SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

shyuhe said:

The difference is that declaring on Gandhi slows down the dam by at least a turn, which is a bigger loss than the increase we get from the mining resources and the extra cities.

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That's fine. I didn't realize beakers were that tight. I agree that 3GD is more important.

I just did some rough calculations, and I think we can realistically do the following assuming no major slowdowns (GP RNG, bad WW, etc):

T232 Plastics @ 4100bpt
T239 Superconductors @ 3900bpt
T244 Artillery / Rocketry / Fission / Satellites / Composites @ 6800bpt
T249 Fiber Optics / Fusion / Genetics @ 5800bpt (building parts in top cities on T245-8, so less wealth building)
T252 Launch
T262 Win @ 1760 AD (or is it 1765 AD?)

SS Parts assumptions:
Siberia: (Apollo complete T244-5) + Docking Bay + Stasis Chamber (starts T245)
Hammer City: Engine (starts T246)
Moscow: Engine (starts T246)
GP Farm & Rheims: 2x Casing/Thruster (starts T245)
Bermuda, Canterbury & Fish: Casings/Thrusters (starts T248)
Bahamas, London & Guangzhou: Casings/Thrusters (starts T247)
Hastings: Cockpit (starts T247-8)
Bcool Island: Life Support (starts T247-8)

(I'll post details of this tmr or something)

Anything faster seems impossible or at least very unlikely to me, though our research rate keeps increasing and is difficult to accurately estimate. We might be able to cut some turns off Superconductors, but we also might not reach the 7k in research rate I'm projecting.

We actually don't need the 5GP until T245, which is 2t after shyuhe's projection for GP Farm. Perhaps we could go into FR even sooner?

I like those estimated numbers, although I honestly can't tell what our bpt rate will hit given an empire of this size. Does our beaker rate really increase by 3000 after superconductors though?

I'd like to switch to FR as soon as possible so assuming we get our people, we should be able to switch as soon as GP Farm pops its artist.

How do people feel about me playing 2 turns through plastics so that we can see the state of our empire post-furs? I only ask because I'm a bit worried about the impending deadline (although we can probably chart out most of the remaining turns in the next few days).

Yes and no. The lower rate in Superconductors era is because I'm assuming lower slider for a while - this is where we probably need to make up some ground compared to my estimate. I'm figuring approximately:

Current 100% rate = 4600bpt
20x Research Institute = circa 800bpt (both from 40 free Sci and extra 25%)
Free religion = circa 400bpt (very rough estimate for 100% slider)
Growth/development = circa 1000bpt (we still have a pile of growth in lower and mid-size cities, plus we'll be hiring a higher proportion of Sci later on for existing specs - very difficult to estimate. Like I mentioned we went up about 1300-1400bpt in 0% rate during my 14t TS - mainly from this, but also some new Observatories and what have you)

play the 2 turns, I'm worried about the deadline too.

Siberia conceivable could benefit from a barracks? if by the extra happiness saves a turn off of the dam build.

Also are we going to use the cultural slider? If so theaters and/or coliseums might make sense in a few cities.

An extra scientist pays off the 40 hammers (since we have 100% bonus hammers as creative leader) invested in a coliseum pretty quickly. (4 turns assuming 75% bonus) (pay off is even better for a theater)

Yeah, let's play the 2t today, if you can shy. I think everyone's happy with the PPP+comments. I'd just like to know we're planning on further corp spread.

Edit: I'm concerned, too. We have 15 days now. If shy can play through about 12-14t by Monday or so, then bcool gets all of next week for another 10t of SS build and switch to endgame tactics, and we can hopefully finish the last 7-8t with a triple-check of all fallout tiles in 3 days.

Those aren't bad estimates. Don't forget that the dam will add hammers (i.e., wealth/beakers) too.

The barracks isn't good for overflow. If we're going to overflow into the dam, the hospital is the best building. It doesn't save a turn though

I wasn't really planning on using the culture slider yet, although we may have to reconsider after plastics is completed. My guess is that we'll have to ignore those unhappy guys and just concentrate on getting to superconductors quickly.

Also, what are thoughts about selling techs on the line to ecology to Roosevelt?

babybluepants said:

Yeah, let's play the 2t today, if you can shy. I think everyone's happy with the PPP+comments. I'd just like to know we're planning on further corp spread.

