SGOTM 15 - One Short Straw

Mitchum · Mar 28, 2012

I played LCs test game forward and this is what I had at the gates of Kyoto ready to attack that turn. I never did attack and all cats bombarded instead. BTW, I got lucky and didn't lose any units to the two archers in Osaka, so we could easily have 1 less cat.

T86: 6 axes, 6 cats
T87: same
T88: 7 axes, 10 cats, 64% city defense (I forgot to record this for the first two turns)
T89: 8 axes, 10 cats, 44%
T90: 9 axes, 10 cats, 24%

All cities were on auto pilot, meaning I did no chopping, whipping, etc but just slowly built units. We could have more if we actively managed GEL for sure. For example, I never did finish the spear in GEL because I was just focused on getting units to the front lines... and a bit lazy.

I did not use any of Zlatorog's axes.

I got dog piled by both Louis (who I had just met) and Hammy.

We're threatening Kyoto and Toku is only willing to give Fishing and Archery. He won't even give IW. I guess we need to get the kills in Kyoto and threaten the next city before we can get Alpha, IW and Archery.

EDIT: Kyoto has 6 units in it. Two archers, two axes and two spears. Could easily be 6 archers in the real game. There were four units there on T86.

Dhoomstriker · Mar 28, 2012

Mitchum said:
Why did you have Worker 3 road Delhi-NW on T80? He could just as easily go straight to the GHill and chop straight away. I could see building this road if you then followed it up by another road at Delhi-2NW to connect NC to Delhi and get the road going to the NW toward Zlatorog.

Yeah, that's what my adendum after the PPP was about... I planned to build this second Road piece but forgot about that step when writing up the PPP.

Neither Road piece will be of immediate use if we don't send the Zlatorog Axe toward the east.

Mitchum said:
There is also a partial mine and Delhi-W that we could complete, although I think farms are more important there.

I thought about it, as completing more Mines negligibly increases our chances of popping a Resource, but I think that our Workers have more interesting things to do than just complete Mines for this sole purpose.

We're not really going to have citizens to work a Mine at Delhi for a number of turns anyway (only when we complete the Great Scientist will we need extra squares for our citizens to work), so we can always complete the Mine in the future.

Mitchum said:
I thought we wanted to keep the axe built in Zlatorog to stay there in case of a DOW by Hammy. If we move this axe toward Toku, we may have to whip Zlatorog. Like LC, I'd prefer to grow Zlatorog into working more farms/mines.

I was trying to get as many forces as possible heading to the east. Our primary goal right now is capturing Kyoto and getting Alphabet as part of the Peace treaty. Anything above and beyond these things are nice-to-have but aren't our primary goals, unless I miss my mark.

Mitchum said:
I prefer a farm to a mine in Marble City. With an MP there after killing Toku's stray archer, it still has some growth/whipping available to it.

Don't worry, we'll get that Farm, just not immediately... give it a few turns.

Mitchum said:
Your current PPP has you building a cat, not an axe, in NC.

Well, trust the PPP then, since I don't have the game open in front of me.

We need a certain minimum number of Axes and it is nice to have a couple of extras. However, every Cat that we replace with an Axe (up to a certain limit, like 12 Cats) could cost us 1 to 2 more Axes dying.

Is working the Gem Mine for 1 extra turn really so important?

Mitchum said:
Zlatorog will grow to size 4 on T83 if we don't whip there.

A compromise solution would be that if the NW Warrior doesn't spot any incoming Barb units, we can send the Zlatorog Axe to the east, but without Roads to help him out.

Instead, we can send Worker 3 directly to the GHRiv For that is SE + E of Zlat and we can Chop out our next Axe, rather than whipping it, unless a Barb unit gets close enough to pressure us.

The only downside is that we'll want to Farm the GRiv, which means no Roads to the west of Zlatorog to help make up for lost time thanks to Chopping the Axe.

A third possibility is that the Zlat Worker (Worker 4) and Worker 3 could go and Chop the GHRiv For that is SE + E of Zlat, then both go and Farm Zlat.

Anyway, think a bit about some of the alternative options and let me know what you'd ultimately like to go with.

Mitchum said:
The axe in Zlatorog will take 9 turns to get to Osaka and 12 turns before he could assault Kyoto.

Are you counting the 2 Road pieces that Worker 3 could optionally make?

