SGOTM 15 - Maple Sporks

I can agree with that.
 
Agree with pretty much everything except you haven't provided (at least iirc) any thoughts on scouting & fogbusting...

EDIT: We have officially overtaken PD in the # of posts :D
 
Oh god, we're freakin' spamalots!

I think I mentioned something about fogbusting, 1 warrior to go to northern deer (1W IIRC). Other one to go to gems, after settling the spot it can go south. I'll keep warrior in Golden Fleece for a bit, don't want to be surprised by a human barb in 10 turns from now without city protection nor slavery yet...
Our farthest warrior's task is to locate Babylon (size 6 already!).

Anyway, I'm open to suggestions ofc.
 
Is Golden Fleece going warrior or worker or monument first? Somehow I missed it.

Plan sounds good.

I tried a few test runs earlier and in one of them Toku of Sumeria went WHEOOHRN pretty early. Of course, the real save might not allow them access to us yet.
 
Once GF is settled warrior can probably head east to scout before Toku´s border pop (T50 iirc), next warrior from Das kapital can cover GF.

There´s usually a gap between barbs spawning and barbs crossing borders so we should be ok.
 
I'd scout with the GF-warrior as well, unless you've spotted human barbs by then.
 
@Norvin, GF to build warrior.

I'll see about scouting with the current GF warrior. Thing is, in the test save I had a human barb warrior next to the city the turn after we settled. It actually ate the pasturing worker, which confirmed my vague memory about barbs entering city limits immediately if presented with a soft target. That's another reason to keep warrior near GF, at least initially: worker protection. Maybe after sheep is done it can start walking further, as gold is on the safer side of the empire.
 
I'm fine with the proposed plan.

I think getting trade routes up is very important. Since we'll probably never have OBs, we won't have foreign trade routes, which means less income! To maintain a decent research rate (which we also need to do!!, since there will be hardly any trading), we need the connections and the golds/gems... Might actually be that Neilmeister put them there to help us a little... Would an overseas city in the west be good for overseas traderoutes? Maybe after currency...
 
Plan sounds good.

My only question would be this...and I'm at work so I can't test it out.

Would we get the road network completed faster if we don't build the mine directly after the sheep pasture. If I am following your city numbers it indicates that we won't work the gold tile until turn 13 anyways. And your plan finishes the gold mine on T9.

If we can finish the trade network sooner and still have the mine done by the time Golden Fleece is ready to work the tile, isn't that going to give us a better result?

I would be cautious of scouting too far to our east. I'm not saying don't do it...just be wary of protecting our fleece from the barbs. Which I am sure you will.
 
I very much like the thinking, sturick, but I don't think it works out. Assuming pasture first, that one finishes on T7, we grow on T9 and mine finishes on T12. So mine is not finished for 3 turns after growing (working forest meanwhile). We can get the TR faster but at the expense of getting gold later. Since that's 7 or 8 commerce vs 2 from TRs getting gold up faster wins out. Besides 2nd worker comes too late to get TRs significantly faster.

Will play in 2 hours approx... Will check thread again before starting just in case.
 
Good luck.

Don-t walk into any barbs.

I second this motion...

My fingers are crossed for Copper....in Stone Hill's BFC...on one of the established mines...:D
 
No uranium discovered yet!
My fingers are crossed for Copper....in Stone Hill's BFC...on one of the established mines...:D
2 out of 3: we have copper and it's in Stone Hill's BFC, but not on an established mine. Not entirely surprisingly it's next to the FP so that if you settle on marble you get it as well.

Anyway, the set went more or less according to plan. First of all, the lion didn't hassle our settler, however, Toku settled 1 turn before we would rather close to our prospective site. But he didn't invalidate it. ;) As I deemed it unwise to chicken out, decided to be a man about it and settle as planned. However, now I was REALLY hoping for copper. :D



I also took the executive decision to build a monument straight off the bat instead of a warrior. Clearly there's likely not too much to scout (though we still might want to try and slip a warrior past the red borders if possible) while the culture battle is obviously on. Note that with the full BFC this is a power house of a city.

Then I made a small judgement error with the new worker. Instead of moving it directly on the deer from the cap where he got built, I thought I had a moment of divine inspiration and could optimize by moving 2 tiles east, investing 1 turn in a road and then next turn move onto deer and immediately road it. I hadn't realized however that the deer is forested, and a forested hill costs 3 movement points, not 2. :smoke: Not major, but well, that cost 1 turn of TR income.

Our warrior in the very north west found more mountains and the Babylonian borders. He then ran into a barb archer and perished.

Other warrior got stationed 1W of the deer north of the cap. He won a battle with a barb warrior and a lion.

Yet another one guarded the gem spot from the south and spent good deal of the set healing. He just went SE as the gem-settler got into place.

After that settler was done decided to do an extra warrior before continuing settler. That warrior is in the capital still.

In Golden Fleece we finished the monument and continued with a worker. The worker present just finished the grass hill mine and should go mine the bronze. The other worker is near the gem spot, currently roading in anticipation of improving pigs and gems.

Christianity got founded. That must have been from poly, as we took hindu from med. :crazyeye:

Some visual aids to this might help.

Far North West:



Hindu turf:



I didn't revolt to slavery yet. We can do that any moment since we're spiritual of course.

I queued masonry as a place holder. However, priesthood and pottery also got things going for them. Here's where we are technologically:



Obviously a lot will depend on the wonders we want. However, with Osaka where it is, I increasingly like pigswill's favourite wonder as well, the SoD. :hammer:

The save.

Spoiler Turn Log :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 2720 BC to 2000 BC:


Turn 35, 2600 BC: Golden Fleece has been founded.

