Global Conflict Scenario

LuKo · Jul 1, 2007

Statute of Westminster for all these countries was given in 1930's
official independence.
However RSA becomes USSR vassal in begging so ill will see maybe they'll be UK vassal as for the other two it works out well the way it is they have more than half of UK land and an alliance with USA is not so bad

Wasn't George VI of the United Kingdom king of Australia and Canada?

It's either Italy or Spain i prefer the detail of units of the Italian nation

Mussolini was a master for Hitler and Hitler was a master for Mussolini. If Italy is German vassal, Germany should be Italian vassal too

Or consider them as a free nations. Or merge them into one (Spain haven't fought in WWII, so it's better to have it as a free nation).

JediPimp · Jul 1, 2007

LuKo said:
Wasn't George VI of the United Kingdom king of Australia and Canada?

Still today we have the Queen of England on our currency here in Canada but we are much more the vassal of USA even though it's still a constitutional monarchy

LuKo said:
Mussolini was a master for Hitler and Hitler was a master for Mussolini. If Italy is German vassal, Germany should be Italian vassal too Or consider them as a free nations. Or merge them into one (Spain haven't fought in WWII, so it's better to have it as a free nation).

No space for Spain on Map but i could make them barbarian it will be easy target for Reich though.
Or i could take out one of the Arab vassals of UK or merge 'em into 1, and create Spain it will be extremely week and will become out of it's own will a vassal
so that won't please you either anyway ill think about it

Try the new version it is improved taking Paris shouldn't be so easy now as well as conquering the pacific Stalin is mighty big around 20% of land area

LuKo · Jul 1, 2007

Still today we have the Queen of England on our currency here in Canada but we are much more the vassal of USA even though it's still a constitutional monarchy

If tomorrow would start war between UK and USA Canada and Australia would be engaged? Would it help USA or UK? Peace and war are extremely different times

Try the new version it is improved taking Paris shouldn't be so easy now as well as conquering the pacific Stalin is mighty big around 20% of land area

I said Paris because it was a closest city (so it was a first target for me). You should decrease UK army- it wasn't able to attack Germans until USA came with it's armies.

JediPimp · Jul 1, 2007

LuKo said:
If tomorrow would start war between UK and USA

This is WW2 two mod no war between UK and USA

LuKo said:
Canada and Australia would be engaged?

They both are in permanent war with AXIS
-It matters little if they are vassals of UK or USA they both posses
-I think it's good they start independent how they align is up to them
*Australia won't become US vassal unless US conquers Pacific Asia from Japan
-Canada has a big territory so if US stays passive Canada will be independent and maybe switch to UK if they conquer Europe and Africa
*After axis collapsed in 1 of my games with USA , USSR attacked me and kicked me out of Europe some sort of Cold War gone bad.

LuKo said:
I said Paris because it was a closest city (so it was a first target for me). You should decrease UK army- it wasn't able to attack Germans until USA came with it's armies.

-I strengthened the Axis in the new version you can try it and tell me if u can invade axis right away and win
-i think that either Axis USA or USSR should be able to win that seems realistic to me. Either rewrite or replay history as you like.
-UK could have never won without USA in my opinion .
-It would be cool if you could trigger in python a war between Reich and USSR.

LuKo · Jul 1, 2007

This is WW2 two mod no war between UK and USA

I meant tomorrow=02.07.07

*Australia won't become US vassal unless US conquers Pacific Asia from Japan
-Canada has a big territory so if US stays passive Canada will be independent and maybe switch to UK if they conquer Europe and Africa

Canada shouldn't be able to became USA vassal.

It would be cool if you could trigger in python a war between Reich and USSR.

It can be triggered on certain turn but on EVERY map.

asioasioasio · Jul 3, 2007

LuKo said:
It can be triggered on certain turn but on EVERY map.

Yup it's mayor problem with all scripts - they are good for 1-3 maps - but more scenarios means more troubles

jefmart1 · Jul 3, 2007

Spain did send a unit of volunteers to fight on the Eastern Front with Germany called the Blue Legion.