LowtherCastle said:
a midway point for workers. That's actually what the mine at GEL-2W is...

Heh, well, it seemed like a good time to actually COMPLETE that Mine, since we have a citizen that will otherwise work an unimproved square there.

Mitchum said:
EDIT: Kyoto has 6 units in it. Two archers, two axes and two spears. Could easily be 6 archers in the real game.

I'm rather doubtful that Toku will have 6 Archers, now that he has access to Copper.

Mitchum said:
T90: 9 axes, 10 cats, 24%

Subtracting 1 Cat and probably 1 more Cat or Axe due to likely fighting 3 units in Osaka, we'll be really low on units in our stack. If Hatty comes, we could be in trouble with this amount of units.

What I'd really like to see is far more Cats, but in some cases, getting more Axes from other Cities to the front lines sooner means that we can focus our whipping Cities on building Cats instead of Axes.

LowtherCastle said:
Also, we're still poprushing like crazy: Marble, GEL, Osaka.

So, what are we going to pop-rush in Osaka? 1-pop-whipped Axes/Spears?

Mitchum · Mar 28, 2012

I'm worried about a dog pile from Hammy, which is why I'd like to keep the one, advanced-warning axe and the one we just built in the area... plus the one we're building. I guess with our advanced-warning axe, we'll have time to divert troops to Zlatorog if they are needed. So, if we can safely get our warrior to the choke point (could be aided by the worker there on T80) to stop the flow of barbs toward Zlatorog until our axe is completed (manual or chop preferred to whip), then I guess I'm fine with sending the Zlatorog axe east.

On the Delhi-W mine, I was just bringing it up for discussion. I noticed that most other partial improvements were labeled but this one was not. Maybe you want to add it to the real save. Sure, we'll see it if we hover over the tile, but it's better to be more obvious about it.

Regarding axes, cats, gems and NC, I was proposing that you build an axe instead of the planned cat in NC. That way, the axe will be finished in 1T (the cat was 2T) without having to stop working the gems. Then, if you switch the axe build in Marble City to a cat, the balance of axes/cats will be the same. As you pointed out, it is possible to complete two cats (which are 50H by the way) with a whip and a chop in Marble City rather than two axes with just a whip.

EDIT: Why not 2-pop whip cats or axes in Osaka? It could borrow the corn to quickly grow back... although pop rushing is less efficient without a granary so I'd rather not continue to pop rush Osaka to death.

Mitchum · Mar 28, 2012

If we face 3 units in Osaka, I'd still only expect to lose the first, non-promoted suicide cat (after bombarding with two cats). The second, CRI-promoted cat and the next cat should win, leaving three heavily wounded units that we can mop up with axes. These units may not arrive at the gates of Kyoto on T85/T86, but at least they will still be alive and will be available for the final assult once fully healed.

LowtherCastle · Mar 28, 2012

Dhoomstriker said:
Neither Road piece will be of immediate use if we don't send the Zlatorog Axe toward the east.

Okay, in my test save, the Delhi-2N wkr roaded Delhi-NW, then 2NW and the chopped NC axe used that road immediately. So like Mitchum said, that axe takes teh place of the Zlatorog axe except he's 1t ahead of him and we get those roads instead of chopping the axe in Zlatorog, so that chop can go for something else, like barracks or library. By the way, we seem to have forgotten that the library in Zlatorog would also serve the purpose of expanding the borders.

Dhoomstriker said:
I was trying to get as many forces as possible heading to the east. Our primary goal right now is capturing Kyoto and getting Alphabet as part of the Peace treaty. Anything above and beyond these things are nice-to-have but aren't our primary goals, unless I miss my mark.

That's the purpose of all these suggestions, getting lots of units to Kyoto.

Dhoomstriker said:
Is working the Gem Mine for 1 extra turn really so important?

Yes, but that's not the only point here. It's a matter of working all our best tiles on T80. One way or another, working all the best tiles adds up to the maximum number of units produced, no? You're essentially working a 2f1h tile instead of a 2f1h7g tile. :crazyeye:

In the process you're putting 9f into Marble, which you say is growing too fast and -2f into Delhi, which will be able to work an extra 3f1c or 1f3h much sooner if it grows to pop6 asap.

Dhoomstriker said:
Heh, well, it seemed like a good time to actually COMPLETE that Mine, since we have a citizen that will otherwise work an unimproved square there.

