SGOTM 15 - Maple Sporks

There is this quide:
And I've never heard of 2 simultaneous GPs on the same turn...could you please explain a bit more about it?

My understanding is that if two cities both reach the GP threshold (100 points for the first one) on the same turn with the same number of GPs at the end of the turn then they will both spawn Great People. The threshold for the next GP will then go 2 levels up. 300 points for the next GP in this case.

Don't hold me to that however. I forgot that the GW produced culture. :lol:
 
Just opened a bottle of Heineken (currently in Slovakia so no good Czech beer around) and I'm ina mood for some heavy testing once again.

I'm going to try my Axe/spy/GW/Oracle troll rush plan :D

:sad:That's sacrilege! You're the closest of all of us to the country that invented the stuff, and no "pils" around? And then you go drink Dutch marketing-machined beer? At least then get something good like a Grolsch if you want to drink Dutch beer... :lol:

Well, cheers anyway, it's not that bad :)
 
:sad:That's sacrilege! You're the closest of all of us to the country that invented the stuff, and no "pils" around? And then you go drink Dutch marketing-machined beer? At least then get something good like a Grolsch if you want to drink Dutch beer... :lol:

Well, cheers anyway, it's not that bad :)

Don't worry... next week I'll return to the good old http://www.pivovarcernahora.eu/Article.asp?nDepartmentID=176&nArticleID=182&nLanguageID=2#kvasar Unfortunately, they don't seem to export this stuff...

Pils is good and everything, but imo it's slightly overrated.

EDIT: That Grolsch looks great, though I haven't really seen it around.
 
My understanding is that if two cities both reach the GP threshold (100 points for the first one) on the same turn with the same number of GPs at the end of the turn then they will both spawn Great People. The threshold for the next GP will then go 2 levels up. 300 points for the next GP in this case.

This is basically it. It works for more GP's as well, so it's potentially possible to get GP's equal to the number of cities you possess. Practically 2 are not too hard in the early game, for three I really have to pay attention to the micro (EDIT: actually, for three I have to be very lucky, as it doesn't quite work this way).
 
This is basically it. It works for more GP's as well, so it's potentially possible to get GP's equal to the number of cities you possess. Practically 2 are not too hard in the early game, for three I really have to pay attention to the micro, especially with wonder based GP's (specialists are easier, for me at least). More is not really feasible most of the time, though with Caste (and later Pacifism) there are more possibilities.

Can you playtest this and show us your results? I thought this exact case just gives you 1 Great Person and that the second city has to get to 200 GPP.
 
And we should definitely get an EP-count for revolting Kyoto.

I've tested some things in the test-save with regards to EP (following the guide):
Base cost is 650
Distance modifier for Osaka is +11%, for Kyoto +16%
There's no trade route or religion modifier in place.
The spending modifier is hard to determine, but in should be in our favor if we focus on Toku from now on. Let's set it at 100% for a worst-case scenario
That means Kyoto will cost 754 EP before discount. With 5 turns delay-discount, we're looking at 377EP. We have 108 atm, at 4EP/turn, it will take us 68 turns before we'll be able to revolt Kyoto (of course, running EP-slider will cut this way back, if we start running the slider the moment Alpha is in, we should have enough EP once the spies are in place with discount). We should make sure that our the Cap, CrabMarble and GF are poised for spy building though. If we're going for this...
 
Can you playtest this and show us your results? I thought this exact case just gives you 1 Great Person and that the second city has to get to 200 GPP.
I did it last game: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=434118&page=17

However, if I try to set it up in a testgame, it doesn't seem to work :confused: (put a lib in three cities, hire 2 scientists in each, hit enter 9 nine times: voila 1 scientist...) so I'm not completely sure anymore how I managed that.
Can't seem to find anything on the forum either
 
Sorry for the spamming, but I don't want anyone to miss this just because of me editing this into another post:

The multiple GP thing doesn't work :(

In the previous game, I managed to get a city to produce 180gpp in one turn, so the first city reached the treshold (500), upped it to 600, which the second city subsequently broke. I managed three in a solo game once, but that was with NE in one city, running caste+pacifism and another city with GLib (and running scientists). And another high food city starving out a GS as well. In hindsight, it was pure luck those cities popped in the right order. (Also, long live my tendency to keep autosaves for a year :D )
 
Maybe one of our cities was accumulating 100+ GPP/turn?

So the "weaker city" got a normal GP (X GP points) and the "stronger" one got the next GP (aka X+100 GPP).
 
Yeup that was exactly the case. I went looking through my autosaves and then found that one city produced 180gpp a turn, so it began to dawn to me that I was actually being lucky. Then I went looking for an autosave of the game where I popped three, and sure enough, there was a city producing 100+ gpp and a city producing 200+ gpp, while my cap was the first to hit the next level with a modest amount of gpp. As the 200+ city (gp-farm with NE) was founded later then the 100+ city (glib+scientists), they popped in the right order to generate 3gp's in one turn (though the third was a 1% GA of course, but hey, you can't have it all, now can you)
 
I guess I'm leary of running the EP slider...

The question is will we gain back those turns spent on EP by taking Kyoto?

The capture gold will help...forcing Toku to give up tech in a peace treaty would help.
EDIT:Capturing most of Toku's land will also help.

Also, once we tech Alpha, even if we whip out spies on the very same turn it will take about 10 turns for the spies to get to Kyoto and receive the 50% discount. Have we factored that into our warplans????
 
