SGOTM 15 - Maple Sporks

Cities:
StoneHill: Mids; Works Corn+FP until growth; at size 3 also work copper; at size 4 also work farm; at size 5 work 3hills, copper + farm
GoldenFleece: Oracle > Settler
PearlySwine: warrior > part axe until libwriting is in > Library
MarbleHill: Barracks > Axe > Settler

Workers:
PearlySwineWorker: Pasture > Farm
CapWorker (West of Deer): Help chopping, then return to cap for Farming + mining
MarbleHillWorker: Mine the hills (first E of MH, then W)
GF-worker: chop, chop, chop, help CapWorker

Tech:
Writing > (Oracle CoL) > Math > Hunting



This is the basic plan, but a lot depends on the following question:
Do we put 2 or 3 chops into the Oracle. The difference will be about 5 turns. In case of 3 chops, only GF will be able to run scientist right away (though it will be at size 4, though not optimally as it doesn't work the gold then). I prefer to put two chops into it; it will leave the capworker available for farming the cap, speeding up its growth, which in turn means earlier growth for MarbleHill (and earlier Mids).

I also doubt that Math will be in time for the Mids, haven't played that far with exact micro yet. Still, it will help out with production regardless.
 
So you will play till lib, huh... :eek: ;)

Plan sounds good. Not entirely sure about getting settler from marblehill, but will defer to you. How big is the city at that point? Will it receive many chops?

Am inclined for Oracle asap if that's achieved with 3 chops. More chance to flip Osaka...

I'd play until CoL so we can study better when to go caste exactly. Fine with me if you then play on till math/mids.
 
That'll depend on where we want to run scientists for GS's. But that's better planned with Oracle done/CoL in. If we're running three scientists in the city (at size four, it can support three scientists, working only the Corn), I'm thinking of putting two chops into a settler; probably put a chop into the settler at GoldenFleece as well.... not sure yet.
 
Plan until Oracle (3 chops into Oracle):

Cities:
StoneHill: Mids; Works Corn+FP until growth; at size 3 also work copper; at size 4 also work mine (as until farm is done); at size 5 work 3hills, copper + farm
GoldenFleece: Oracle
PearlySwine: warrior > part axe
MarbleHill: Barracks

Workers:
PearlySwineWorker: Pasture > Farm
CapWorker (West of Deer): Help chopping at GF
GF-worker: chop, chop, chop, help CapWorker
MarbleHillWorker: a) farm 1N of MarbleHill or b) farm 1E of StoneHill
I'm in favor of b), as it means that the cap-farm is done sooner (the cap worker needs to help the GF-worker to get the chops done in time), which in turn allows for quicker growth of the cap, which means MarbleHill can get the Corn sooner.

Tech:
Writing > (Oracle CoL) > Math


I'll wait for some more reactions (on the MarbleHillWorker and on the number of chops into the Oracle), and play tomorrow.
 
Agree with b-option for MH worker.

In general also fine with all chops that go to wonders and settlers. Anything that speeds those up, helps overall progress. For chops into axes better wait for maths, so to speak.

And by the way, indeed judaism should have been founded regularly from monotheism. In my set christianity was founded, which must've been through poly, as we took hindu from med. However, if both the tech and the religion are "free", the usual religions must be founded. If we're first to CoL and philo (quite likely), the queue for theology must be that someone founds islam... That is if theology goes after we bulb philo, otherwise a tao FIADL could happen which likely would be due to theo, not philo. :crazyeye:
 
I agree with the 3 chop Oracle...especially if it means a 5 turn difference. That's 40 culture to push on Osaka.

I also agree with the B-option for the worker. Without access to the save it sounds like it will help speed up production on the Mids. Sooner we reach size 5 the sooner we emphasize hammers.

Will look at the save tonight...I have proven more than once this SGOTM that I need to reference the save to more accurately comment on the situation.
 
I'll have to look at it tonight...but would it make sense to time some chops into the Mids at the last second for stone bonus/math bonus overflow into our military buildup?
 