Only if it really makes sense to work that mine now, because we'll need a second worker to help chop one of the Osaka forests by ~T88.

Dhoomstriker said:
So, what are we going to pop-rush in Osaka? 1-pop-whipped Axes/Spears?

Unless Toku poprushes in the next two turns, we'll be able to 2pop either a cat or an axe/spear, depending on what we need. Then add two chops and we can have 2 cats in two turns or a cat and 2 axe/spears in three turns, starting on T88.

---

Bottom line, Dhoom, is that we should test some of these ideas, not just talk about them. I'll have time tomorrow morning to test anything you don't have time for tonight. Just let me know if you want me to test and what.

Some more ideas we might consider testing:
1. I like your idea of completing the GEL spear before 2whipping the cat. That works better with your plan, finishing the mine and growing to pop5 1t slower. Still, we could test it to see how it works out over the 10t cycle, including the chop and any more whips.
2. How about chopping the forest at Delhi-4E before the GEL-2NE-1N forest? The simple reason being, units completed at Delhi take longer to transport, so Delhi needs the hammers sooner. Then we might need two more workers to chop the Osaka forests. (Lot of worker timing/planning needed here.)
3. Will having two workers around Osaka draw units out from Kyoto? Interesting possibility.
4. The more I think about it, the more I agree with you that we should have 2 spears in the Kyoto/Osaka area. That way, if Hatty DOWs, we have one to attack a marauding War Chariot while the other guards the stack, for instance.
5. Our SoD at Kyoto should be at Kyoto-1W so it can see enemy units slipping by.

Mitchum · Mar 28, 2012

This game is so complicated (which is why we all keep coming back for me). Seemingly minor decisions snowball into bigger, more important decisions that affect the overall strategy. We can't take anything for granted. And I thought we'd be able to play the next two turns tonight or tomorrow. :lol:

But it's only two turns...

In any event, let's get this right. It's not just about the assault on Osaka in 2T but having the right mix of units at Kyoto's gates to capture it as efficiently as possible while still protecting ourselves in the NW from Hammy and gaining experience from the barbs.

Based on my quick test game, I think we can expect a fairly quick DoW from Hatty (and possibly Hammy but I'm not as worried about him becasue we know he has no stack close to us), so it would be ideal to have a spear either in our initial assualt on T82 or following 1 or 2 turns behind at most (protected by an axe). We could lose our stack to the 5 :strength:

War Chariots in no time if we're not prepared.

Dhoom, it looks like you have enough to keep yourself busy tonight.

Let us know if you need help testing anything.

Dhoomstriker · Mar 28, 2012

Mitchum said:
So, if we can safely get our warrior to the choke point (could be aided by the worker there on T80)

So, that comes back to this question: do we know whether or not a Barb unit could be lurking next to the chokepoint?

Mitchum said:
So, if we can safely get our warrior to the choke point (could be aided by the worker there on T80)

Good call, thanks.

Mitchum said:
EDIT: Why not 2-pop whip cats or axes in Osaka? It could borrow the corn to quickly grow back... although pop rushing is less efficient without a granary so I'd rather not continue to pop rush Osaka to death.

As long as GEL isn't running out of spare Happiness to whip, then we get nearly double the efficiency of any Food gained in GEL compared to any Food gained in Osaka.

I'm actually tempted to just straight-up build a Granary (instead of units) in Osaka, but an alternative is to 1-pop-whip at Size 3 and again at Size 2, simulating the case of us having captured a Size 1 City.

Mitchum said:
If we face 3 units in Osaka, I'd still only expect to lose the first, non-promoted suicide cat (after bombarding with two cats).

Expect all that you want, but if the stack defender does not get wounded by our first Cat, then we'll almost certainly lose our second Cat.

Even if the top defender is wounded, with City Raider I, we'll probably still only have a 70% chance of winning (or is it a 70% chance of retreating?), so again, even if we get lucky in the first battle, we could lose the second battle.

LowtherCastle said:
Okay, in my test save, the Delhi-2N wkr roaded Delhi-NW, then 2NW and the chopped NC axe used that road immediately.

Yes, you're right.

LowtherCastle said:
By the way, we seem to have forgotten that the library in Zlatorog would also serve the purpose of expanding the borders.

So, should we even build another Axe in Zlatorog or should we build a Library next?

