What if Trotsky had won?

1) They declared war but they still did NOTHING.
2) If they put more troops at the beginning, especially their leak at Belgium, they could have stopped the Germans cold.
3) A heartless effort deserves no thanks..
 
Originally posted by Agamemnus
1) They declared war but they still did NOTHING.
2) If they put more troops at the beginning, especially their leak at Belgium, they could have stopped the Germans cold.
3) A heartless effort deserves no thanks..

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
 
Stalin was the worst, most horificly evil leader in history! But his defence of the soviet union in the "great patriotic war" was satisfactory if not effective. It was the bravery of the soviet people that won WWII, though it cost them dearly.

Professor I. A. Kuganov estimates that some 66,000,000 people were killed in the USSR between 1917 and 1953... (This does not) include the 30,000,000 killed in the second world war.. To put this in context the russian federation now has a populattion of 150,000,000 assuming the ravages of communism had never occured the actual population should be about 300,000,000... Robert Harris - Archangel p156

It is safe to say that even if Trotsky could be "a bit cold" or "ruthless" it still would not have amounted to 50% of the population killed for his own glory/peace of mind. Even if trotsky had not been able to modernise the USSR as fast as Stalin he would have had other advantages.
His stance on the spread of international Socialism through revolution would have had a direct effect on the out come of the spanish civil war- Stalin stole the republics gold, took over the military and wasted the lives of the brave spaniards in useless "prestige" operations to show "the profesionalism" of the Soviet Army; His performance did much to raise his reputation with the conservative governments of britain and france, as well as dispell thier fears over the export of Soviet revolution to thier own countries- but it also lost spain to facsism (and through out europe weakend the socialist cause; the only real oposition to the facists), The repubic started the war in a good position, though they were isolated and hated by the rest of europe, britain and france (under presure from british threats "to leave them at the mercy of the axis powers if they didn't do what they were told") organised strong non-interventionist organisation against the republic, while allowing the germans and italians a free hand in arming the Nationalists.
The repuplic, givern suficient aid from moscow and better strategies, could have won the civil war or at least have continued resistance untill war broke out in europe. A victorious repubilcian spain would have been a major victory also for Trotsky and international socialism- though it could easily have turned the british and french against him.

I would like to think that if britian or france had tried to enter the war on the side of the Axis (as oponents of international socailism) it would have meant civil war in one or both those countries, Apeasement was one thing, but alliance with the nazis? I don't think any one would have stood for it.

Imagine the start of WWII in 1938 (the invasion of czechezlovakia would be resisted with aid from russia, and the czechs were actualy in quite a good position to defend against the germans, thier defences in the sudetenland were very formidable) spain is either all republican with some right wing partisans causing trouble, or at least half and half, France is almost certianly in civil war (the country was very unstable at this time, tensions between left and right were strianed to breaking point, it was only the threat of the germans that bought both side together- though it was still an unhappy marige, the communist sabotaged the planes and tanks that were used in the defence of the country because they didn't want to go to war- the Communist propoganda of the time was aimed at non agression). And Britain? The UK would never have been in a position to do anthing apart from defend itself right up to the mid 1940s, the battle of britain could only have been won with help from the americans, who would never have been in favour of aliance with the nazis (whatever you can say about the USA you have to agree that Rosevelt was a good man).

Trotskies Russia would have been hard pressed to defend against the Germans, he didn't foster the same kind of Virulent nationalism favoured by Stalin, but not entering in to the non agression pact would have alowed the rusians to sut up thier traditional "defence in depth" which also would not have been weakend by thier over extention in to Poland (a large area of undefendable land).

Perhaps trotsky would have failed in the defence of Russia, but if he didn't you can bet that the fate of the defeated German people would not have been as bad as it was under Stalin, and that a russia with 100% higher population would have been beter suited to a communist economy.
 
:) Maybe if Trotsky won that battle against Stalin there would be a thread like "if stalin could resist Trotsky what would russia look like" or something of the kind.:(


Unfortunately Trotsky was much alike Stalin - if he came to reign his politics would be the same as Stalin's, maybe Trotsky was smarter, but he didn't belong to so-called "romantic communists" that wanted to create the world without money,the world of equality and friendship. Trotsky was a magnificent commander in chief, but he was very cruel - the discipline in Russian army of 1918-1921 can easily prove it.

So my opinion is that Trotsky couldnt be better than Stalin.
But such persons like Kamenev, Zinoviev, even Lenin (if two of them werent be shoot) could better the situation
 
"Compared to Lenin, Stalin was a lamb"

I think russia, its physical makeup and its history tends to breed a certain sort of leader; Stalins role model was Ivan the terrible.
Yes Trotsky probably was just as bad as stalin when it came to ruthlessnes and he was certainly no romantic, but the real difference was in the way the two people wanted communism to progress; Trotsky's plan, with out the benifit of hindsight, would have been very risky, effectivly making the soviet uniton the enemy of every forien state with its provocative internationalist stance, while Stalin's strategy would have seemed much more safe; Safe indeed if not for the fact that the world was about to be plunged in to 50 years of conflict- from 1939 to 1989 the soviets were in a war of ideoligies first with the germans and later with the whole of the west.
With hind sight, Stalin's strategy of Communism in isolation had most of Trotsky's risks with few of his advantages.

If Trotsky's Russia had survived WWII it would have been in a much better position to start the cold war- if his regime had also managed to get hold of the A-bomb, that is.
 
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