0:06 second of the video):
Link to video.
Nobody of these German-Americans mentioned Poland. Poland is for German-Europeans.
Domen
Misico dux Vandalorum
I can tell you that our Wimpy Eagle at least did not construct its nest on top of a Supervolcano.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Well, we're talking about Germans that don't identify as Germans. With the probable exception of the Amish, the majority are likely pre-unification. Don't think it changes my point either way, though.
I disagree with this. I think they certainly care about Ireland, Italy, and a few other places. Hell, I do think Polish-Americans care about their Polish identity. There's a bar in Philadelphia called IrishPol that is dedicated to Irish-Polish Americans.
ParkCungHee
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2006
- Messages
- 12,921
And Italians. What hatred I see for the Poles is because they're basically Italians.
Domen
Misico dux Vandalorum
How can majority be pre-unification if over 2/3 of German immigration was post-unification (since 1871)?
As for the Amish - aren't the Amish equal to Pennsylvania Germans / Pennsylvania Dutch?
And in such case, the Amish are actually the oldest group of German-Americans:
In 1790 census, nearly 4/5 of all Germans in the USA lived in Pennsylvania.
===================================
Note:
In New Jersey, Georgia, Delaware, Kentucky and Tennessee no info about ethnicity was collected during that census.
In Virginia most white people simply identified as locals / Americans / Virginians - they had no specific European ethnicity.
But among those who actually stated their ethnicity in Virginia, vast majority (85%) were English or Welsh.
Louis explicitly said that he was talking about 'Germans who do not identify as German' - in other words, people who came over before there really was a 'Germany', or who created their own identity. I'd suggest though that there must be quite a few immigrants from Germany from circa 1936 onwards who identify as 'Jewish-American' more than 'German-American', or else are relatively quiet about their ethnic ancestry.
Domen
Misico dux Vandalorum
That there was no united Germany doesn't mean that those people did not identify as Germans.
Or that they did not start to identify as German-Americans later, which is also very likely.
Actually the Amish have identified themselves as "Pennsylvania Germans", even though they are more like Dutch people.
========================================
Most of ancestors of Polish-Americans came to the USA before there really was a 'Poland' (i.e. before 1918).
Moreover, many of them descent from Polish-speaking ethnographic groups such as Silesians, Prussian Mazurs, Kashubs, etc., etc.
Yet they mostly identify as Polish-Americans today (for example Silesian-Americans numbered only 272 people in 2000 census).
But I suppose that many of Mazur-Americans probably identify themselves as German-Americans rather than Polish-Americans today.
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
And in my area it is mostly Norwegian. When people came here over a hundred years ago they wanted to be near others who spoke their language.
But in any case, the largest ancestry group in the USA is not "German".
The largest ancestry group in the USA (as of 2000 census) is "Not reported":
So probably Pangur Ban is right (especially that "American" ancestry are also mostly English surnames).
Check detailed data in the attached file:
Assuming 'not reported' is all English, then it would be. But that's just not true. Not reported could indeed be people not wanted to be associated with the Brits....or Germans or Polish, or a mixture of them so they are indecisive about what to pick, or they simply do not know.
And when giving the opportunity of listing two choices for ancestry, not everyone is going to list the most dominant one first. What if they are 50/50 and they just list them in alphabetical order? My grandpa was born here, but since his parents came from Norway and spoke Norwegian all the time he spoke some and passed some of it to his kids. My mothers side of the family has no Norwegian in it, my dad's dad did not marry a Norwegian, so I'm less than 50% norwegian, but that's what I would put as the first choice, just because it was talked about more in the family (he was the grandparent who lived closest to us and lived the longest). Other parts of my ancestry include German, Scottish and English.
How can majority be pre-unification if over 2/3 of German immigration was post-unification (since 1871)?
As for the Amish - aren't the Amish equal to Pennsylvania Germans / Pennsylvania Dutch?
And in such case, the Amish are actually the oldest group of German-Americans:
In 1790 census, nearly 4/5 of all Germans in the USA lived in Pennsylvania.
While English were the majority in 1790 (although had they been counted Africans would have been the majority) they were quickly matched in the post 1820 immigration wave.
Between 1820 and 1930 there were 2 million more Germans than English added. Germans immigration to the US continued to outpace immigration from the UK until 1970.
http://immigrationinamerica.org/393-british-immigrants.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American
Domen
Misico dux Vandalorum
Nope - Africans were 757,181 in year 1790 - including 697,624 slaves and 59,557 free people.
That was still not enough to surpass the number of British-Americans, IMO.
BTW - what wikipedia gives as "German Immigration", are in fact not only ethnic Germans.
This is immigration from German countries, which includes also Non-German citizens of those states.
Here I agree. And remember that these "not reported" for sure include also some people who have Non-European origins.
Surely, it is often the matter of preference. But I assume that many people prefer to be German than - say - Spanish.
Especially since there is this propaganda that German-Americans are the most numerous group, surpassing British-Americans.
BTW - maybe you are less than 50% Norwegian but still you are more Norwegian than any of the other three options.
MilesGregarius
Half-baked Renegade
What?!?