LowtherCastle said:
Only if it really makes sense to work that mine now, because we'll need a second worker to help chop one of the Osaka forests by ~T88.

If we're not whipping GEL soon and want to grow to a nearly-full Foodbox at Size 4 or even grow to Size 5 before whipping, then yes, we want to complete the Mine that is 2W of GEL.

The whole point of Worker turns is to get your citizens working better squares. "Saving future Worker turns" at the cost of our citizens working inferior squares now goes against the concept of the true value of our Workers. So, yeah, we'll Mine it.

LowtherCastle said:
Unless Toku poprushes in the next two turns, we'll be able to 2pop either a cat or an axe/spear, depending on what we need.

Gah, the test game has him at 4 pop but the real saved game has him at 5 pop. No wonder you guys are talking about having such an easy 2-pop-whip.

I was thinking that we'd have to first grow Osaka to Size 4 before we could 2-pop-whip.

LowtherCastle said:
1. I like your idea of completing the GEL spear before 2whipping the cat. That works better with your plan, finishing the mine and growing to pop5 1t slower.

We could also 2-pop-whip at a nearly-full Size 4 Foodbox, not work the Corn for 1 turn, but probably come out close to Food-neutral (maybe we would be behind by 1 Food?). Maybe we would save some Commerce on Maintenance Costs?

LowtherCastle said:
2. How about chopping the forest at Delhi-4E before the GEL-2NE-1N forest? The simple reason being, units completed at Delhi take longer to transport, so Delhi needs the hammers sooner.

Sure, that makes sense.

LowtherCastle said:
5. Our SoD at Kyoto should be at Kyoto-1W so it can see enemy units slipping by.

Ideally, we will also cut the Road connection at Kyoto-1NW and if there is one in the real game at Kyoto-1SW, cut that one, too. Doing so greatly reduces the mobility of AI units and allows us to more brazenly bring in Workers to Osaka.

Mitchum · Mar 28, 2012

When I say "expect" related to our battles, I'm going based on the odds and assume that anything over about 70% is an expected win. Sure, we could lose any battle, including a 99% battle. I'm just playing the odds when I "expect" things, that's all. BTW, you and I would be rich if we had 70% odds in Vega$.

A library in Zlatorog would be nice, but my opinion is that we need to continue building units, a rax and/or a forge for the near term. Plus, I'd rather not whip anything there until we have two axes that can get to the choke point relatively quickly in the event of Hammy mobilizing for war. In the event of a dog pile, those pops could save our bacon... Mmmmm... Bacon!

@Dhoom Is your plan to update your PPP with our latest discussions with the goal of playing tomorrow? Or is there a lot more to iron out before we can consider that? If you list any open items related to your turnset (i.e. unanswered questions, tests needed, etc.), we can discuss and agree on those so that we can keep the ball rolling. I'm excited to see Toku's head roll if you haven't noticed... :mischief:

Dhoomstriker · Mar 29, 2012

Random comments:
1. Technically, we could Chop the Forests on both Deer. Since the Deer are both on a River, we'd be trading 1 Hammer per turn for 1 Commerce per turn.

Both Zlatorog and Deer + Cow Cities have plenty of GH squares to work, so it's not like either one will be hurting for production in the long run.

Since the Deer + Cow's Deer gives 24 Hammers to Delhi (as opposed to 30 Hammers to a future Deer + Cow City), I'm tempted to Chop it now. Deer + Cow will have several GH Mines, so we won't really need that extra bit of production.

Also, since we'll have 1 + 3 + 4 * 3 = 16 base Hammers in Zlat once we've grown large enough to be working all of the GH Mines, we will have a divisible-by-4 amount of Hammers even if we Chop the Deer's Forest.

So, yeah, bye bye to those Forests, muahahahaha!

2. Binary Science is good for avoiding rounding errors when we have 4 Scientists hired with the Library bonus, since 3 Flasks * 4 Scientists * 0.25 bonus = 12 * 0.25 = 4 (no fractional loss).

So, since we have no plans to start work on Forges ASAP, I'll go for 0% Science on T82, giving us Metal Casting in 2 turns instead of in 1 turn from T82.

3. If we're insisting upon working the Gem, then we could just continue to build the Spearman in NC instead of building an Axe there.

4. It does seem that we gain +2 Food (3 from the Corn - 2 from growing + 1 from the Farm = 3 - 2 + 1 = 1 + 1 = 2) by growing GEL to Size 5.

