SGOTM 15 - Maple Sporks

Thanks for the input, I'll play tomorrow (I prefer to be sober for this game ;) ). Any suggestions for the upcoming GS?
 
Settle GS in Kyoto?

If we're get fishing and/or MC is it worth building a boat to check out the western approaches?
 
Maybe golden age is an option too. Possibly with some caste mixed in to get new great people in return.

Some scout boats given the chance will be useful.
 
Not sure about a GA at this point, I think we'll see some heavy whipping in the turns to come.
 
Yeah, wasn't totally hot on it either, but there's no clear best imo. If at some point we think we want to squeeze out great people with caste, courtesy of being spiritual, temporary pacifism makes sense and hence philo bulb. But I'm equally okay with settling (kyoto), acad (GF had the other settled GS, right?) or GA.
 
Turn 0:
Set tech to Pottery
Revolt to OR
Switch SH to missonary.
Pillage a village to get enough gold to get Pottery in one turn.
Move some units in the hope that they get past Tokyo next turn when I make peace.

Turn 1:
Pottery in, set tech to Aesthetics
Dial up Toku: he won't give us all his techs :( In the end I settled for Alpha and MC, as that was worth the most turn of research. None of our units got beyond Tokyo unfortunately, so we're pretty much in the dark in that regard.

Turn 2:
PS: HT > HM

Turn 3:
SH: Mish > Mish
MH: HM > Mish
CC: HT > HM
DG: Spear > Rax

Turn 4:
Spread Hindu in DG

Turn 5:
SH: Mish > Cat
GF: HT > HM
DG: Rax > HT
GS Born

Turn 6:
PS: HM > Market (We need some gold asap)
MH: Mish > Wealth
Satsuma: Monument > CH

Turn 7:
CC: HM > Grab
Osaka: CH > HT
Spread Hindu in Osaka
PS: Wealth > Cat

Turn 8:
Horns sound:
Ghengigawa, Elizagawa and Hatsegawa declare on Tokugawa

SH: Cat > Cat

Turn 9:
GF: HM > Cat
Spread Hindu in Kyoto

Turn 10:
CC: Gran > Cat
GS settles in Kyoto

Turn 11
SH: Cat > Cat
PS: Market > Cat
Revolt to Theocracy

Turn 12:
GF: Cat > Cat
CC: Cat > Cat
Shakagawa declares on Toku as well.
GLib bidl

I'll stop here.
We can redeclare on Toku this turn. The cats are on their way, but we might want to move our stack towards Tokyo to make sure we get it, instead of one of the AI's (although they haven't managed to capture the other city yet.

We really should think about our long term finances. I think we need to get a market up in GF, DG and GF as well. And we might want to run a Priest in SH instead of a Scientists in the hopes of popping a GPriest for a Shrine.

The Save
Spoiler logs :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 75 AD to 375 AD:

Turn 118, 75 AD: Gandhi adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 118, 75 AD: You have discovered Pottery!

Turn 119, 100 AD: You have made peace with Tokugawa!
Turn 119, 100 AD: You have discovered Metal Casting!
Turn 119, 100 AD: You have discovered Alphabet!
Turn 119, 100 AD: You have constructed a Hindu Temple in PearlySwine. Work has now begun on a Axeman.
Turn 119, 100 AD: Chichen Itza has been built in a far away land!

Turn 120, 125 AD: Shakagawa adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 120, 125 AD: Al-Khwarizmi (Great Scientist) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 122, 175 AD: Hinduism has spread in DeerGold.
Turn 122, 175 AD: Aristotle (Great Scientist) has been born in PearlySwine (Gandhi)!
Turn 122, 175 AD: The Parthenon has been built in a far away land!
Turn 122, 175 AD: Elizagawa adopts Mercantilism!

Turn 123, 200 AD: Jeanne d'Arc (Great Prophet) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 124, 225 AD: The borders of Osaka have expanded!
Turn 124, 225 AD: The borders of Satsuma have expanded!

Turn 125, 250 AD: Hinduism has spread in Osaka.
Turn 125, 250 AD: Hatsegawa has declared war on Tokugawa!
Turn 125, 250 AD: Hatsegawa adopts Hereditary Rule!
Turn 125, 250 AD: Hatsegawa adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 125, 250 AD: Elizagawa has declared war on Tokugawa!
Turn 125, 250 AD: Genghigawa has declared war on Tokugawa!
Turn 125, 250 AD: James Clerk Maxwell (Great Scientist) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 126, 275 AD: Hatsegawa converts to Christianity!

Turn 127, 300 AD: Hinduism has spread in Kyoto.

