SGOTM 15 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

Ozbenno · Apr 25, 2012

Also think that we should jump in and just play defensive. Clearing Toko will allow us to get all of Kyoto's tiles and it will act as a good defensive city if anyone should decide we are a good target afterwards. Getting an AP resolution to get all the hindus to pile in would also be good.

da_Vinci · Apr 25, 2012

Moot or not, here is the F4 screen on last upload:

Hammy and Genghi are pleased with Toku at that time.

dV

adrianj · Apr 25, 2012

Wow, with all those Toku portraits about, that screenshots is almost useless :lol:

. I'm guessing the real Tokugawa is the second row/first column, which is the least liked of them all. That Hammy and Genghi are the ones pleased with him I'll just take your word for it!

Ronnie1 · Apr 26, 2012

To bed now!

I have finished my set. Will post details tomorrow.

Briefly, Toku is dead! Very short order by Hatsa! We are 2 turns to Philo @ 0% Sci, with enough gold to get through EDU in about 7 turns if we get our GS as hoped.

Upload log

Spoiler :

Sleepless · Apr 26, 2012

Ronnie1

I like the pillaging units which was a very good move. So we lost 2 x -1 for declaring but no neg from Hattie for helping. Shame the war was so short so no war bonus.

There is a way to partly counter this. Hammie has 140 gold and we could sell him theo for it. Would also sell Hattie CoL for the 50 gold. As they haven't researched the tech they can't trade it around. I'd also be tempted to try and convert Hammie to Hindu. He doesn't have that much bud and that will help secure our Northern borders

Notice Liz can now research Lib so don't fancy our chances of being first there. I also think a quick run at 100% science for currency in 2 turns will pay off as well. Finishing philo right now isn't so important as we want to stay in OR for a little while longer whilst getting the required missionaries out and cathederals up.

Last thought am I up?? If so will look to prepare a PPP tonight in about 7 - 8 hours. If no reply I'll assume I am then C63 can pick up the save from Sunday ish.

Sleepless · Apr 26, 2012

Well a few more thoughts.

Well done for popping 2 x gems Ronnie1.

We can road the second one and gives us a couple more resources to sell for cash. Be an idea to get a deer back for the health and will soon have the cows in our culture which will help as well.

Bit scary Hammies stack in the North and Hattie will have a big stack near our Eastern border so might be an idea to try and convert both of them. If it means losing control of the AP I think it would be worth it so both of our borders are relatively safe?

Conquistador 63 · Apr 26, 2012

Last thought am I up?? If so will look to prepare a PPP tonight in about 7 - 8 hours. If no reply I'll assume I am then C63 can pick up the save from Sunday ish.

I say go for it! :goodjob:

Grifftavian · Apr 26, 2012

Sayonara Toku, and well done R1! :hatsoff:

Some thoughts...

If we bump the Science Slider up to 10%, we can finish Philosophy in 1 turn and still make +28 :gold:

/turn for the Treasury.

With the 2 new Gem Mines + the Gold Mine in Patalipurta's BFC, should we consider setting it up as a Wealth City?

I favor using the Great Prophet to build the Christian Shrine in Bombay.

Ronnie1 · Apr 26, 2012

Autolog

Spoiler :

The 2 gems popping had me build a Library up there for the move to 100% Science.
I did build some other Libraries, for both science and culture. I picked up a bit of fail gold on the Great Library.

My bad on the Deer, forgot we were giving those away.

I had 2 Hindu missionaries fail to spread in Hammies capitol.

Our pop is growing, not even sure we would lose control of the AP if we are able to convert them.

What is scary is our tech situation. We are so far behind.

Hatty has a big stack on or border now. We may have to build more military eventually.

We met Shaka of course, and also Cyrus.

I figured I might as well pillage the cottages for the gold!

Some screen shots I took.

EDIT: X-posted with Griff. Forgot about the Great Prophet. He is the 2nd GProphet in my set, we actually had better than 60% odds of an artist on that one. The Christian shrine was already built with the first GProphet. I was thinking save this one for a Golden Age maybe? :dunno:

Ronnie1 · Apr 26, 2012

Go ahead and play sleepless, we need to keep moving!

Grifftavian · Apr 26, 2012

r1 said:
EDIT: X-posted with Griff. Forgot about the Great Prophet. He is the 2nd GProphet in my set, we actually had better than 60% odds of an artist on that one. The Christian shrine was already built with the first GProphet. I was thinking save this one for a Golden Age maybe?

I didn't see that the Christian Shrine had already been built. :blush:

Options for the Great Prophet are...

Golden Age
discover (bulb) Monarchy
settle in one of our cities

Other than being the prerequisite for Feudalism, Monarchy doesn't buy us too much. I like using him for the Golden Age as well.

Sleepless · Apr 26, 2012

Tentative PPP

City Builds.

Delhi Bud Missionary - Bud Missionary - Hindu Mandir (or Bud missionary if fail to spread) - Christian Cathederal.

Bombay Bud Mission - Hindu Mandir - Christian Cathederal

Varanasi Bud Temple - Hindu missionary - Max artist specs once temple finished.

Vijay Max science specs so philo in 1 and GP born in 4. Poss artist or scientist. Change courthouse - bud temple. Once GP born if artist stay on science specs. If GS back to courthouse - hindu missionary.

Agra change to Hindu monastery - Christian temple if spread (if not will need another missionary from somewhere to be decided.

Tokyo courthouse - bud temple (when converted) - hind missionaries for Hattie.

Osaka Bud temple - Christian Temple - Hindu missionaries for Hattie.

Patil - Hindu Missionary - Bud temple when converted - Hindu Missionaries/Mil

Kyoto Temple - Lib - Nat Epic

Tec Path

We need Philo - Paper - Edu - Lib - Drama

Plus What I would like us to get is. Currency - Monarchy - Feudalism (for Long Bows).

