New Unit Review Notifications

I may need to just chnage its name to like Scout Robot or Scout Bot since I think the name "Droid" is making people think its more advanced than it is.
There you go... yes - Droid has generally been used since AND to indicate units beyond the Mech. I love the new term for more near-future robotics - Bots. I'd think these would generally be humanoid in shape and size usually and their AI might be incredibly imperfect, thus their greatest weakness. But even now the US Army is attempting to develop what under our new terminology would be 'Bot Infantry' units. So if THIS near tech region is what you were thinking with these then yes, the term Bot would be a cool new way to express that.

Well we do have a Nanite Spy unit I could see the Scout Mech upgrading into that or some unit like it. Also we do have Drone Aircraft already in the game too.
True... but remember that spies and non-spies caused issues when one was allowed to be an upgrade to another. We discovered this to be problematic when we were working with the first version of Thieves and Rogues if you recall. Can't remember what all the problems were - only that there were some definite issues there.

Motorcycle (X70) -> ? (X?) -> Walker Droid (X91) -> Scout Droid (X95)
I'd suggest:
Motorcycle (X70) -> Bubble Bike (8X? We do have them now - they're just not commonly utilized in RL for military application but you can see something like them in use in Command and Conquer) -> Walker Droid (X91) -> Scout Droid (X95)
Breach from Bubble Bike to Hover Bike at around the same point as Walker Droid and differentiate the role but retain Recon for both. Reason: AI vs still Human Guided. We also have a (should be established) branch-off from Motorcycle to Lunar Rover but I'm not going to suggest to worry about that until multi-maps. And yes, that's probably a good spot for the Interplanetary Rover such as we have on Mars (and now the Moon thanks to China.)
 
I am not sure what a Bubble Bike is but I have been thinking about ATVs being a good middle unit.

I am not sure where the split would be since we also have a Lunar Rover already in the game that could be useful and there also graphics for Mars robotic rovers. So that would be good to have as well.

So we would have differences between Earth based scouting units and off-plant scouting units.

EDIT: I found a Unit Relationship Chart from Empire Earth. I am not sure how much it will help us but its a start.
 
Bubble bike - not exactly the name I'd like to give it but it's what I was hoping would get the point across... here they call it a 'podbike' which I think does sound better.

By splitting off into Hoverbikes and Walker Droids from there we'd then have robotic and human controlled as well as space explorative scouting vehicles. Makes sense to have all 3 to me.

The more I think about it the more I think it would be good if we could parallel piloted and ai versions of similar units being maintained as close to equal moving forward from the early 'bot' eras of the Transhuman age.

Humans would be more resistant to EMP and we could somehow show how the units would be more 'clever' and inventive as well as discretionary. On the other hand, Robotics would be a bit stronger in general with more accuracy and weaponry since they can manage more weapon systems at once (and not having life support gives them more room to mount weapon systems.)

XP gain would vary greatly between the two types. Humans would be more vulnerable to some effects than robotics and vice versa. I'm sure we can come up with some good differences between them that can enable a yet more complex rock-paper-scissors effect as well. Robots, while more powerful, might be more vulnerable to promotions against them (when you learn how to fight the AI you can trick it into bad decisions...)
 
Yeah I was thinking about the Clones vs Androids type of strengths and weaknesses. EMP is one of the more obvious weaknesses for Robots, but its really not that hard to shield electronics from EMPs (or so I am told). Which kinda sucks since I always liked how in the Matrix their big super weapon against the machines was EMPs.

However then there is the whole computer hacking thing. That is something that is real and would mess up AI if they were corrupted or even worse converted to turn against their nation.

On the other side with the Clones we have the normal human things like biological warfare which the robots would be immune to. Chemical weapons would sometimes hurt robots and nukes basically hut everyone. However if clones are genetically enhanced perhaps biological would not be as effective. Then again if they all are the same you could make a virus that ONLY kills those clones.

And as time goes on in the game were man and machine merge into cyborgs and beyond it would seem that any weaknesses either side had would be given to the new unit. Or perhaps they would work their way to counter each others weaknesses.

Its really hard to say since everything is based on future techs.
 
I could see a 'biological warfare' that functions only against Robots too... Computer Viruses. Robots could also be at risk of reprogramming and thus a true capture. True, some Chemical Warfare weapons could be developed that wouldn't harm Biological entities but would be devastating to Robotics.

Some good brainstorming there H!
 