Turn 128, 325 AD: Golden Fleece can hurry Catapult for 1⇴ with 20ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 128, 325 AD: PearlySwine has grown to size 6.
Turn 128, 325 AD: PearlySwine can hurry Market for 2⇴ with 34ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 11 turns.
Turn 128, 325 AD: Cowcamp has grown to size 8.
Turn 128, 325 AD: Kyoto has grown to size 4.
Turn 128, 325 AD: Osaka will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 128, 325 AD: The secrets of Monotheism were stolen by enemy infiltrators!
Turn 128, 325 AD: Tokugawa adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 128, 325 AD: Bi Sheng (Great Engineer) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 128, 325 AD: The Apostolic Palace voting members have announced their decision: Apostolic Palace Election (Winner Proposes Apostolic Palace Resolutions) (Requires 43 of 108 Total Votes)

Turn 129, 350 AD: Stone Hill will become unhealthy on the next turn.
Turn 129, 350 AD: MarbleHill can hurry Catapult for 1⇴ with 38ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 129, 350 AD: Cowcamp can hurry Catapult for 1⇴ with 32ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 129, 350 AD: Osaka has grown to size 4.
Turn 129, 350 AD: Kyoto can hurry Courthouse for 2⇴ with 11ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 129, 350 AD: Shakagawa has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 129, 350 AD: Genghigawa has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 129, 350 AD: Gandhi adopts Theocracy!
Turn 129, 350 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Kyoto.
Turn 129, 350 AD: Stone Hill will grow to size 9 on the next turn.
Turn 129, 350 AD: MarbleHill will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 129, 350 AD: Deal Canceled: Peace Treaty (10 Turns) to Tokugawa for Peace Treaty (10 Turns)
Turn 129, 350 AD: You have discovered Aesthetics!
Turn 129, 350 AD: You have trained a Catapult in MarbleHill. Work has now begun on a Catapult.
Turn 129, 350 AD: Hammuragawa's Chariot (4.40) vs Gandhi's Axeman 1 (MarbleHill) (6.00)
Turn 129, 350 AD: Combat Odds: 20.9%
Turn 129, 350 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 129, 350 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 129, 350 AD: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 129, 350 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 129, 350 AD: (Class Attack: -100%)
Turn 129, 350 AD: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 129, 350 AD: Hammuragawa's Chariot is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 129, 350 AD: Gandhi's Axeman 1 (MarbleHill) is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 129, 350 AD: Hammuragawa's Chariot is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 129, 350 AD: Hammuragawa's Chariot is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 129, 350 AD: Gandhi's Axeman 1 (MarbleHill) is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 129, 350 AD: Hammuragawa's Chariot is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 129, 350 AD: Gandhi's Axeman 1 (MarbleHill) is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 129, 350 AD: Gandhi's Axeman 1 (MarbleHill) is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 129, 350 AD: Hammuragawa's Chariot is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 129, 350 AD: Gandhi's Axeman 1 (MarbleHill) has defeated Hammuragawa's Chariot!
Turn 129, 350 AD: While defending, your Axeman 1 (MarbleHill) has killed a Babylonian Chariot!
Turn 129, 350 AD: Shakagawa has declared war on Tokugawa!
Turn 129, 350 AD: The Great Library has been built in a far away land!

Turn 130, 375 AD: Stone Hill has grown to size 9.
Turn 130, 375 AD: Stone Hill has become unhealthy.
Turn 130, 375 AD: Stone Hill can hurry Catapult for 1⇴ with 22ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 130, 375 AD: PearlySwine can hurry Catapult for 1⇴ with 26ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 19 turns.
Turn 130, 375 AD: MarbleHill has grown to size 8.
Turn 130, 375 AD: You are the worst enemy of Shakagawa.
Turn 130, 375 AD: Elizagawa is the worst enemy of Tokugawa.
Turn 130, 375 AD: The borders of MarbleHill are about to expand.
Turn 130, 375 AD: Hammuragawa will trade Literature
 
Some extra points:
Hammu is willing to settle for peace (previously he wanted DG for it, but he suicided a chariot and it's a straight up deal)
Hammu settled a city on our doorstep.
I think we should keep up the Hammu war: it isn't costing us a thing and it saves us some 'You declared war on our friend anger'.
 
So they all dogpiled poor Toku when he got out of bud... I think we should go and get Tokyo asap. Be prepared to be dogpile target after Toku disappears. In that sense it might be good to get rid of the buddhist cities of Babylon too.

Regarding finances, I think we'll need to have cities simply dedicated to wealth. Of course a few markets may help, but cities getting farther and farther away from the front could maybe better contribute with wealth.

Now that we have alpha maybe we can build some spies for scouting.

After literature I'd self tech fishing and IW and then move towards engineering. I'd still vote HE in DG.

The corn at GF/Osaka is not being worked! :eek::p

sturick is up (assuming computer works fine for next weekend), with pigswill on deck.
 
Btw, I'd sell meditation and aesthetics for some 250+ cash right now (including Toku before we declare, he's nobody's WE despite being in war with 4 others right now :crazyeye:), as well as make 2 resource deals for 11gpt.

Also, note Egypt became Christian! That looks like good news.
 
Nicely played Sengir!

I'll bet that triple horn scared the crap out of you!