Uh, no. "Dutch" is simply a somewhat archaic use of the term that gave rise to both Dutch proper and modern Deutsch. The Pennsylvania Dutch are decidedly German, mostly from the Palatinate, as well as Alsatians and Swiss. Until recently, many of them spoke a distinct dialect of German, Pennsylvania German.
As for the Amish, who are only one small element of the Pennsylvania Dutch, they are mostly descended from Alsatian and Swiss-German Anabaptists. They, and all the other Pennsylvania Dutch, are without doubt German in origin.
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
Of my four grandparents, one was Norwegian. I'm not counted as a German-American, Scottish-American, or British American merely because Norwegian was slightly more influential?
If it's preference then that can explain the misconception (if it is one and not the truth) that Germans are more numerous than Brits. Oktoberfest is more interesting than.....I can't think of any English-American or English heritage festivals in the the US. Thanksgiving may have been influenced by the English (harvest festivals), but nobody views it like that.
So if a Brit marries a german and have a child, that child can only be one or the other and not both?
Similar here. Mom's family identifies as Irish. Dad's family has an English name, but has been in the US since before the Revolutionary War, and never talks about being of English ancestry.
Dutch itself was considered a dialect of German until relatively recently. The line between a dialect and a language is rather thin - Bismarck allegedly quipped that a language is just a dialect with an army and a navy.
Domen
Misico dux Vandalorum
AFAIK, you can declare up to two ancestries in U.S. censuses - so yes, such a child can declare both.
When it comes to your case, you have four grandparents, each of different ancestry, but you can only declare two.
Ask the U.S. Census Bureau why there are no more options available than two - they are the boss here.
If I were you, I would declare British-Norwegian. Norwegian is "exotic", while both English and Scottish count as British.
Bismarck was a wise bastard, no doubt about it.
Domen
Misico dux Vandalorum
Nice quote from W. Kruszko's 1905 book (I provided a link to it before):
Translation:
==================================================
I made a map basing on data from this Polish-American 1905 book and from website linked below:
Total population by state:
http://www.demographia.com/db-state1900.htm
Data concerning number of Poles ca. year 1900:
Map:
http://postimg.org/image/8j7n2iyt1/full/
Of course after year 1900 there continued to be further large influx of Polish immigration to the U.S.
============================================
Here an interesting map of Non-English languages which are spoken in the USA:
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/..._the_most_popular_language_in_your_state.html
Nowadays vast majority of Polish-American speak English and most of them can't speak Polish at all.
But in 1900 it was quite dfferently - most of Polish-Americans couldn't speak English fluently at that time.
In 1900 they were speaking Polish and many of them could also speak German or Russian as secondary languages.
Translation:
==================================================
I made a map basing on data from this Polish-American 1905 book and from website linked below:
Total population by state:
http://www.demographia.com/db-state1900.htm
Data concerning number of Poles ca. year 1900:
Spoiler :
Map:
http://postimg.org/image/8j7n2iyt1/full/
Of course after year 1900 there continued to be further large influx of Polish immigration to the U.S.
============================================
Here an interesting map of Non-English languages which are spoken in the USA:
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/..._the_most_popular_language_in_your_state.html
Nowadays vast majority of Polish-American speak English and most of them can't speak Polish at all.
But in 1900 it was quite dfferently - most of Polish-Americans couldn't speak English fluently at that time.
In 1900 they were speaking Polish and many of them could also speak German or Russian as secondary languages.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
That's a fair point. I hadn't considered them. I still think the odds are the majority are pre-unification, though, but it's closer than I had considered.
I will try to break this down into as simple language as possible. There are four groups of German immigrants.
1. Germans who identify as Germans and arrived before unification
2. Germans who do not identify as Germans (or do identify as Americans) and arrived before unification.
3. Germans who identify as Germans and arrived after unification.
4. Germans who do not identify as Germans (or do identify as Americans) and arrived after unification.
Just looking at categories 2 and 4, it is likely that the majority of people that belong to these two categories arrived before unification (i.e., there are more descendants of category 2 than category 4).
However, I think my original point was actually to emphasize that, between 1 and 2, I'd imagine that 2 is the larger group. That's why I excluded the Amish, who would likely still fall under category 1.
Domen
Misico dux Vandalorum
When it comes to German immigrants (as well as Non-German immigrants from Germany):
I wonder from which parts of Germany did those German immigrants come from.
It seems that among pre-unification (before 1871) immigrants, most came from South-Western Germany:
18th century:
http://www.progenealogists.com/germanemigration.htm
Map:
1848 - 1854:
http://beaumontfamilyhistory.org/In Depth/German Immigration.htm
Map:
http://beaumontfamilyhistory.org/IMAGES/In Depth/Emigration dots.jpg
I wonder from which parts of Germany did those German immigrants come from.
It seems that among pre-unification (before 1871) immigrants, most came from South-Western Germany:
18th century:
http://www.progenealogists.com/germanemigration.htm
Map:
1848 - 1854:
http://beaumontfamilyhistory.org/In Depth/German Immigration.htm
Map:
http://beaumontfamilyhistory.org/IMAGES/In Depth/Emigration dots.jpg
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