@TB

I have been doing a mass readjustment to practically all the aircraft. We had some major problems with units going instantly obsolete or even backwards. They should be a lot better now. However I still have not figured out what to do about the Seaplane since its obsolete before its even unlocked.
 
@TB

Its not that simple ...

Seaplane
Req Tech: Naval Aviation
Upgrades To: Propeller Naval Fighter

Propeller Naval Fighter
Req Tech: Aviation

----

Naval Aviation
Req Tech: Mechanized Warfare AND Aviation

----

As you can see the Seaplane comes after the Propeller Naval Fighter, but upgrades to it.

I suppose we could always have it go ...

Propeller Naval Fighter -> Seaplane -> Naval Jet Fighter

However I don't know enough about planes to if that's accurate.

Alternatively we could have both the Propeller Naval Fighter and Seaplane upgrade into the Naval Jet Fighter. That way they could co-exist at the same time.

All I know for sure is the Seaplane should be at Naval Aviation tech.

Anyone have ideas on this?
 
Mechanized Warfare strikes me as being a very modern tech while seaplanes would've been developed much earlier. Seaplanes, as units, should not be a step between two fighter types no matter what. They load on different units entirely. So you'd end up upgrading your fighters on early carriers to find out they can't be carried by the carrier anymore (there's a special boat for seaplanes right now) then upgrade them back to a fighter type and the same problem takes place.

I believe that the development of these planes took place just before carriers were invented and it was as a result of the same effort to find a naval air solution. Carriers and naval propeller fighters would've been right on the heals of the seaplane invention which fairly quickly outdated them but there should be a margin between the two. After that point, seaplanes pretty much just took on a civilian role over a military one.

They should probably maintain some use for a bit and not upgrade directly into the first naval fighters and run concurrent for a while so that while being semi-obsoleted upon the arrival of the first naval fighters, we won't have to (or even be able to) upgrade them so quickly so those planes you built to get that early jump on naval aviation still stay relevant for a while. They'd be well positioned to behave like something between the earliest naval fighter and a bomber. Not as good at interception and perhaps not as strong in air to air battles as a fighter but stronger than a fighter at bombing runs, though not as strong as a full on bomber.
 
Mechanized Warfare strikes me as being a very modern tech while seaplanes would've been developed much earlier. Seaplanes, as units, should not be a step between two fighter types no matter what. They load on different units entirely. So you'd end up upgrading your fighters on early carriers to find out they can't be carried by the carrier anymore (there's a special boat for seaplanes right now) then upgrade them back to a fighter type and the same problem takes place.

I believe that the development of these planes took place just before carriers were invented and it was as a result of the same effort to find a naval air solution. Carriers and naval propeller fighters would've been right on the heals of the seaplane invention which fairly quickly outdated them but there should be a margin between the two. After that point, seaplanes pretty much just took on a civilian role over a military one.

They should probably maintain some use for a bit and not upgrade directly into the first naval fighters and run concurrent for a while so that while being semi-obsoleted upon the arrival of the first naval fighters, we won't have to (or even be able to) upgrade them so quickly so those planes you built to get that early jump on naval aviation still stay relevant for a while. They'd be well positioned to behave like something between the earliest naval fighter and a bomber. Not as good at interception and perhaps not as strong in air to air battles as a fighter but stronger than a fighter at bombing runs, though not as strong as a full on bomber.

Mechanized Warfare is not even in the Modern era on the tech tree. The key techs are ...

X72- Flight | Trench Warfare
X73 - Zeppelins | Rocketry
X74 - Armored Vehicles | Automatic Weapons
X75 - Mechanized Warfare | Aviation
X76 - Naval Aviation | Radar
X77 - Electronics | Globalization
--- Modern Era ---
X78 - Advanced Flight | Computers
X79 - Biological Warfare
X80 - Jet Propulsion | Vertical Flight
X81 - Supersonic Flight
X82 - Advanced Rocketry | Robotics

So right now its like this ...