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I'll play the 2 tonight. I can change one of the Indian cities to mining executives and one of the western English cities to mining executives. We won't have the cash to spread it until after plastics in any event.

sell techs to roosy if he has some decent gold (200+?) otherwise I wouldn't gift him the techs until we have fission.

I'm sure you guys saw it, but Alan ok'ed cleaning up fallout and killing Stalin after the SS victory triggers. So I think we're ok back-ending Roosevelt and Stalin, although I'm still very confident we'll complete all of that while the last part is built + SS flight time.

I'm surprised at that ruling by Alan. Makes the game much easier to finish. I'm more inclined now to leave both Gandhi and Roosevelt be until after launch. We obviously wanna be done on the victory turn, but we'll also get there faster without WW.

shyuhe said:

I wasn't really planning on using the culture slider yet, although we may have to reconsider after plastics is completed. My guess is that we'll have to ignore those unhappy guys and just concentrate on getting to superconductors quickly.

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I think the culture slider's an easy calculation - unhappy citizen equals potential Sci. If we gain, what, 200 bpt from 10% slider and we have 200 bpt / Sci*Multiplier < 1 in unhappy, we up culture. Correct? It would be trickier if we had lots of potential excess growth, but I think our main cities are all tapped out with working top tiles and running specs already.

@shyuhe

Continuing from my estimates yesterday, I think we have the following bottlenecks in getting the SS built:

• We're delaying Rocketry, and by extension Apollo. Any turn we can shave off Rocketry is good. We'll need to find a way for Siberia to get Apollo built in 3t, so that we can start on everything else.
• Moscow and Hammer City probably can't build Engines as fast as Genetics and a Siberia Stasis Chamber. We'll probably wanna fine-tune our research to just finish Fusion 2t ahead of Genetics and generate some OF in those two cities.
• We should build Coal Plants in Bcool Island and Haiti just in case.
• Tile conversion: I think we do need more workers. There are a number of tiles in top hammer cities that could produce more hammers. Especially in GP Farm, where we ideally wanna convert everything to workshops on about T+15. In Moscow, for instance, there is a windmill we could convert to a mine and 6 mines we could railroad. Multiple workshops in Siberia and Fish, scrub-workshop in London (workers already there, though), another workshop in Rheims...

Sorry guys, something came up last night and took me out of commission. I'll try again tonight though.

Delaying rocketry is generally not a problem - I normally do this in my SS games and have no production issues at the endgame. And that's with 2 good hammer cities only.

We can build some workers once plastics is in, as it's a struggle balancing the research builds + wealth + 2 turn plastics already...

I usually finish fusion before composites. The casing builds are multiplied by Aluminum and usually can be finished by 2nd tier production cities in the time it takes other cities to finish the engines.

shyuhe said:

Sorry guys, something came up last night and took me out of commission. I'll try again tonight though.

Delaying rocketry is generally not a problem - I normally do this in my SS games and have no production issues at the endgame. And that's with 2 good hammer cities only.

We can build some workers once plastics is in, as it's a struggle balancing the research builds + wealth + 2 turn plastics already...

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Now that we can "afford" to delay our war on Stalin a bit, is it possible to use Moscow to build wealth instead of marines so that some lesser cities can build workers?

I will put Moscow on wealth for two turns and change two of the other minor city wealth builds that can do one turn worker builds to build 4 workers during the two turns on the mainland.

shyuhe said:

I will put Moscow on wealth for two turns and change two of the other minor city wealth builds that can do one turn worker builds to build 4 workers during the two turns on the mainland.

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Sounds good. Those workers will come in handy.

What do you plan to do with our espionage points going forward? I suggest keeping enough on Roosevelt and Gandhi to see which units they have in their cities and to put the rest on Stalin for now.

I don't know what the EP situation is I was going to just focus it on Roosevelt + Gandhi since I doubt we'll get city visibility with Stalin.

We should be able to keep visibility on Gandhi without further investment, or with just 20e here and there. We already have a pile on Roosevelt. I'd get city visibility on Stalin in the next 10t - maybe set for that and rest on Roosevelt.