Why the obsession with Kyoto? If we can take Toku´s other cities and leave a few axes next to Kyoto Toku will spam archers and tech little until we´re ready for the coup de grace. Eventually we can stomp Kyoto with a few trebs and axes.

edit: If Kyoto´s been given a castle it could also have been given LBs!
 
For that matter we could of course simply do the tech race without invading Toku or Hammu, they probably will invade us at some point but its always cheaper to defend than attack (as long as the defenders are prebuilt). Once we´ve got a miltary advantage through our caste-rep specialist economy we can go on the offensive.
 
:whew: am I happy that Sengir caught my mistake! You have to be careful of us number crunchers - we can make the numbers work everytime!

Alpha from the Oracle sounds good too.

It appears like its time for more testing.
 
Why the obsession with Kyoto? If we can take Toku´s other cities and leave a few axes next to Kyoto Toku will spam archers and tech little until we´re ready for the coup de grace. Eventually we can stomp Kyoto with a few trebs and axes.

edit: If Kyoto´s been given a castle it could also have been given LBs!

I think if the enemy had LB's wouldn't the demographics screen or power rating have shown that?

Our obsession with Kyoto is two-fold.

1)It is a capital and likely to be a strong city site. Especially considering it was presettled. Fingers still crossed for a GP farm type city.

2)If we are completing a military victory (which it still seems we are leaning toward), then the sooner we start the sooner we finish.

Fingers crossed I get some time to test this weekend. I was out of town last weekend and have only finished one test. I didn't mention it because it wasn't very good.
 
I've tested some things in the test-save with regards to EP (following the guide):
Base cost is 650
Distance modifier for Osaka is +11%, for Kyoto +16%
There's no trade route or religion modifier in place.
The spending modifier is hard to determine, but in should be in our favor if we focus on Toku from now on. Let's set it at 100% for a worst-case scenario
That means Kyoto will cost 754 EP before discount. With 5 turns delay-discount, we're looking at 377EP. We have 108 atm, at 4EP/turn, it will take us 68 turns before we'll be able to revolt Kyoto (of course, running EP-slider will cut this way back, if we start running the slider the moment Alpha is in, we should have enough EP once the spies are in place with discount). We should make sure that our the Cap, CrabMarble and GF are poised for spy building though. If we're going for this...
That's surely more EP needed than I was hoping for. However, if we have Oracle around T63 and dow near T80, upping the spy slider during that time should be sufficient. Good that a failed spy mission doesn't cost EP (right?)... It does mean we can't upgrade warriors though while also we'd have a significant delay in tech progress.

We definitely need more testing!
 
Here's some more EP calculating madness:

Code:
Year           Toku                   Hammu
3560BC         40/30                  10/2
3200BC         74/48                  55/20
3040BC         80/56                  75/28
2720BC         88/72                  101/44
2000BC         114/108                119/80
From 3560 to 3200 is 9 turns. Toku put 34 EP on us during that period. That means he's put 11 EP on someone else. However, Hammu put all his 45 EP on us during that period, and the next block (until 3040BC) as well, ergo Hammu hadn't met Toku at that point (or was focusing on us instead, but I find that unlikely). Conclusion: Toku has met another AI.

However, there's more:
If you look at the EP point spreading, you'll notice that in case of rounding, the topmost AI will get the extra point. The order of the AI's is simply the playerID, which means that we should be the first on the list for the AI (I'm not 100% on this, but close).
That means that if Toku has met 1 AI in the period between 3560 and 3200, he should be spending either 5ep on us (met no-one) or 3ep (met 1 AI).
That doesn't add up: 5+5+5+3+3+3+3+3+3 = 33 and 5+5+5+5+3+3+3+3+3 = 35
So unless there's some focus going on, there's another AI.
Continuing, in the period 3200-3040, he's only spending 6EP on us spread over 4turns, that's two turns of 2EP and 2 turns of 1EP. From 3040 until 2720 it's exactly 1EP/turn. Only in the period 2720-2000 he switches: 26ep over 18 turns (16 turns of 1, 2x5? we might want to check the autosaves for that).

Then Hammu:
Until 3040 Hammu put all his EP on us. From 3040 until 2720, he put 26 EP on us (in 8 turns). That's 1 turn of 5ep, followed by 7 of 3ep, which means Hammu met Toku in 3000BC. However, I wouldn't discount the possibility that Hammu met someone else as well, as from 2720 until 2000 (18 turns), there's only 18ep put on us. Other possibility is that he put 4EP/turn on Toku (maybe the AI wants to equalize?)

I do find it hard to believe that Toku focused on us, then stopped, then refocused on us, though if the AI wants to equalize it might be possible. I find it even harder to believe that Hammu met Toku between 3560 and 3200, but didn't put any EP on him. I'd have to check the code for the EP-focus stuff of the AI to be 100% sure, but I'm pretty certain that there's room for AI contact beyond Toku.
 
Addendum: I really would like to see the autosave EP-counts for the last couple of turns. If Toku is spending 5ep/turn on us, the spending factor is going to be above 100%, meaning we'll have to pay extra for a revolt .
 
I love the fact that Sengir's posts make no sense to me after drinking 5 beers tonight :lol::cheers:
 
It's quite interesting though when you sober up! :) :beer:

I'm afraid I don't have the autosaves anymore. It's been nearly 2 weeks since my set, they must've been overwritten.
 
Top Bottom