Spoiler :
Flight (X72)
- Early Fighter

Zeppelins (X73)
- Airship

Aviation (X75)
- Propeller Fighter
- Propeller Naval Fighter
- Propeller Tactical Bomber
- Autogyro

Naval Aviation (X76)
- Seaplane

Advanced Flight (X78)
- Propeller Bomber

Jet Propulsion (X80)
- Early Jet Fighter
- Recon Plane

Vertical Flight (X80)
- Attack Helicopter

Semiconductors (X80)
- Jet Fighter
- Jet Interceptor
- Jet Bomber

Supersonic Flight (X81)
- Hypersonic Recon Plane

Modern Warfare (X84)
- Helicopter Gunship

Guided Weapons (X85)
- Modern Fighter
- Modern Interceptor
- Modern Naval Fighter
- Supersonic Bomber
- Jet Tactical Bomber

Stealth (X86)
- Stealth Fighter
- Stealth Interceptor
- Early Stealth Bomber
- Stealth Helicopter

Communication Networks (X89)
- Stealth Bomber

Unmanned Air Vehicles (X98)
- Drone Tactical Bomber
- Recon Drone

Military Robotics (X94)
- Hybrid Gunship

Hypersonic Flight (X99)
- Hypersonic Fighter

Skyroads (X105)
- Dropship

Orbital Flight (X106)
- Orbital Bomber
- Orbital Fighter
 
Advanced flight for the Propeller Fighter (or Seaplane) sounds ok. But I like TB's suggestion: Make the Seaplane a Figher/Bomber Hybrid and the Propeller Fighter a pure fighter. Maybe we need a Naval Bomber as well...

How does this sound?

Seaplane [Hybrid] (Naval Aviation) -> Aviation Propeller Figher[Fighter] (Advanced Flight) -> Naval Jet Fighter [Fighter] (Jet Propulsion)

Seaplane [Hybrid] (Naval Aviation) -> Naval Bomber [Bomber] (Advanced Flight) -> ???
 
Well the upgrade path is like this so far ...

Fighter Path
Early Fighter -> Propeller Fighter -> Early Jet Fighter -> Jet Fighter -> Modern Fighter -> Stealth Fighter -> Hypersonic Fighter -> Orbital Fighter

Naval Fighter Path
Early Fighter -> Propeller Naval Fighter -> Jet Naval Fighter -> Modern Naval Fighter -> Stealth Fighter -> Hypersonic Fighter -> Orbital Fighter

Seaplane Path
Seaplane -> Propeller Naval Fighter -> Jet Naval Fighter -> Modern Naval Fighter -> Stealth Fighter -> Hypersonic Fighter -> Orbital Fighter

Interceptor Path
Early Fighter -> Propeller Fighter -> Jet Interceptor-> Modern Interceptor -> Stealth Interceptor -> Hypersonic Fighter -> Orbital Fighter

Bomber Path
Airship -> Propeller Bomber -> Jet Bomber -> Supersonic Bomber -> Stealth Bomber -> Orbital Bomber

Stealth Bomber Path
Early Stealth Bomber -> Stealth Bomber -> Orbital Bomber

Tactical Bomber Path
Propeller Tactical Bomber -> Jet Tactical Bomber -> Drone Tactical Bomber

Recon Plane Path
Recon Plane -> Hypersonic Recon Plane -> Recon Drone

Helicopter Path
Autogyro -> Attack Helicopter -> Helicopter Gunship -> Hybrid Gunship -> Dropship
 
Looking at your charting I think you have a good solution on the techs and upgrade progression. I also like Faustmouse's hybrid extension concept.

Perhaps... just maybe, we should actually change the specialunit type we can load on carriers from fighter to Naval Aviation (new category) and specify naval fighter AND bomber types to match.
 
Looking at your charting I think you have a good solution on the techs and upgrade progression. I also like Faustmouse's hybrid extension concept.

Perhaps... just maybe, we should actually change the specialunit type we can load on carriers from fighter to Naval Aviation (new category) and specify naval fighter AND bomber types to match.

Isn't that the case? Then it should be definetly fixed. Otherwise Naval Planes are quite useless... UNLESS you'd give them a strong bonus for bombarding ships, as I think this is the main reason for them.

And btw, even if it makes things like crossing the Atlantic in time more realistic, the huge amount of movement for ships is totally annyoing gameplay wise. The appear out of nowhere and you have no time to react. So could we please reduce the movement for ships greatly?
 
Sea planes, or at least the militarized ones were primarily used in search functions. They were slow, carried multiple crew members and could stay aloft far longer than anything short of 4 engine strat bombers (e.g. B17s). They had secondary roles in anti ship... though only marginally good at it except vs. Subs, and as sea rescue (which doesn't have a civ scale use). They're 2 variants a smaller version that were often carried on battleships and the larger version (e.g. Catalina) which were based in coves, atols and such. It's the larger versions that were considered far more successful.
 
What ever happened to that person who was going to redo the airplanes? Even provided a nice picture of the upgrade paths. Didn't have seaplanes in it though.
 
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