As I pointed out earlier. Elizagawa is teching like mad! She learned Banking this set! She is going to be one tough nut to crack! I can only hope she is far, far away from us so we have a chance to catch up!

As of now I am on track to play on Saturday...I'll make a plan soon.
 
Minor point: northern fort is slightly pointless as it will become babylonian after first border pop. Stacking units on top of deer ain't bad, 50% forest and 25% river.

I'd take peace with Hammu myself, despite the future diplo hit our north is pretty vulnerable.

Exploration would be good, spy heading into babylonia, another north from Tokyo and trireme for the west.

Agree with nocho's trade deals.

If we dow on Toku next turn our cats ain't going to contribute much, axes hanging around Tokyo will cost maintenance without contributing anything, better to wait 3 turns for 3 cats.
 
The Corn isn't being worked because I was experimenting with the MM this turn and forgot to put everything back (I've been swapping it between Osaka and GF).

Agree on the trade-deals, that should keep us afloat for a while.

Egypt became Christian this turn IIRC, if he stays that way he'll be the next scapegoat (he'll have close border-tension and is a landtarget).


Regarding putting cities on Wealth: we should do that indeed, but they won't produce enough to keep us afloat atm. That's why I'm suggesting some extra markets, so that we can hire some merchants in case of need. Other than that, we're basically done with infra IMHO. (well, except for the Epics, I agree with DG > HE)

I also agree on the Techplan nocho proposed, that should be enough for sturicks turn set. After that we should start on Engineering I think.


About the triple horns: it took me a while to realize what happened. I didn't see any SoD's, so I initially thought that Hammu did some bribing, which had snowballed into a dogpile. But I could still talk all the AI's, and I wasn't at war. At that point I realized that I was playing as Ghandi, not Tokugawa :D
 
Btw, I'd sell meditation and aesthetics for some 250+ cash right now (including Toku before we declare, he's nobody's WE despite being in war with 4 others right now :crazyeye:), as well as make 2 resource deals for 11gpt.

Also, note Egypt became Christian! That looks like good news.

wasn't there something in the maintenance thread about the WE statusses not being reliable?
 
That was about WHEOOHRN status.
 
My tentative plan...keep in mind this is without viewing a save. (my computer should be back up and running tomorrow night...finally!) I'll update Thursday night. Time for feedback and final tweaks Friday with gameplay on Saturday.

Pregame-Sell techs for gold...we need the funds. I'll make the resource deals too. I'll avoid trading resources with Egypt so we don't have to break the deal when (hopefully) the other Tokus turn on them.

Techs-Fishing (we need a boat for Satsuma) then probably IW followed by Engineering. Those extra movement points will be quite helpful. I might skip IW just to get Engineering out sooner. Not sure yet.

If we make the tech trades we can delay a Toku declare to wait for the additional cats that pigswill mentioned. I'd rather come in with more units. Gives me the option of bombarding Tokyo's walls for a turn.

Civics-I'll probably stay in Theo for my set until the troop buildup is complete. Then back to OR for a round of courthouses/forges/etc. I might swap slavery for caste just to run merchants if need be.

City and worker builds will need to wait until I can access the save.
I'm not sure where to start building either of the epics. I'll need to look at the save for that.
DG makes sense for the HE because it can build ships if needed too.
 
If Toku weren't being gangbanged right now by his lookalikes, I'd agree on waiting for those cats before moving in. However, I'd rather not lose Tokyo to any of the other AIs so I think we should move in now. The city may well be less defended right now, or there might already be another AI pounding on the door. Our current stack may well be enough. If there is big defense, we can still wait for those cats. Imho a few turns of higher unit upkeep is inconsequential as compared to the risk of that city falling in the hands of any of the other AIs.
 
We don't have Lit yet, so we need to get that before starting the Epics. (maybe fishing first, though. Not completely sure). About where to put the epics: I like DG for HE, or MH (I don't think we need a lot of ships, unless I'm mistaken we only share that sea with Hammu, I could be wrong though). Kyoto looks like a decent candidate for NE, once we get Tokyo.

I wouldn't mind skipping IW on the way to engineering. I don't think we need another round of infra. Some forges might be nice, but we really should start the buildup for the northern stack. Southern stack should be sufficient with the cats on the way.

I'd declare right away as well. I'd like to minimize the risk of not getting Tokyo, as it is quite a decent city. The extra maintenance we can afford with the trades we're planning.
 
On board with Sengir and nocho about moving troops toward Tokyo. Perhaps we get lucky and Someoneagawa bombards the culture down for our axes. It's too good a city to not take a crack at.
Tech-wise - the sooner we get to Engineering the better.
HE for me in DeerGold just in case we need boats. I think Hammu has spread to a small island to our west.
 
My tentative plan...keep in mind this is without viewing a save. (my computer should be back up and running tomorrow night...finally!) I'll update Thursday night. Time for feedback and final tweaks Friday with gameplay on Saturday.
How is it going with the plan (and your computer!), sturick? :)
 
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