Tech Path Philo - Currency @100% self funded by selling Theo and Col - Paper - Edu - Lib - Drama. Inserting Mon/Feud at some point. If we can get to trade with a hindu Hammie/Hattie it will be a big help. Plus as well once we start pumping out the culture its going to cause problems along the way with border tensions.

A couple of thoughts with all the world hating us (ish)

I don't like having a big bank balance in case someone comes asking for it especially when we are weak militarily. Missionaries are they more likely to spread if we gift them rather than try to convert ourselves?

Worker Actions. Need to road gem in Palit and the hill to the West. Carry on building the fort in the grass forest. Other workers carry on farming/mining.

GP save for future golden age.

Civics no change planned as staying in OR for buildings/missionaries and still gives us the option of a quick change to slavery if attacked etc.

Resource trades. Stop Deer to Hammie and change to Gems. Gems to Cyrus for 8 gpt as we will soon have our own again and no need of happines now.

Stop points.

If we get declared on or anything else bad that happens.

If someone goes WHEEOH I would be tempted to head for feudalism asap as LBows are the best city defenders we are likely to see this game.

Sleepless · Apr 26, 2012

Ronnie1 said:
What is scary is our tech situation. We are so far behind.

Besides Liz we aren't that bad. Of course the problem is we can't trade for anything. We are very close to paper and philo and Edu not that far off if we get a GS.

What I am worried about mostly atm is our military which is why I would prefer to convert our neighbours if we can.

da_Vinci · Apr 26, 2012

Sleepless said:
What I am worried about mostly atm is our military which is why I would prefer to convert our neighbours if we can.

Are you losing sleep over it? :mischief:

Could ... not ... resist ...

dV

da_Vinci · Apr 26, 2012

Let's review the global aj wisdom:

Per aj: Phases of the game remaining:
1) Tech to Music. Build Sistine Chapel. Still growing cities and building infrastructure. Done :goodjob:

2) Tech to Philosophy. Switch to Pacifism. Start assigning artists under Caste System. (and scientists in one city for Education). The artists are a significant source of science under rep. Almost there ...

3) Tech to Liberalism, get there first and take Nationalism. Switch to Free Speech. Start completing Cathedrals.

4) Tech to Drama. Turn down science slider for culture slider. Maximise Culture.

Question 1: How important is nationalism, since we might not get to Lib first?

Question 2: What % of the total game do we think each phase is? I hope it is not 10%, 5%, 10%, 75% ... :eek:

... given the time remaining.

dV

Sleepless · Apr 26, 2012

@Grifftavian thats why I thought of the name and all the "sleepless" nights this game has given me since Civ1.

AJ's wisdom.

1. Done.

2. Philo nearly in but still lots more big builds to come i.e the cathederals so will stick in OR for my turnset.

3. I don't think we have any chance of Lib unless Liz goes a different route. I expect after Edu she will go economics then Lib or vice versa. Either way I don't think we will catch her. We do need Lib for the FS. Nat mainly for the Hermitage but not essential.

4. Drama still long way off. :sad:

5. Still long way to go for 50,000 culture per city but hopefully not 75%.

adrianj · Apr 26, 2012

Wow! Those Gems! I'm starting to wonder if Patal isn't a better choice for Legendary #3.

Nationalism is really quite important. It enables the Hermitage National Wonder, which is great culture for Delhi. If we are there fast enough then we could also have a good chance at building Taj Mahal. Finally, it allows Nationalism civic, which is a great Panic Button for a Spiritual Civ under attack.

I like the idea of using the new GProphet for a Golden Age. It just might help us win the race to Liberalism. Liz is pretty advanced... so it might not work out anyway. But now seems as good a time as any to launch a golden age.

It's almost always a better idea to get to Liberalism ASAP and worry about building Cathedrals once you get there. A cathedral gives +50% culture. Free Speech gives an immediate +100%, and we can start worrying about the :culture:

slider.

I agree that converting our neighbours would be a real bonus. Losing control of the AP isn't quite so bad, provided the ones that are in control are our allies. If we can just spread it into their capitals... Maybe we should pick up Alphabet fairly soon and try to espionage them into Hindu?

adrianj · Apr 26, 2012

If someone goes WHEOOHRN... :lol:

Someone other than half the known AIs?

About the big Bank Balance. We could probably run along at some fraction of :science:

slider, ie, drop the binary research policy. The binary research method has a few benefits:
* Less wasted research if an AI learns something and we trade for it.
* Libraries/Universities/OxU are about to be built in a concise bunch.

Neither of those really apply to us this game. So I am all for dwindling away our cash reserves and setting the slider to keep it small.

Missionary spreading vs gifting - I can't think of any evidence to suggest gifting them would improve their chances of succeeding. It could potentially reduce the chances if the AI decided to send them to the wrong city (eg, not the capital) or put them to sleep for some bizzare reason.

Sleepless · Apr 27, 2012

Not sure about running a golden age now. The only real advantage to us being spiritual will be the extra gp points we can produce (obv a benefit to commerce/hammers). To get to Lib we need to finish philo.

Philo beakers needed approx 100
Paper 975
Edu assuming a bulb approx 1200
Lib 2184

Nearly 4500 beakers and I can't see us beating Liz to Lib when were producing 275 per turn which we can run for about 5 turns. Breakeven approx 110 per turn though the Golden Age will help.

Any thoughts about my PPP? Going for currency etc. Selling techs cheap?

Ozbenno · Apr 27, 2012

I also think we are best leaving the GA for later. As we are spiritual, the main advantage is double GP points, which we can use better later I think.

SGOTM 15 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

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