But the only reason they stayed neutral and did not join the Axis is that Admiral Canaris undermined Hitlers efforts to get them to join and secretly conspired to keep Spain neutral. (History Channel program)

In a scenario where Hitler is not the leader and there is no Holocaust, Canaris would have no motivation to this, so maybe they would not stay neutral.

LuKo · Jul 3, 2007

Spain did send a unit of volunteers to fight on the Eastern Front with Germany called the Blue Legion.

Poland sent Lisowczycy against the Protestants in the Thirty Years' War, but haven't fought in this war, just as Spain haven't fought in WWII.

vidimce · Jul 15, 2007

Saying Germany had luck in WW2 and was not more powerful then USSR, UK OR USA is a very ignorant and stupid thing to say. Im not a Nazi but I do like to be realist.

The Third Reich was the most technologically advanced nation in WW2. It had a disciplined, well trained and highly nationalistic army. Great Generals, Ambitious and Fanatic leader and a strong industrial sector. Poland was conquered in 30 days or so making it one the swiftest campaigns in military history.

The real problem that Germany had was the Soviets. Over 70 percent of Nazi troops were on the Eastern Front outnumbered and engaged in bloody battles vs the Soviets.

Had hitler not attacked the Soviet Union or had conquered it before the UK and USA started their campaign in the west, all of Europe would be talking Deutche right now.

vidimce · Jul 15, 2007

JediPimp, I just played your scenario.

Things I like:
Not to many units on the map, Units take longer to produce. ( I hate fighting with a stack of 30 panzers, unrealistic)
The load speed is alright.
The timeline and speed of researching. I think its just right. I could be wrong.

Things that need to be improved/changed:
Bigger Europe, there are world maps with bigger Europe. The most important WW2 battles happened in Europe.
Include France, still a lot of fun to conquer France from scrath, Poland too. Or to play as France and try stop Nazi aggression. Optional, not a big deal
Spain should be neutral country in any case and not a part of German territory.
Historical military strength. I know that the numbers are out there somewhere; Germany had 100 divisions, 11 mechanised etc. 11 mechanised ment you should place 7-8 panzers and 3-4 of the SDK armored cars.
Germany did not have/use their Jet Fighter in 1940 ! If they did, it would be hell for the Allies and could have turned the tide of the war.
You should place 2-4 bombers .....
Some artilery erm ?
Holy cities ?

And this is just playing with Germany.

That's it so far.
Nice scenario but it still needs a lot of improvement in the historical department and the balance department too.

asioasioasio · Jul 17, 2007

vidimce said:
Saying Germany had luck in WW2 and was not more powerful then USSR, UK OR USA is a very ignorant and stupid thing to say. Im not a Nazi but I do like to be realist. The Third Reich was the most technologically advanced nation in WW2. It had a disciplined, well trained and highly nationalistic army. Great Generals, Ambitious and Fanatic leader and a strong industrial sector

The true is that with begining of war german wasn't fully preapred. Many generals was afraid of invasion to France (that was planned before the invasion to poland) or invasion to poland. The lack of agreement with Poland (they didn't wanted to loose the Gdansk (Danzig) build exteritorial higway from germany to east prussia) and making alliance with France and Great Britain forced Hitler to start thinking about invasion to Poland first (he choosed wisely because west allies used much often phone than guns),

The industrial machine in 30's was in bad shape - it's one of the reason why hitler gained so much popularity so quick. The industry was rising with start of breaking after-ww1 agreements (wich started around middle of 30's) and taking factories in occupied countries (Austria, Czech, Poland, France).

I agree they were much more technically advanced that the rest of the world - some historicians claims that they have complieted nuclear program http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nuclear_energy_project
The usage of rocketry, jet propulsion, advances in tank / ship construction, building assault guns. But you have on the other hand - commonly used Katyusha (BM-13) turning german cities into ruins , cheap and mass produced tanks in Ussr, and Heavy Bombers ruining german cities and industry and A-Bomb in the west allies.

vidimce said:
. Poland was conquered in 30 days or so making it one the swiftest campaigns in military history.

