C2C - Units

here is some advice for a few units:
wrestler- a prehistoric milltary unit
hammerer-yet another military unit
administrator-works like a goverment official on realisim invictus
siege engineer-can build siege weapons on the field of battle(like cannons,catapults etc).
 
siege engineer-can build siege weapons on the field of battle(like cannons,catapults etc).

This idea is good except instead of 'building' siege weapons they should 'repair' them and perhaps be able to build forts and roads also.
Seige weapons shouldn't be able to 'heal' like conventional biological units.
 
here is some advice for a few units:
wrestler- a prehistoric milltary unit Already have it, it's called the Brute
hammerer-yet another military unit Stone maceman, ditto
administrator-works like a goverment official on realisim invictus
siege engineer-can build siege weapons on the field of battle(like cannons,catapults etc).
I don't know if these two are possible without extra coding

Please check the game first to see if suggestions are actually ingame already.
 
This idea is good except instead of 'building' siege weapons they should 'repair' them and perhaps be able to build forts and roads also.
Seige weapons shouldn't be able to 'heal' like conventional biological units.

We have been looking at different types of workers in another thread.

Siege Engineers are a good idea but there is no code to support them at the moment nor for requiring different "healers" to heal different unit types.
 
I don't know if these two are possible without extra coding.

well the code for the goverment administrator could be taken from RI i have no idea where to get the siege engineer, might have to code it yourselves, sorry :sad:
 
perhaps a promotion removing 'damage from terrain' on units in same tile as healer, i don't personally use terrain damage - but could be an idea.
 
I'd like to enable that siege engineer someday... sounds historically accurate for one thing - something like a worker that can tear down a forest to turn it into a wooden siege engine. But its not high priority.

I had a brilliant idea for more promos for healers but its going to take some other concepts being put in place first so it'll have to wait a bit and isn't worth bringing up yet as a result.
 
Over in the Tech Tree thread, it was mentioned that the Wooden Ships are clustered together at certain techs. I started looking to this, and I noticed one odd thing about the very early wooden ships.
  • Galley is a Prehistoric ship, because its only tech prerequisite is Sailing.
  • War Canoe is an Ancient ship, because it requires Archery.
This seems very odd. I think we should do the following:
  • Move Galley tech prerequisite to Ship Building.
  • Move War Canoe tech prerequisite from Archery to Harpoon Making.

Then, are we using the Mesoamerican Galley art (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10042) anywhere? I think this would make a good Sailing Raft (Strength 1, Move 2) available at Sailing. I would also like a Sailing Canoe if we have art. That would bridge the gap between Boat Building and Ship Building.

What do you think?
 
Few more wooden ship suggestions:

Most Ancient ships cost 60 hammers (base). The War Galley costs exactly 34. This seems really out of place. I suggest it be moved back to 60 to match the rest.

Fluyt is part of the cargo ship line (Galley - Cog - Fluyt - Galleon), but it has the "Can Explore Rival Territory" ability. This seems out of place. Is there a reason? Or should can explore rival territory be left to the Caravels?

The ships that are initially coast-bound but can cross oceans later on almost always get this ability at Astronomy. Dragon Ship Pirate gets this ability at Optics. Deliberate decision? I suspect yes, but it did stick out when I made my list.

The Piracy prerequisite for the Sloop of War seems redundant. Piracy is an Ancient technology, and the Compass requirement puts the Sloop of War all the way at the end of the Medieval Era. I would consider dropping the Piracy requirement. The Sloop of War is also really strong for a Medieval-era ship. Its Strength 14 beats out the Strength-10 Fluyt and the Strength-12 Sloop, which are both early Renaissance. Wikipedia's article on the Sloop of War says that those ships date to the 18th century, so I think it should be moved into the Renaissance, probably Navigation + Naval Cannon to match the Frigate.

What is going on with the Spanish Galleon and East Indiaman? They have the "Female unit can't be built but randomly replaces male unit." ability. Especially for the East Indiaman, which is the Dutch Culture Unit, this is strange.

Ship of the Line comes way too late, I think. It requires Military Science, which we have put into the Industrial Era. Could it be moved to Military Tradition or Imperialism?
 