5. I'm busy redoing the PPP by following a lot of LC's saved game's approaches.

Dhoomstriker · Mar 29, 2012

Revised PPP

Turn-by-turn procedure:
1. Manually save the game
2. Check out the Espionage Spending screen and confirm whether or not we need to adjust our Espionage Weighting in order to maintain Demographic info on Hammy
3. See if I can make heads or tails out of the Sabotage production stuff
4. Look at the F4 screens to see if anything interesting changed
5. Check if any AI goes WHEOOHRN manually each turn in case the fist icon bug is real
6. Add a missing sign for the partial Mine at Delhi 1W
EDIT: 7. Check to see if any enemy units have snuck into our empire and are threatening mischief.
8. Anything else?

T80, 875 BC
High-level summary:

Zlatorog will keep its Axeman near it.

NC's Axe will deal with Toku's Archer in the south-west and our Warrior will go to help out in case we fail in our attack.

Stuff to do:
Gift Mysticism to Toku
Possibly gift a Resource to one of the AIs if we can trade with them???
Rename units and number the Workers that aren't already numbered

Citizens and Builds:
Delhi: NW + W Copper, Corn, Farm, 2 Sci (Farm instead of the SE + S Copper); Cat
Zlatorog: Deer, Farm, Gold (no change); Axe (no change)
GEL: Sheep, Farm, GH Mine, Gold (GH Mine instead of GRiv); Spearman (since we aren't whipping, we'll finish the Spearman manually and can still put Hammers into a Catapult in time to whip it)
NC: Pig, Gem, 2 Sci (no change); Spear (because why not build a Spear here since we already have some Hammers invested in it and this unit might arrive in the east a bit later in the war, probably around the time that we might want a Spearman arriving)
Marble City: Flood Plains, Farm, GRiv For, NE + N Copper (NE + N Copper instead of a GRiv); Cat

Units:
Worker 0 (SW + S of NC): 1E GRiv For (2S of NC) and finish the Chop
Worker 1 (1N of Marble City): Farm and Stop (so that we can Chop the Forest in 2 turns and we'll probably just finish the Farm after that, followed by moving to the GHRiv to Mine it)
Worker 2 (2W of GEL): Finish the GH Mine
Worker 3 (2N of Delhi): 1SE GRiv (1NE of Delhi) and Farm (okay, we can actually get Worker 0 to help in the north while Worker 3 starts Chopping the GHRiv For Deer into Delhi , while also getting Delhi its Farm. Since we aren't sending units from Zlatorog to GEL, we don't care so much about building a Road between Delhi and Zlatorog right now. In fact, the piece of Road that can be in place for the Spearman being built out of NC next turn won't actually get our Spearman next to Kyoto any faster, since the extra half-turn of movement won't make a whit of difference once we reach Toku's Cultural Borders)
Worker 4 (1W of Zlatorog): SE + S (2S of Zlatorog) and Farm

EDIT: NC's Axeman SE + S to the GRiv (2W of the GRiv Corn)
Delhi's Axeman heads toward GEL
Axe that is SE + SE of Delhi heads toward GEL
Cat that is W + W of GEL moves into GEL
EDIT: Warrior on the GRiv Sheep moves 1SW into GEL
EDIT: The units in GEL Skip their turn
Warrior 1W of Zlat moves 1W onto the GRiv
The Axe in Zlat moves 1NW onto the Deer
Axe in Marble City: NE + NE (1E of the GRiv Copper)
Warrior in Marble City: NW GRiv For

T81, 850 BC
(Toku's Archer is on the GRiv For S + S + S of NC)

Stuff to do:
NC: Spear -> Axe

Citizens and Builds:
Delhi: Corn, Copper, Copper, 2 Sci (SE + S Copper instead of the Farm); Cat still (complete in 1 turn, growth in 5 turns)
Zlatorog: Deer, Farm, Gold (no change); Axe (not whipping unless Hammy forces our hand)
GEL: Sheep, Farm, GH Mine, Gold (no change); Spear (complete in 2 turns)
NC: Pig, Gem, 2 Sci (no change); Axe
Marble City: Flood Plains, Farm; Cat: 2-pop WHIP