And i could say he had a lot of luck doing this. Poland finished fighting after treacherous attack of Soviet Union - there wasn't any point to defend longer since west allies didn't started war in the west front. The simultaneous attack on Germany on two fronts would finish this war in early 1940 (probably Stalin won't attack in 17th September 1939 when the attack of west allies would be significant)

vidimce said:
The real problem that Germany had was the Soviets. Over 70 percent of Nazi troops were on the Eastern Front outnumbered and engaged in bloody battles vs the Soviets.

Sooner or later would war with ussr start - Stalin was considering such attack on 1942. He was very surprised that hitler made this earlier. For me the real problem for germany was Japan - you can say it's why axis loosed this war - they didn't attacked soviet union on syberia - they would have access to many natural resources than and would make real problem for soviet union. They bringed USA to war - the country with strongest production and economy. And finally they allowed to move troops from syberia to east europe - so stallin defended moscow with fresh reinforcments bringed to europe just in time and allow to take the leading on the front.

vidimce said:
Had hitler not attacked the Soviet Union or had conquered it before the UK and USA started their campaign in the west, all of Europe would be talking Deutche right now.

As one of the german generals said - "elephant amongs the ants sooner or later will die " - the strategic mistake of japanese made that germany outnambered by russian and in war with country with biggest economy hadn't chance of surviving.

Thank you for posting ideas and finding issues

I'm glad you like this scenario - i also find this scenario very good - good work jedipimp

vidimce said:
Germany did not have/use their Jet Fighter in 1940 ! If they did, it would be hell for the Allies and could have turned the tide of the war.

What about this one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_280

vidimce · Jul 17, 2007

Hi Asioasioasio, How you been ? How's the mod coming along ? when can we expect an update?

The true is that with begining of war german wasn't fully preapred. Many generals was afraid of invasion to France (that was planned before the invasion to poland) or invasion to poland. The lack of agreement with Poland (they didn't wanted to loose the Gdansk (Danzig) build exteritorial higway from germany to east prussia) and making alliance with France and Great Britain forced Hitler to start thinking about invasion to Poland first (he choosed wisely because west allies used much often phone than guns),

The industrial machine in 30's was in bad shape - it's one of the reason why hitler gained so much popularity so quick. The industry was rising with start of breaking after-ww1 agreements (wich started around middle of 30's) and taking factories in occupied countries (Austria, Czech, Poland, France).

I agree they were much more technically advanced that the rest of the world - some historicians claims that they have complieted nuclear program http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_...energy_project
The usage of rocketry, jet propulsion, advances in tank / ship construction, building assault guns. But you have on the other hand - commonly used Katyusha (BM-13) turning german cities into ruins , cheap and mass produced tanks in Ussr, and Heavy Bombers ruining german cities and industry and A-Bomb in the west allies.

I didn't go into any historical details. Thnx for filling in. All I am saying is The Third Reich was more or less the SuperPower of WorldWar 2. There is no luck involved as a wise man said once: 'Luck is only when preparation meets opportunity.' You can already percept that I am somewhat impressed with Germany. I am impressed not at the things that Hitler and Germans had done, was/were about to do, I am impressed of the Power this man and this country had. Now that power was used for an evil purpose - an entirely different story. Just like I admire the Tecnhological Power Germans had, so I admire the Courage and love for the Motherland that Russians have, as was the case with Polish too, so I admire the rise of America after the war, etc. SO, i find it insulting when somebody said Germany had luck. Erm capturing a vilage may be luck, Destroying airports with the aircraft still on the ground may be luck, But Capturing most of Europe is Not Luck.

And i could say he had a lot of luck doing this. Poland finished fighting after treacherous attack of Soviet Union - there wasn't any point to defend longer since west allies didn't started war in the west front. The simultaneous attack on Germany on two fronts would finish this war in early 1940 (probably Stalin won't attack in 17th September 1939 when the attack of west allies would be significant)

It's debatable. I think Poland would have fallen either way. What you're missing on out here is that Germany would not attack Poland if it wasn't sure it would be a fast succesful campaign and its western border was safe. It was carefully planned, with assesment of Polish, French, British military capabilities and the decision was made. As Sun Tzu once said: A winner first wins, then goes to battle.