Turn 37, 2520 BC: Barbarian's Lion (2.00) vs Gandhi's Warrior 3 (Stone Hill) (3.70)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Combat Odds: 1.2%
Turn 37, 2520 BC: (Animal Combat: +10%)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 3 (Stone Hill) is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 3 (Stone Hill) has defeated Barbarian's Lion!

Turn 39, 2440 BC: Barbarian's Lion (2.00) vs Gandhi's Warrior 4 (Stone Hill) (2.70)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Combat Odds: 21.3%
Turn 39, 2440 BC: (Animal Combat: +10%)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 4 (Stone Hill) is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 4 (Stone Hill) is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 4 (Stone Hill) is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 4 (Stone Hill) is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 4 (Stone Hill) is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 4 (Stone Hill) has defeated Barbarian's Lion!
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Barbarian's Archer (3.00) vs Gandhi's Warrior (2.00)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Combat Odds: 92.7%
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Gandhi's Warrior is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Gandhi's Warrior is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Gandhi's Warrior is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Gandhi's Warrior is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Gandhi's Warrior is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Barbarian's Archer has defeated Gandhi's Warrior!

Turn 40, 2400 BC: You have discovered The Wheel!

Turn 47, 2120 BC: Christianity has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 48, 2080 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Gandhi's Warrior 3 (Stone Hill) (3.50)
Turn 48, 2080 BC: Combat Odds: 3.3%
Turn 48, 2080 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 48, 2080 BC: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 48, 2080 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 48, 2080 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 3 (Stone Hill) is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 48, 2080 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 3 (Stone Hill) is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 48, 2080 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 3 (Stone Hill) is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 48, 2080 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 48, 2080 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 48, 2080 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 48, 2080 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 3 (Stone Hill) has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 48, 2080 BC: While defending, your Warrior 3 (Stone Hill) has killed a Barbarian Warrior!

Turn 49, 2040 BC: You have discovered Bronze Working!
Turn 49, 2040 BC: You have discovered a source of Copper near Stone Hill!
 
Excellent job, nocho! It appears that we are in a great position. However it's probably time that we stop and think a bit more thoroughly about the next few turns. They will most likely be the most crucial part of this game.

To rush or not to rush...that is the great question for us right now.

Which wonders if any?

Fishing or Engineering beeline?

If Oracle then what do we take as our freebie (btw. if we want a safe Oracle we should probably start making effort right now, which means either Priesthood or Writing)

Which cities do we settle next? (This kind of relates to the other questions)

... which also reminds me that my original dotmap is obsolete. We should probably devise a new one. I'll try to come up with something tomorrow.

There are just soooo many options now...

Lastly, it's about the time too that we should start thinking about our long-term strategy here. My personal favourite would be Domination once again. Conquest might be a bit too slow with 9 AIs and no vassals allowed. I wonder if a pre-astronomy domination victory is available.
 
The earliest I can take the safe and contribute is Thursday evening. IF that's too late , please swap me, but I think we can have some discussion before going into the details
 
Don't worry DS, with all the diverging possibilities from this point onward, I think it'll take at least a full week before we should continue. :)

An updated test save would be good. If Norvin can do that, that'd be great. Otherwise I'll try to replay my turns this evening and adjust the testmap accordingly.
 
I think we should take down Tokugawa pretty much as soon as possible.

He is located in our natural habitat and too close for comfort. Hostilities with Toku being him and in another religion are inevitable anyway so better declare on our terms (and hopefully before he starts plotting war himself and spamming units). Also as we can't raze cities better take him out asap before he settles too many inhospitable spots.

If we would spend hammers on axes and barracks, obviously we'll have to prioritize wonders. First hunch of importance of wonders would be:

pyramids > oracle > great wall > stonehenge

In fact, by now I'd discard Stonehenge completely. Mids can wait a bit probably (IIRC no wonders have been built yet and we have stone), so I'd concentrate on the Oracle. I like the idea of Oracling CoL to have early access to caste in combination with representation. I can see us switching between slavery and caste with certain frequency. Caste/rep might keep our research alive when our empire starts ballooning. GWall is nice, but I can live without it. Then again with stone it's only just over 2 axes... (150h/2 vs 2*35h)

A possible idea is roughly the following:
* The new settler being produced in SH goes and settles 1SW of marble. With banana, crab and 4 hills it will eventually be a pretty decent city. In the short run the interest is getting marble online.
* The workers from GF (the current one and the one being produced) connect bronze first and then marble.
* Tech goes masonry - PH - pottery - writing.
* Capital after settler concentrates on barracks and axes, but builds Oracle as soon as marble is online and PH is in. Assuming bronze and the remaining hill mined it has 16 base hammers, which means a 5 turn Oracle (150h/2).
* Golden Fleece also concentrates on barracks + axes. Maybe somewhere an extra worker for some chopping and mining once the borders pop (really hoping to steal the corn at least temporarily, it would allow for some whipping).
* Pearly Swine (or however we'll call it) concentrates on becoming a commercial centre -> after gem and pig we cottage the river tiles. Try to get a library here asap.
* Marble/banana/crab looks production focused too (naval centre later maybe, possible Moai though there may be more watery places). We'll have to decide now on the engineering sling, i.e. if we don't go for it teching fishing quickly would be good. Otherwise we need some farms.

How many axes would we need for rushing Toku? He is protective of course. I guess at least 10 or so to start with. The capital with bronze + the remaining mine can produce 2 turn axes. GF if it grows a bit more will have a decent output too.

Miscellaneous task: produce a settler to block Hammuragawa somewhere along the bridge. Where? Beyond the wheat there's nothing noteworthy, so maybe SE of it?

I'm kind of hoping that Toku's capital will provide us with a nice or at least reasonable GP farm...
 
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