Bad news: Oracle BIDL :(

Turn 8 (cont):
Nothing really

Turn 9:
PearlySwine: Warrior > Axe
The barb warrior has moved towards GF, so I'm whipping another warrior. I'd rather not lose this city.
The barb warrior also screws up the micro :( Let's see what I can make of it.

Turn 10:
Gold mine got pillaged :(

Turn 11:
Finally the warrior attacks

Turn 12:
Getting the road back up for Marble bonus

Turn 13:
Writing in, set tech to math
Hindu spreads in MarbleHill.
Oracle BIDL; missed it by a turn, due to the barb warrior.

The Save
 
D@mn. :(

Let's not lose the mids too.

I guess at least the fail gold will let us get faster to construction so we can satisfy our rage over Toku.

We'll need at least 2 libraries asap in GF and PS for hiring scientists.
 
Well that is disheartening...not that there was much you could have done about it Sengir.

This is a setback but definitely not one that can't be overcome.

Let's work towards Construction and taking out Toku.
 
Well, there are about 6 things I could have done differently, but only with hindsight those are good ideas.

Anyway, the disappointment is mostly out of my system (quick duel map vs Toku did wonders for that).

What's the plan now? Self-tech CoL or whip in libraries? The failgold should help us get CoL quickly, I think, but I'm not sure whether it might be better to get Math instead.

Also, do we want to gift a tech to Toku in the hopes of getting him to a position in which he's willing to trade alpha?
 
I'm pretty sure its almost impossible to get Toku to trade anything and not worth the effort. Pyramids should still be ok, libraries and rep should help with research. We still have to decide if we're going for 6 city engineering or 4 city construction.

Losing Oracle is a classic example of luck deciding games, if the barb hadn't randomly popped where it did its likely that we'd have got Oracle already.
 
just a quick word that I'm finding time only a few times per week to read the forum, but I'm trying to stay with you. Bad luck on the Oracle, 1 turn, that sucks!
 
Hmmm, so much for that plan. Not much you could do Sengir with the barb running around.

Getting construction seems to be a good plan now.

One thing we need to consider about Osaka is that it might become Toku's capital after we take Kyoto (keeping my fingers crossed) in which case we'll probably lose the corn tile. I guess it depends on what his 3rd city looks like.
 
Are you handing it over Sengir, or will you play a couple more turns? pigswill would be up after you. Or did we all just lost motivation for this?
 
I was planning on playing some more turns, but I've tried to get the test-save done, and failed, so there's that.

I'm also not sure which way to go with the techpath. Do we want CoL anyway, or do we try it without?
 
IIRC we have about 130 hammers in the Oracle so presumably that translates to 130 fail gold. When I checked CoL was 14 or 15 turns at full science throttle, but with 130 gold we can maintain that for about 10/11 turns only. So CoL would be 18-ish turns. If the idea is to attack Toku, I don't think we can afford delaying the DoW by this many turns. Maths on the other hand seems just doable at full speed with the cash from the Oracle. So my hunch is that our best shot is to go math, then crawl to construction. If meanwhile we get those libraries out in GF and PS and get the mids, that crawl to construction will be speeded up enough to still have construction fairly soon.

I'm thinking that with math in 10/11 turns (IIRC) we might pre-chop the forests we want to put into the mids and the turn we get maths do a concerted effort to get all those forests chopped by several workers for the math bonus.

Beyond construction tech wise, we might just go currency, though if engineering is still on our minds of course we'll need alpha, aesthetics and IW. With MC too, we'd need just 2 scientists for the engineering sling. The "advantage" of not having Oracle is that we need not "fear" popping a great priest, although it'll mean self-teching theo. Anyhow, if we're succesfull with the Toku campaign conquest cash should help us get part of these techs.

Maybe you can play till math+mids. :)
 
By the way, agree with pigswill that it's highly unlikely we get Toku to trade anything with us. He'll share religion bonus with other AIs, so I doubt that a fair trade bonus would be enough even for him to drop our worst enemy status. And if he would, I think he still wouldn't trade until pleased, Toku being Toku.
 
Sengir, does the test save just need to be updated to run through for practice?

Yes, though I was having trouble with figuring out how to work in the Oracle failgold.
 
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