Sooner or later would war with ussr start - Stalin was considering such attack on 1942. He was very surprised that hitler made this earlier. For me the real problem for germany was Japan - you can say it's why axis loosed this war - they didn't attacked soviet union on syberia - they would have access to many natural resources than and would make real problem for soviet union. They bringed USA to war - the country with strongest production and economy. And finally they allowed to move troops from syberia to east europe - so stallin defended moscow with fresh reinforcments bringed to europe just in time and allow to take the leading on the front.

I haven't thought of that since I lack knowledge of what happened in the Pacific. I agree with you completely. Enough said.

What about this one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_280

That plane was still a prototype and wasn't used. And the Jet Fighter I am refering to is the Me 262. I think this scenario starts in 1940 or so and there's 3-4 Me 262s for Germany

Not True.

I can hardly wait for the update Asio. do zobaczenia

asioasioasio · Jul 21, 2007

Witam i Pozdrawiam

vidimce said:
Hi Asioasioasio, How you been ? How's the mod coming along ? when can we expect an update?

Fine thx

I'm working on LH graphics right now - still the number of nations planned for 2.0 is expanding

And update - probably 1st september - but in this case it won't have all the "whistles" planned for 2.0.

vidimce said:
I didn't go into any historical details. Thnx for filling in. All I am saying is The Third Reich was more or less the SuperPower of WorldWar 2. There is no luck involved as a wise man said once: 'Luck is only when preparation meets opportunity.' [...]

Yup you're right it's hard to call it luck (i mean conquering europe) - tough he was risking much - so you can say he was lucky

winning with Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Danmark, Norway, Low Countries and France. As i said german industry and science started to grow in power by this time - 1-2 years more was enough to build superpower and conquer France and be able to start war with USRR. And for sure they're one of the most advance nations (the number of WunderWaffes is good example)

vidimce said:
It's debatable. I think Poland would have fallen either way. What you're missing on out here is that Germany would not attack Poland if it wasn't sure it would be a fast succesful campaign and its western border was safe. It was carefully planned, with assesment of Polish, French, British military capabilities and the decision was made. As Sun Tzu once said: A winner first wins, then goes to battle.

Very probable that Poland would won this war (if i rember well in fourth day of campaign the coomunication transport started to be a problem for Poland - bad organization bringed first looses of strategic key positions. But Germany with allied forces in Saar and in Rhineland-Palatinate could be in real trouble. The war could finish earlier than

vidimce said:
That plane was still a prototype and wasn't used. And the Jet Fighter I am refering to is the Me 262. I think this scenario starts in 1940 or so and there's 3-4 Me 262s for Germany Not True.

I can hardly wait for the update Asio. do zobaczenia

Yup Me-262 was better design so it was choosed for further development.

OK i hope it will be worthy of waiting

Do zobaczenia

jefmart1 · Jul 23, 2007

Keep in mind that the US built more tanks and planes in 1944 then Germany built during the the entire war. It wasn't until Albert Speer took over in 1942 that germany even tried to enter a wartime footing. Factories were still manufacturing luxury goods and retail goods until 1944. They also didn't let women work in the factories and employed slave labor (many of whom sabotaged the munitions they made).

In this scenario, you control the economy (so to speak) and can produce units and advancements to help fight the battle. You don't have to worry about the political environment so much.

Also, American troops were very poorly trained in the beginning and the army was essentially built from scratch. Plus, the game does not take into account the use of tanks in combat. Germany used tanks properly (ironically using British invented tactics) focusing them to hammer holes in the enemy lines and exploit them with infantry.

The French actually had more tanks in 1939, but they split them up amongst the troops as infantry support, as did the British. This rendered them inefffective and allowed the german tanks to smash them piecemeal.

This is not represented in the game, for various reasons. Perhaps starting German units need additional promotions to represent training and doctrinal superiority.

Although later in the game, their individual units are better, even though in real life they made very few of these units.

Narn · Mar 15, 2008

i hope this version is also updated for beyond the sword %=)

asioasioasio · Mar 16, 2008

yup, also

slitghly jmodifies to fit new mod

Narn · Mar 16, 2008

that and the other mod being made for beyond the sword has made my day %=)

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JediPimp

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LuKo

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asioasioasio

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vidimce

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vidimce

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asioasioasio

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vidimce

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