Units:
Worker 0 (S + S of NC): Auto-move NE + N + N (1NE of NC) Cottage and Stop (just killing time so that we can get close to Zlatorog to help Worker 4 with the GRiv Farm)
Worker 1 (1N of Marble City): Farm and Stop the GRiv (1 more turn to go on the Farm after this turn)
Worker 2 (2W of GEL): NE + N GRiv (NW + N of GEL) and Cottage and Stop (on our way to the GRiv For that sits on the Deer + Cow City future location)
Worker 3 (1NE of Delhi): Complete the GRiv Farm
Worker 4 (2S of Zlat): Keep Farming the GRiv

NC's Spear moves SE + SE to the GRiv (1W of the GRiv Corn)
Two Axes SE + SE of Delhi to the GH Mine W + W of GEL
Axe 2W of GEL moves into GEL
Cat in GEL moves 1E then joins the stack
EDIT: The stack of 6 Cats, 4 Axes, and 1 Warrior moves 1E to 1E of GEL and Skips its turn
The Scouting Axe by Hammy probably heals if the Barbs attacked him but may move SW toward the Coast
Axe near Zlat (on the Deer) does whatever makes senseBarb unit
Warrior that is 2W of Zlat does whatever he needs to do... join with our Axe if we're defending from a Barb, stay there scouting the sea, or whatever
Axe in the south-west moves 1SW to the GHRiv
EDIT: Warrrior in the south-west moves 1SW to the GRiv For

T82, 825 BC
Stuff to do:
Delhi: Cat -> Cat
Marble City: Cat -> Cat
Science Rate to 0%

Citizens and Builds:
Delhi: Corn, Copper, Farm, 2 Sci (no change); Cat -> Cat (complete in 7 turns, growth in 2 turns)
Zlatorog: Deer, Farm, Gold (no change); Axe (growth in 1 turn)
GEL: Sheep, Corn, GH Mine, Gold (switch the Farm to a Corn); Spear (complete in 1 turn, growth in 2 turns--we could optionally work the Farm instead of the GH Mine, but honestly, we're already at our Happiness cap, so going for raw Hammers seems like a better choice)
NC: Pig, Gem, 2 Sci (no change); Axe (complete in 7 turns, growth in 7 turns)
Marble City: Flood Plains, Farm, NE + N Copper (GRiv For -> NE + N Copper) (grew to Size 3); Cat

Units: EDIT: Don't actually perform the Worker actions until after the fighting
Worker 0 (NE of NC): Move N + N GRiv (2S of Zlat) and Farmand Stop
Worker 1 (1N of Marble City): 1W GRiv For and finish the Chop (58/50 Hammers in a Catapult)
Worker 2 (NW + N of GEL): Move NW to the GFor and Chop
Worker 3 (NE of Delhi): SE + SE to the GHRiv For Deer
Worker 4 (S + S of Zlat): Farm and Stop the GRiv

Assuming that we own the Corn, we'll be attacking Osaka and attacking Toku's Archer on the GBanana.

EDIT: Tentative attack plan:
Bombard with 3 Cats
Unpromoted Cat
If a CRI Cat gets 70% or better odds against the top defender, attack with it, otherwise attack with an unpromoted Cat
The other Cat that hasn't attacked
Up to 4 Axes attack
Toku's Archer in the SW gets its butt kicked by our Axe, and if we fail but the Archer is badly wounded, we'll follow-up with our Warrior (worst case, we'll lose both units and will have our Spearman nearby)

Dhoomstriker · Mar 29, 2012

Here's the corresponding saved game. I had to delete some attachments from other threads in order to be able to upload this file.

LowtherCastle · Mar 29, 2012

Good morning!

1. Yes, a barb could be lurking just beyond the choke point. I goofed up moving the warrior back into our culture rahter than next to the lake. Let's play it safe.

But there could be more coming in 2 turns so I don't see any safe way to send our current axeman toward Kyoto without forcing us to poprush.

2. I'm not talking about building a library now. I'll talking about saving the chop for the library. I think we want at least one more axe to run cover for our 10XP-generating axe. Two full strength barb archers in a stack or in a row could be trouble.

3. I don't think the spearman at NC arrives as soon as spears are needed. Better to build a second spear instead of an axe at Marble or something. The NC Edited: ~~spear~~ axe arrives closer to the time it's needed for the final Kyoto battle. Edit2: Actually, I'm not sure which would get there sooner, so maybe spear is better. Needs to be checked. If Hatty DoWs soon, we don't want to be caught with our pants down.

xpost

LowtherCastle · Mar 29, 2012

One obvious but easily missed detail for every turn: Check to see if any enemy units have snuck into our empire and are threatening mischief.