@Vokarya

1. Interesting ideas.

2. I am thinking instead of the Sailing Raft we may want an Egyptian style reed ship. I know there is a model around. I just can't find it. :(

I would just have something available at Sailing, either a raft, a sailing canoe, or a reed ship, and then push the Galley off to Ship Building so it isn't a Prehistoric-era ship, which it is now (even as of the current SVN). I guess no one has gotten to fixing it just yet.

I will do some more looking at the various Wooden Ship lines. The military transport line of Galley, Cog, Fluyt, and Galleon is absolutely solid, with the minor exception of the Fluyt's "Can Explore Rival Territory" when none of the other ships have that. The Prehistoric line is cool too. I just have to look at the warships.
 
@Vokarya

The newer ships (cogs, pirates, etc) and some of the aircraft were put in sloppy so any weird stuff you find is probably not on purpose. Especially when it involves cost, strength and other things. Remember it was converted over from another mod.

Then consider me the troubleshooter. I don't want to step on anyone's toes, so I will post what I find and put it up for debate.
 
Few more wooden ship suggestions:

Most Ancient ships cost 60 hammers (base). The War Galley costs exactly 34. This seems really out of place. I suggest it be moved back to 60 to match the rest.

Fluyt is part of the cargo ship line (Galley - Cog - Fluyt - Galleon), but it has the "Can Explore Rival Territory" ability. This seems out of place. Is there a reason? Or should can explore rival territory be left to the Caravels?

The ships that are initially coast-bound but can cross oceans later on almost always get this ability at Astronomy. Dragon Ship Pirate gets this ability at Optics. Deliberate decision? I suspect yes, but it did stick out when I made my list.

The Piracy prerequisite for the Sloop of War seems redundant. Piracy is an Ancient technology, and the Compass requirement puts the Sloop of War all the way at the end of the Medieval Era. I would consider dropping the Piracy requirement. The Sloop of War is also really strong for a Medieval-era ship. Its Strength 14 beats out the Strength-10 Fluyt and the Strength-12 Sloop, which are both early Renaissance. Wikipedia's article on the Sloop of War says that those ships date to the 18th century, so I think it should be moved into the Renaissance, probably Navigation + Naval Cannon to match the Frigate.

What is going on with the Spanish Galleon and East Indiaman? They have the "Female unit can't be built but randomly replaces male unit." ability. Especially for the East Indiaman, which is the Dutch Culture Unit, this is strange.

Ship of the Line comes way too late, I think. It requires Military Science, which we have put into the Industrial Era. Could it be moved to Military Tradition or Imperialism?

Yes the boat lines are a mess. Most have the same stats as they had in RAND or OV's "Piracy" mod.

My biggest complaint is that triremes, decaremes and quintremes all become available at the same tech but the latter two are much better than triremes.

All the piracy boats needed piracy from the mod it was merged from and piracy kept moving around in C2C.

The Dragon Ship is supposed to be dangerous to pre trireme ships. The Barbary Cousiar Caravels and the "Sloop of War" is supposed to counter the Barbary Cousiar. Note there are two "Sloops of War".
 
I dunno if this has been brought up, but the hunter line units seem a tad too powerful, I was playing on the earth map as Brittan, and my one hunter managed to clear the entire island of all animal life, which is impressive considering I was surrounded by about 20 units all in stacks of at least 4, the first thing he did if I remember right was walk onto a forest and kill about five animals in a row when they attacked him. I have yet to have any human barbs spawn, but now that he has forest 3 hill 2 I am pretty sure he can handle himself.
 
I dunno if this has been brought up, but the hunter line units seem a tad too powerful, I was playing on the earth map as Brittan, and my one hunter managed to clear the entire island of all animal life, which is impressive considering I was surrounded by about 20 units all in stacks of at least 4, the first thing he did if I remember right was walk onto a forest and kill about five animals in a row when they attacked him. I have yet to have any human barbs spawn, but now that he has forest 3 hill 2 I am pretty sure he can handle himself.

Yes it is on my list. The last set of tech tree changes caused the problem. I need unit graphics!
 
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