Dhoomstriker · Mar 29, 2012

Saving a Chop for a Library could work slightly even better if we manage to get Organized Religion and if Hinduism actually spreads (or is manually spread by us) in Zlatorog.

LowtherCastle said:
I think we want at least one more axe to run cover for our 10XP-generating axe. Two full strength barb archers in a stack or in a row could be trouble.

Agreed, but should we be planning on whipping it or just manually building said second Axeman?

LowtherCastle · Mar 29, 2012

I think just manually. Much better for us if we can avoid whipping. We lost some food chopping the exploring axe rather than the granary. Now that exploring axe can regain that food by telling us if and when we need to be concerned with whipping. Plus: Not for these two turns, but we could build that axe to 1t from completion and then attempt to complete the barracks before needing the axe.

LowtherCastle · Mar 29, 2012

Also: Before I forget again, the warrior and all our units at GEL should be in GEL on T80 (rather than GEL-1E). Although this is peace time, I'm concerned that us having any unit within two tiles of Osaka might compel it to build or garrison more units. Maybe folklore, since I don't know the code, but we lose nothing by putting those units in GEL rather than GEL-1E, right (on T80 only of course).

Dhoomstriker · Mar 29, 2012

LowtherCastle said:
3. I don't think the spearman at NC arrives as soon as spears are needed. Better to build a second spear instead of an axe at Marble or something. The NC Edited: ~~spear~~ axe arrives closer to the time it's needed for the final Kyoto battle. Edit2: Actually, I'm not sure which would get there sooner, so maybe spear is better. Needs to be checked. If Hatty DoWs soon, we don't want to be caught with our pants down.

xpost

The unit Chopped from NC will arrive next to Kyoto on T89 based on the current PPP. We'd need two additional Road segments in order to speed up its arrival by 1 turn.

Let me know if you'd rather that it be an Axeman, because it can be. If you'd rather have me building a Spear somewhere else instead of an Axeman, also let me know which City you'd like it to be built from.

LowtherCastle · Mar 29, 2012

Dhoomstriker said:
Revised PPP
T81, 850 BC
Units:
Worker 0 (S + S of NC): Auto-move NE + N + N (1NE of NC) Cottage and Stop (just killing time so that we can get close to Zlatorog to help Worker 4 with the GRiv Farm)

He might as well cottage NC-1NE (STOP). You never know... Oops. I mis-read this. You already have him cottaging. Duh. :wallbash:

I'm fine with everything else, Dhoom.

xpost

LowtherCastle · Mar 29, 2012

Dhoomstriker said:
The unit Chopped from NC will arrive next to Kyoto on T89 based on the current PPP. We'd need two additional Road segments in order to speed up its arrival by 1 turn.

Let me know if you'd rather that it be an Axeman, because it can be. If you'd rather have me building a Spear somewhere else instead of an Axeman, also let me know which City you'd like it to be built from.

I guess if we're building all those cats in Delhi and Marble, the NC spear gets there as fast as anything else.

I'd again not make the worker moves on T82 (like the marble chop), just in case the Osaka battle dictates changes in our plans.

I'm okay with you playing to T82.

Dhoomstriker · Mar 29, 2012

LowtherCastle said:
He might as well cottage NC-1NE (STOP). You never know...

I'm confused... isn't that what I wrote in the PPP?
EDIT: I just saw your edit... nevermind.

LowtherCastle said:
I'd again not make the worker moves on T82

Okay.

Should I pause play before warring on T82 so that we can analyze the situation? For example, discuss how many units are in Osaka? Or shall I just proceed with the fighting as planned?

I.e.
Bombard with 3 Cats
Unpromoted Cat
If a CRI Cat gets 70% or better odds against the top defender, attack with it, otherwise attack with an unpromoted Cat
The other Cat that hasn't attacked
Up to 4 Axes attack
Toku's Archer in the SW gets its butt kicked by our Axe, and if we fail but the Archer is badly wounded, we'll follow-up with our Warrior (worst case, we'll lose both units and will have our Spearman nearby)

SGOTM 15 - One Short Straw

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